Tunze nano mod

[skydancer]

Originally posted by GSMguy
send it to rodger

it's been modded...

[jacmyoung]

Originally posted by skydancer
it's been modded...

Don't you worry, I am pretty sure my mod will cure your 6025, I just need to find the time to do the mod.

[dhnguyen]

Roger cannot guarantee that the 6025 will start the correct way every time. It is in the nature of AC motors that they can spin in both direction and often they do just that. There IS no way to correct the prop direction without a physical stopper. Trust me on this guys. I have done this enough on MJs and other pumps to know better.

[GSMguy]

Originally posted by dhnguyen
Roger cannot guarantee that the 6025 will start the correct way every time. It is in the nature of AC motors that they can spin in both direction and often they do just that. There IS no way to correct the prop direction without a physical stopper. Trust me on this guys. I have done this enough on MJs and other pumps to know better.

um why do mine switch direction after a couple seconds then?? they sometimes start backwards bu always correct

[skydancer]

Originally posted by jacmyoung
Don't you worry, I am pretty sure my mod will cure your 6025, I just need to find the time to do the mod.

the anticipation is killing me....

[jacmyoung]

Originally posted by dhnguyen
Roger cannot guarantee that the 6025 will start the correct way every time. It is in the nature of AC motors that they can spin in both direction and often they do just that. There IS no way to correct the prop direction without a physical stopper. Trust me on this guys. I have done this enough on MJs and other pumps to know better.

Let's use this term "self-correct" so we don't confuse ourselves. All Tunze stock nanostreams should self-correct at startup. The modded ones may have problem as I explained earlier.

I forgot to ask you this since you are an expert on this subject. How close should the stopper be to the prop at its resting position? Can the stopper be right next to the prop or should it be some ways from the prop so the prop is allowed to shoot out some before the stopping action?

[mr pink floyd]

im pretty sure the way they self correct is if it spins backwards, it shoots out of the magnet "tube" becasue the prop pulls it out by pushing water behind it. The outward force is not strong enough to break the force of the magnet holding it in place, so it drops back in, and water rushes through the prop and forward, the way it should spin, and this puts a slight rotation on the magnet, when it comes close enough to the center of the field, there is enough energy to pick up on the rotation and keep it spinning, this time in the right direction

[dhnguyen]

In order to do this effectively the shroud will need to be much longer than that. The current nano shroud isn't long enough to allow the magnet to move forward to completely break the magnetic field. This is why we don't see as many of the same sort of issue with reverse spinning on the Hydor because their shroud is longer allowing more room for the magnet/prop to move forward.

jacmyoung: the stopper should allow enough room for the propeller to move forward ( I usually allow at least 1/8" if not 1/4" of free space for this)


GSMguy: IME Whether the "self correcting" feature will work or not depends on the tolerance in how the particular magnet and motor was built. No one motor or magnet is exactly the same as the next. And as such you will find some that are slightly weaker than others. This is true with all pumps.
Because of this fact, this "self correction" cannot work 100% of the time unless a physical stopper or brake is used. This is all from my experience and observation in modding other pumps and of course with no real scientific data to back.

[mr pink floyd]

Dh, either im confused, or you are, im guessing i am, but lemme try to explain a little better. The magnet should not break the field, it should go out as far as it is allowed before the force of the magnet pulls it back down. It wouldnt need to go out very far, just enough so that when it shoots back the prop is spinnign in the correct direction

[dhnguyen]

I didn't mean that the magnet should be completely separated from the motor body per se. But it should be allowed to move forward far enough so that the electro magnetic field from the motor coil can no longer spin it. Looking at the shorter nano shroud, I don't think this will happen reliably 100% of the time. There is just not enough room for the propeller to move forward as far as it needs to.

[mr pink floyd]

if you pull the prop out while the pump is on, youll see there is very little movement needed to make it not spin, maybe 1/2" or so?

its force of the water pushing on the prop that causes rotational energy when it shoots thew wrong way, and then again back in the water hits the prop, giving rotational energy in the other direction/

[dhnguyen]

I understand that it's the force of the backward water from the propeller spinning the wrong way (pulling in water) that pushed the magnet outward---Lets call it lift if you will. But it is the magnetic strength and force of the motor and magnet that will pull the magnet back in.

If I had a dollar for every time I have to tell people to use a stopper on the MJ mod to make spin correctly every time I would be very rich right now The same applies here. The nano motors are also AC as is the MJ motor. Also there is no other reason why there is that wedge on the 6045 crossbar other than to use as a stopper of sorts.

[GSMguy]

Originally posted by dhnguyen
I understand that it's the force of the backward water from the propeller spinning the wrong way (pulling in water) that pushed the magnet outward---Lets call it lift if you will. But it is the magnetic strength and force of the motor and magnet that will pull the magnet back in.

If I had a dollar for every time I have to tell people to use a stopper on the MJ mod to make spin correctly every time I would be very rich right now The same applies here. The nano motors are also AC as is the MJ motor. Also there is no other reason why there is that wedge on the 6045 crossbar other than to use as a stopper of sorts.

the nano streams really are similar to the mj mods just a different shape

[mr pink floyd]

haha DH, thats exactly what i said, or tried to at least. My brain must work differently from yours

[jacmyoung]

Alright, I have done the stopper mod tonight, took me an hour, was very careful with each step. I had to squeeze this work in tonight because I understood Skydancer's face was turning blue And this thing works like a charm.

