Italy's Best! Matured SPS Aquariums.

JohnL · #1 03/18/2007, 03:21 PM

This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...04#post9506904

class clown · #2 03/18/2007, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DarkXerox
[B]Translation:
Emh, my tank is also BB!
Let's clear something up for a second...
You use the sugar in these quantities and not in excess for stimulation the bacteria and therefore, together with the whole BC method brings a drop in nutrients thanks to the work of bacteria. If the phenomenons of STN or RTN are taking place, it means that the dosing is too low! Therefore you need to increase the dose of pappone...obviously in the tank there are already many oligotrophs, like zeovit, you need to avoid the use of sugar calmly. In the BC method, sugar is used in low quantities for the reasons I stated above, but the pappone in these cases in which are necessary, needs to be prepared calmly also without sugar.
------------------------------

I actually experienced my first case of RTN in 5 years. I attributed it to some heavy fragging and a pavona's sweeper tenticles getting too close to my prized acro, but now wondering if it could possibly be due the BC method that I've recently started trying too. I didn't think it would be related to the BC method, but then i read this quote above and it made me wonder some more.

Can we get some more in depth analysis on this translation. Should I be worried about RTN occuring on other corals? if it is possible that this RTN incident was related to the BC method (not saying it is), would your recomendation be for me to actually add more cubes at one time??? seems backwards - seems like I'd want to add less, right?

Thanks,
Ben

Sir · #3 03/18/2007, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by class clown
I actually experienced my first case of RTN in 5 years. I attributed it to some heavy fragging and a pavona's sweeper tenticles getting too close to my prized acro, but now wondering if it could possibly be due the BC method that I've recently started trying too. I didn't think it would be related to the BC method, but then i read this quote above and it made me wonder some more.

Can we get some more in depth analysis on this translation. Should I be worried about RTN occuring on other corals? if it is possible that this RTN incident was related to the BC method (not saying it is), would your recomendation be for me to actually add more cubes at one time??? seems backwards - seems like I'd want to add less, right?

Thanks,
Ben

Ciao Ben.

No. il metodo se usato seguendo quelle poche regole che sono riportate nell'articolo non porta a RTN.
hai controllato i nitrati e fosfati?
probabilmente il problema è un altro...
non aumentare l'alimentazione, porterebbe ancora a problemi.
inserisci carbone attivo e misura attentamente i nutrienti.
quando hai preparato il pappone, hai rispettato le quantità scritte nell'articolo??
hai aggiunto altre cose che li non sono indicate?
hai qualche foto da mostrarmi?
mi indichi per bene la quantità di pappone che usi, i litri della tua vasca e la popolazione di coralli e pesci?
le cose vanno fatte sempre gradualmente.
non credete che i coralli inizino a crescere e colorarsi in 1 settimana.
ci vuole tempo e costanza...e sopratutto una corretta gestione della quantità di pappone immesso.

ciao Fabio

docwells · #4 03/19/2007, 07:49 AM

Has anyone had a hard time keeping their alkalinity up since they started the BC method? My tank is BB and I had slowly ramped up all the paramters to match what was posted for the method. I started off feeding pappone once a week and now I am up to three times a week. My alkalinity use has skyrocketed. I assume it is due to coral uptake and impending growth as I do not see aloot of growth to the naked eye. I am waiting on a replacement calcium reactor and I am currently using B-ionic. I was using 65 ml daily in my tank when I started the BC method and today I am up to 180 ml's and I do not think that is going to keep up. My alk yesterday was 4.28 and today it is 3.66 by salifert test. I used 120 ml of B-ionic yesterday. I guess I need to speed along that calcium reactor.

bogg · #5 03/19/2007, 10:35 PM

Same boat, increased ca and alk demand. Obviously assuming increased growth. I can see a small growth increase this last week. First time I have ever thought of adding a ca. reactor.

DarkXerox · #6 03/21/2007, 08:18 PM

Blah I've had finals all week, sorry I haven't been on more!

Henry Bowman · #7 03/21/2007, 10:27 PM

Doc, just curious.... Are you using any amino acid supplements or just the pappone?

Thx

docwells · #8 03/22/2007, 08:52 AM

Henry,
I am using seachem reef plus for my amino acids and the pappone. I am following the blue coral method as described earlier. I am up to feeding 3x a week now. I am using a 1/2 cube when I feed. I started off with feeding once a week and noticed some rtn. Then I saw the post about RTN was linked to not feeding enough. So I went to twice a week. Still had a little RTN going on. So now up to 3x/ week and no more RTN.

