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  #1  
Old 11/23/2007, 07:19 PM
coralite coralite is offline
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Giant Purple Cespitularia

The stalks are as thick as acro branches I tell ya! I do not have any available so please just enjoy the pics.
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  #2  
Old 11/23/2007, 07:22 PM
Engine 7 Engine 7 is offline
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WoW! Really nice coral and great pictures
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  #3  
Old 11/23/2007, 08:28 PM
aninjaatemyshoe aninjaatemyshoe is offline
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No fair to tease us like this!!! I think I'll have to modify my top 10 most desired coral list.
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  #4  
Old 11/23/2007, 08:32 PM
coralmkr coralmkr is offline
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What you have there is an effloutaunaria. It self propagates by growing a foot or stolon. You can see more info on this thread:

this is a Cespitularia, right??.
Beautiful coral
  #5  
Old 11/24/2007, 11:30 AM
atzak atzak is offline
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whatever you call it, it's awesome. I have a few questions about, does it grow fast? Was it that color from the start, or has it changed? How long have you had it?
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  #6  
Old 11/24/2007, 11:40 AM
coralite coralite is offline
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I am not convinced that this coral is anything other than a larger species of cespitularia. Morphologically, this species propagate by an encrusting base just like cespit and then grows a stalk. Neither efflatournaria or cespitularia grow by stolons, this type of structure is reserved for stoloniferans such as green star polyps or clove polyps. This coral grows as fast as any xeniid and the color is true regardless of size.
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  #7  
Old 11/26/2007, 01:33 AM
Patwa Patwa is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by coralite
I am not convinced that this coral is anything other than a larger species of cespitularia. Morphologically, this species propagate by an encrusting base just like cespit and then grows a stalk. Neither efflatournaria or cespitularia grow by stolons, this type of structure is reserved for stoloniferans such as green star polyps or clove polyps. This coral grows as fast as any xeniid and the color is true regardless of size.

No. it is an efflatounaria...not many people have this coral, but the ones who do have it are pretty convinced that it's an efflatounaria.

i've got the same coral and it does grow by forming a stolon, in additon to the usual growth pattern attributed to xeniids (efflatounaria is a xeniid, just as with cesptiularia, as you prolly know already).

I've got pictures of my effla growing a stolon (see the link to my thread, above)....heck, one of my effla colonies is growing a stolon as I type this post!

Zach
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  #8  
Old 11/26/2007, 10:01 AM
coralite coralite is offline
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In coral morphology, stolons are reserve for describing corals which have retractile polyps. By definition, Xeniids have contractile polyps which cannot retract into the base. Most people who call this coral efflatournaria do so because that is what everybody else calls it. I like to think I was one of the first aquarist to have and identify a true effla over 4 yrs ago. I can tell you that it doesnt look like a giant cespitularia as this coral does.
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  #9  
Old 11/26/2007, 11:28 AM
Patwa Patwa is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by coralite
In coral morphology, stolons are reserve for describing corals which have retractile polyps. By definition, Xeniids have contractile polyps which cannot retract into the base. Most people who call this coral efflatournaria do so because that is what everybody else calls it. I like to think I was one of the first aquarist to have and identify a true effla over 4 yrs ago. I can tell you that it doesnt look like a giant cespitularia as this coral does.
question: has your "giant cespitularia" grown a foot/stolon/whatever like this



I see a few problems with what you're regurgitating from the books you've read (and what i'm about to state are just anecdotal, first hand eye-witness accounts, which, imo, are nothing less than tantamount to anything you read in a commercially available marine biology book (ie. books you can get from amazon and ebay, not graduate and Ph.D level texts)

1. Xeniids have many corals under that genus...and with regard to the retraction of the polyps....cespitularia and efflatounaria cannot retract their polyps fully into their base, as you noted....but other Xeniids DO have that ability, namely the (very) common red sea pink pulsing xenia and the seldomly available true Fiji pom-pom xenia.

2. You have it backwards....most people call this coral a cespitularia, (as you are, and even most of the people who responded to my thread)...the ones who have ID'd it as an efflatounaria are few and far between....in fact, Sanjay (the lighting guy here on RC) and myself are the only two people who are almost 100% confident this is some obscure efflatounaria variant.

2. What do you have to counter the statement made by A. Calfo and others that cespitularia is typified by the fact, that, as a species, it has minute spicules of calcium carbonate embedded in the tissue, giving them the unmistakable iridescence/sparkle that makes them so sought-aftered. This coral, what you call a 'giant cespitularia', and what I call an efflatounaria, is devoid of any spicules, from what I (and others can see).

Quote:
I like to think I was one of the first aquarist to have and identify a true effla over 4 yrs ago
I'm not sure what point you're trying to push across with that statement...if it's your coral ID'ing prowess, then yes, i'm impressed. But, FWIW, a "textbook" efflatounaria looks almost like a colt coral, but there are many, many morphs of efflas, which i believe is the one fact you're having a tough time swallowing.