Picture #1


Picture #2


Picture #3



Picture #4


Picture #5


Picture #6


Here is where the story goes:

A week ago I was staring at the scrap nozzle cutoff (Picture #1) after my wide flow mod, the light bulb came on, you know the kind of bulb Mr. Pink Floyd had, only that his was a rapid start, mine had to flick a few times.

But I wasn't so sure of the long term prospect of this mod since it was unlike any thing I read before in the MJ mod threads, that was until two days ago I saw a picture posted by atvdave on this thread of the inside of the 6045 nozzle/stopper. I realized Tunze had used the same trick so I was sure right there it was tested and would work long term.

Tonight I started by turning the 6025 cross bar cutoff into, well a cross bar, retaining the full length of the bars (Picture #2), including the added length by the rim, I then cut a notch on the tip of each bar, smoothed out the edges, then made four little matching cuts on the rim of the nozzle, pressed the cross bar into the nozzle, then used the workstation as a drill press routed out the center of the cross bar a little (Pictures #3 and #4) so when the prop shoots out, the prop center point will not hit the stopper rather the blades will, and therefore stop the prop from spinning.

The reason for the notch on the tip of each bar is so the matching cut on the nozzle could be short, once the fish screen cap is on they will be invisible (Picture #5)

Picture #6 shows the 6025 fully assembled after the stopper mod.

Most of the time was spent looking at my plans and taking it slow, making good and snug fit for each joint, and it paid off, I did not make any mistakes I feared might happen in a rush.

I am going to put this pump in my tank tomorrow and set it on a wavemaker with a one-minute on/off cycle, let it go for a few days to check wear and tear.

The best part of this mod is it is removable! If you don't need it just pop it out, put the screen cap back on, no one will be able to tell. The reason I want stress the removable part is that I actually found a great use for the reverse flow. Once every few days I would intentionally switch the pump off and on let it run in reverse for a few, then switch it back to the correct flow. I had a name for it, it's called auto cleaning mode It blows off all the junk accumulated on the ball so I do not have to take the pump out of the tank to clean that often.

Of course with the stopper installed, the auto cleaning mode is disabled. But how cool is that when you can actually choose which option to use.

Now Skydancer take a deep breadth and get on with your assignment

[Paliya]

What the!?!

Great work jacmyoung!! I'll be following this thread with great interest! Thanks for your contributions.

[skydancer]

I knew we wouldn't have to wait days to see the infamous jacmyoung stopper... wow, this is a work of art. If you're closer I 'd come by to get personal lessons...

I guess as they say, the ball is on my court now.

Great work jacmyoung. Let us know how reliable the stopper is...
Does it correct the spin, 100% of the time?

[jacmyoung]

Originally posted by skydancer
I knew we wouldn't have to wait days to see the infamous jacmyoung stopper... wow, this is a work of art. If you're closer I 'd come by to get personal lessons...

I guess as they say, the ball is on my court now.

Great work jacmyoung. Let us know how reliable the stopper is...
Does it correct the spin, 100% of the time?

Your welcome anytime. Love to see your nice tank in person too. I don't know about lecturing, tried that once realized not made for that.

The mod has worked 100% so far, and the self-correction is very swift, so much so most of the time it seemed it magically started right without the need for correction. Whereas before that this pump almost always started in reverse.

[jpndave]

Outstanding! Great work on this one jacmyoung; superb innovation, first class execution, good pics!

I am looking at using one of these in a 21x21x21 cube. The shorter output sounds like it may really help as I don't need the distance just the volume of flow. What do you all think? Will it be too much? The only other flow is from a Eheim 1260 return through a SCWD from the sump.

[dhnguyen]

Told ya you needed a stopper

Nice work jacmyoung

Now if Tunze would only get their head out of the sand and start listening to people who actually use these pumps. Damn engineers always think they know best on what the customers want/need.

[dhnguyen]

Originally posted by mr pink floyd
haha DH, thats exactly what i said, or tried to at least. My brain must work differently from yours

Well not exactly. The build tolerance vary from pump to pump and as such a slightly stronger magnet would be shot straight out of the motor body like a bullet versus only move foward just enough to break the spin.

[jacmyoung]

My thanks go to everyone for the compliment and good suggestions.

And you dhnguyen, without your assurance I wouldn't have dared to try.

Originally posted by dhnguyen
Told ya you needed a stopper

Nice work jacmyoung

Now if Tunze would only get their head out of the sand and start listening to people who actually use these pumps. Damn engineers always think they know best on what the customers want/need.

[Kinetic]

I guess I'll need to buy a dremel now =P

Any suggestions on what kind etc.? I've never used one before =)

[dhnguyen]

You COULD spend some bucks and buy a Dremel but why?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...111&pricetype=

I use one of the Chicago Electric rotary tools in my DIY projects and it works fine IMO. Best of all they can use Dremel bits also

[mr pink floyd]

jacmyoung, great work

I want to thank you for doing all of this, i would never have thought to put something together like that, nor do i have the tools. you are doing great things here, I'd say keep it up, but i think this pump has been pushed to its limit, the next mod might be with different props...

any takers?