But I am going to have to hurry up and get my calcium reactor in. Dosing that increased amount of B-ionic is a pain and costly. I have to dose that amount staggered over the day so as not to really spike my ph and cause a snowstorm. I learned the snowstorm issue the hard way. Plus all the testing of alkalinty is costly.

skydancer · #9 03/22/2007, 12:19 PM

Excuse the ignorance Doc, but what is RTN? I've seen the term referenced so many times on this thread...
I've been feeding Reefbooster aminoacids and pappone once a week for about 2 months now. I have noticed coral growth and polyp extension... but RTN?
Thanks.

proboscis · #10 03/22/2007, 01:03 PM

Skydancer, RTN= rapid tissue necrosis

speckled trout · #11 03/22/2007, 02:50 PM

Is this only occurring in the tanks using Zeovit(sp?)

trueblackpercula · #12 03/22/2007, 04:46 PM

I was using Zeo and yes I had RTN ...........stoped and RTN has gone away.
Michael

Flint&Eric · #13 03/22/2007, 04:59 PM

BC and zeo can work together.

Adding pappone with zeo is like over dosing with start2.... and causes RTN.

If you run zeo keep levels at NSW, feed pappone less the sugar and you should be fine.

eric

SueT · #14 03/22/2007, 05:52 PM

I've been using the BluCoral feeding for 9 weeks now. I have not had any RTN, bleaching or any problems whatsoever. I have been increasing to every 5 days now for the last 2.5 weeks. I am amazed at the overall health of my reef tank. Not that it was bad before but now water is crystal clear, water params I have increased but not quite as high as is recommended. My alk. has been a steady 9.3dKh and I'm running ca @ 440. Mag. @ 1350. I am also using Reef Plus 2 hours before feeding. I am seeing a bit less skimmate for the times between feedings.

invincible569 · #15 03/22/2007, 06:16 PM

Hey SueT! Long time no see!

Glad to see you around again.

Sir · #16 03/23/2007, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flint&Eric
BC and zeo can work together.

Adding pappone with zeo is like over dosing with start2.... and causes RTN.

If you run zeo keep levels at NSW, feed pappone less the sugar and you should be fine.

eric

esatto!!!!
diciamo che in questo caso si usa solo una parte del metodo (il pappone ) e non l'intero sistema(valori alti, kalkawasser ecc ecc)...una alimentazione con il pappone è sicuramente semplice e comoda anche per chi usa zeovit.

Bisogna fare attenzione!come per ogni altra cosa...

ciao Fabio.

SueT · #17 03/23/2007, 08:13 AM

hey invince.. I've been around some.. just getting my feet wet again..

blide · #18 03/23/2007, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by proboscis
Skydancer, RTN= rapid tissue necrosis

And here is what it looks like...

skydancer · #19 03/23/2007, 10:04 AM

RTN... That's a horrible thing...

I'm glad I didn't have to find out what it was and didn't experience it while feeding amino/pappone.

dhnguyen · #20 03/23/2007, 05:58 PM

Damn blide.... I winced when I saw those photos.
Almost physically painful to look at.

unclefrosby · #21 03/23/2007, 08:18 PM

so I jumped on here a little late and am still confused. I am going to be running a new tank thats 52 gal with a bubble king skimmer and red dragon pump obviously my flow and skimmate will be more than sufficiant. I will be using ZEO on this tank. So from what I have read I need to dose the pappone without sugar. I need to dose it an hour AFTER my lights go off and dose Amino Acids right when my lights go off. take off skimmer collection cup after dosing but leave skimmer on overnight, in the morning put cup back on. If RTN occurs dose more frequently??? Is this right or am I still lost. Thanks for the help.

Tim

unclefrosby · #22 03/24/2007, 09:23 PM

ANYONE??!!

Henry Bowman · #23 03/24/2007, 09:27 PM

Unclefrosby, I have been following this thread for some time and what you state is correct. If RTN starts, increase the freequency of the feeding. As far as the timimg of the feeding, I think you are headed in the right direction.

HTH

unclefrosby · #24 03/24/2007, 09:28 PM

and the use of zeovit and this system minus the sugar is just fine and dandy??

DarkXerox · #25 03/25/2007, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir
esatto!!!!
diciamo che in questo caso si usa solo una parte del metodo (il pappone ) e non l'intero sistema(valori alti, kalkawasser ecc ecc)...una alimentazione con il pappone è sicuramente semplice e comoda anche per chi usa zeovit.

Bisogna fare attenzione!come per ogni altra cosa...

ciao Fabio.

translation:

Exactly!
We said that in this case you use only a part of the method (the pappone) and no the whole system (high params, kalkwasser, etc.)...a feeding with pappone is certainly simple and convenient also for whomever uses zeovit.

You need to be careful! as with every other thing.

----------------------------------
In other news, I just fed my tank tonight with pappone for the first time! We will see how it does.

ho cominciato a nutrire la vasca con il pappone per la prima volta! Vedremo come il pappone funziona.