Zach
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  #10  
Old 11/26/2007, 11:59 AM
coralite coralite is offline
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Patwa, FWIW, the pictures of the purple giant cespitularia were taken at Sanjay's house. I stayed there for several days and we frequently debated the identity of this coral. Coral ID is part of my business and when I tell Sanjay this coral is a cespit, he takes my word for it.
Unlike Calfo who is trained in Literature, I am trained in coral science, notably physiology, ecology and taxonomy. The texts I am using for referencing are published by University Press and Elsevier and not TFH/Microcosm.

We can agree to disagree but please don't try to undermine my stance on the ID by assuming you know what references I use.
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  #11  
Old 11/26/2007, 01:37 PM
Freed Freed is offline
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If ANYONE wants to sell a frag please let me know. Thanks
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  #12  
Old 11/26/2007, 02:00 PM
Grins Grins is offline
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It is beautiful regardless of the correct ID
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  #13  
Old 11/26/2007, 04:24 PM
Patwa Patwa is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by coralite
Patwa, FWIW, the pictures of the purple giant cespitularia were taken at Sanjay's house. I stayed there for several days and we frequently debated the identity of this coral. Coral ID is part of my business and when I tell Sanjay this coral is a cespit, he takes my word for it.
Unlike Calfo who is trained in Literature, I am trained in coral science, notably physiology, ecology and taxonomy. The texts I am using for referencing are published by University Press and Elsevier and not TFH/Microcosm.

We can agree to disagree but please don't try to undermine my stance on the ID by assuming you know what references I use.

don't undermine what? you are using absolutely no references at all in identifying this coral....that's the point...you're just going on your supposed amazing IDing skills in telling everyone that it's a 'giant cespitularia', when indeed, you really don't know (and neither do I for that matter!).....i'm going on my amazing ID'ing skills as well.....figure that!?!

...also, you're telling me that Sanjay has now changed his stance on it being an efflatounaria.....he posted on Oct 24 in my thread that my piece, which is identical to his, is an efflatounaria...and today, a month later, he now agrees with you that it is indeed a "Giant Cespitularia" OK then....you're very persuasive, i see.

as for it being Sanjay's piece....nice...maybe you should have made that clear, cuz i tell you what, when one posts a pic of coral, 99.9% of the people assume it's in your possession.....thanks for clearing that up.

Again....just for kicks, can you explain why my "Giant Cespitularia" is growing a foot/stolon, when it technically should not be based on your keen 'knowledge' of stoloniferans and what-not? and what about my points in my last response? do i make sense? or is that just hogwash as well?

I guess you've decided i'm not worth the debate ("we've agreed to disagree"...oh well...was worth a shot....g'day.

Zach
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  #14  
Old 11/26/2007, 04:28 PM
Patwa Patwa is offline
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those asking for frags...yes, i have lots of frags available, but as much as I would love to trade with you Yanks, i can't....i'm in Canada....border/permit issues are the prob.

best to contact someone local.

Zach
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65g + 30g (sump|fuge)
(skimmerless)
2x 175W SE (Iwasaki 15,000K)
Tunze 6045 & Modded MJ900
MAG 7 return via SCWD
Zoa-dominated, LPS, SPS, 4 fish
Xenia Refugium
  #15  
Old 11/26/2007, 05:56 PM
Sanjay Sanjay is offline
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I don't claim to have any expertise in coral id. So if some one more knowledgeable than me is willing to convince me otherwise I can admit that I could have been wrong. Soft coral taxonomy is far from easy, as was very evident in the talk at MACNA.

Yes, that is my coral.. and its pretty no matter what it eventually turns out to be. Nice picture, Jake.

sanjay.
  #16  
Old 11/26/2007, 08:30 PM
coralite coralite is offline
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Whatever it is, this coral is very pretty and unique. Patwa and I are taking the debate to our PMs to keep the thread clean.

Hey Sanjay,
if you bring down some samples of the purple giant cespit when you visit in January we can take a look at the spicules. We can also get some samples to Michael Janes and get his opinion in on this. I need to send him some samples of the "pulsing sinularia" anyway so let's work it out when you come down.
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  #17  
Old 11/26/2007, 08:33 PM
Freed Freed is offline
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I have plenty of pulsing sinularia, you guys want to sell me some or trade? Throw me a bone here fellas!! I been looking for this for a while.
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  #18  
Old 11/26/2007, 09:46 PM
imyoraven imyoraven is offline
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any us vendors have this for sale?
  #19  
Old 12/12/2007, 12:12 AM
bngowe bngowe is offline
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WEll there.. that's a very very gorgeous cespitularia/ efflatounaria piece you got there.. If you could send me a piece I would definitely help you guys define what it really is. =D
 

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