Italy's Best! Matured SPS Aquariums.

[Robert Patterso]

I'm sorry, I just don't quite understand the translation.

Robert, saccarosio or the fructose, depends from which you prefer, you can put it in the glutton directly. Servants not to dose it 4 hours before... casomai you can dose 1-2 hours pirma of the glutton, a p� of amino acids... goes also the glutammina well

The fructose or sugar can be but into the glutton. Glutton meaning food or glutamine?

Casomai, meaning shell fish? Feed it 1-2 hrs prior to the glutamine or after the glutamine.

a p� of amino acids... goes also the glutammina well, does this mean that glutamine is a good source of amino acids?

Sorry, don't mean to be a pain here, just want to make sure I'm following this correctly.
This one heck of a thread with some great info. I appreciate all the guys from Italy sharing there experiences here...

[Leonardo's Reef]

I think Glutton is a false translation (by translate-computer) for "pappone" wich is the blender-mush itself.

Leonardo

[Leonardo's Reef]

Maybe it's time for a summary, so all the information of this whole thread is in one post. That post then can be checked by our Italian friends.

Just a thought...

Leonardo

[solbby]

Originally posted by Herpervet

L-Aspartic acid is a relatively inexpensive supplement. Was there any quantified data in any of these studies. i.e. how much of the aspartate was actually layed down? This would help with figuring out a dose.

Yes there was, but most of it is in another cited paper that works out the experimental design of using radioactive L-aspartic acid for coral uptake.

From the paper:
Organic matrix synthesis in the scleractinian coral stylophora pistillata: role in biomineralization and potential target of the organotin tributyltin

D Allemand, E TambuttE, JP Girard and J Jaubert
Journal of Experimental Biology, Vol 201, Issue 13 2001-2009, 1998.

Rates of incorporation of 14C-labelled macromolecules in to the organic matrix and calcification are constant over the time range tested, demonstrating that the ratio Ca2+/aspartic acid is kept constant and that both organic and inorganic skeletal components are depositied simultaneously.

(continued)............this allows us to calculate a rate of 0.13pmol aspartic acid h-1 mg-1 tissue protein incorporated in the skeleton, which is 4 x 10exp5 times slower than the rate of calcium deposition. This gives a molar ratio of Ca2+/aspartic acid of approximately 3.8 x 10exp6 .

Also from the Materials and Methods section:

Unless otherwise specified, the external concentration was adjusted to 0.5 mmol l-1 with unlabelled aspartic acid.

Therefore, approximation 1.9 mmol/US gallon would be the dose I would use.

[jmann]

The way I have read it you feed the amino's a few hrs before feeding the proteins/sugar 1/2 cube per 100 gals of tank size. So say you are using L-Glutamine you feed it a few hrs before the mush mix, is this correct???? Also maybe I'm getting old but what is sr 25 to 30??? John

[Robert Patterso]

^^^^^ same questions

[Robert Patterso]

Therefore, approximation 1.9 mmol/US gallon would be the dose I would use.

^^ what does this translate to in lamens terms for us non scientific folk?

[jmann]

Also what is one spoon of sugar equate to??? teaspoon, tablespoon???? Thanks John

[Sir]

Originally posted by jmann
The way I have read it you feed the amino's a few hrs before feeding the proteins/sugar 1/2 cube per 100 gals of tank size. So say you are using L-Glutamine you feed it a few hrs before the mush mix, is this correct???? Also maybe I'm getting old but what is sr 25 to 30??? John

Ciao...
è corretto! gli amminoacidi, di qualunque tipo essi siano, vanno inseriti 1-2 ore prima del cubetto.
Sr= stronzio! che deve essere in concentrazioni tra i 16 mg/l e i 30mg/l....

vi serve un traduttore!

...micheal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sir]

.....errore...

[Sir]

Originally posted by jmann
Also what is one spoon of sugar equate to??? teaspoon, tablespoon???? Thanks John

Ciao,
è un cucchiaio grande! quelli da minestra, non quelli da tè... che và inserito direttamente nel pappone...prima di preparare i cubetti che andranno nel freezer....

[Sir]

Originally posted by Robert Patterso
I'm sorry, I just don't quite understand the translation.

Robert, saccarosio or the fructose, depends from which you prefer, you can put it in the glutton directly. Servants not to dose it 4 hours before... casomai you can dose 1-2 hours pirma of the glutton, a p� of amino acids... goes also the glutammina well

The fructose or sugar can be but into the glutton. Glutton meaning food or glutamine?

Casomai, meaning shell fish? Feed it 1-2 hrs prior to the glutamine or after the glutamine.

a p� of amino acids... goes also the glutammina well, does this mean that glutamine is a good source of amino acids?

Sorry, don't mean to be a pain here, just want to make sure I'm following this correctly.
This one heck of a thread with some great info. I appreciate all the guys from Italy sharing there experiences here...

Mi dispiace Robert! io non parlo molto bene inglese...quindi preferisco scrivere in italiano correttamente, piuttosto che in inglese sbagliato....

[DarkXerox]

Originally posted by Sir
Ciao,
è un cucchiaio grande! quelli da minestra, non quelli da tè... che và inserito direttamente nel pappone...prima di preparare i cubetti che andranno nel freezer....

Translation: use a big spoon, like a large soup spoon, not a tiny teaspoon like you would when you ahve a cup of tea. Then put it directly into the mix for the cubes before you put it into the cube forms and into the freezer. Dont worry if it is sucrose or fructose--the whole point is that it is a carbon source for the tank.

The translation for "pappone" is wrong when it says glutton. Just think of it as the cube.

Bascially mix EVERYTHING together in a blender before it gets tossed into the freezer. I'm going to try this when I get home in January because I saw what the cubes look like when I visited Bisck's tank in Florence. It really isn't complicated guys


Solby: Well when I'm at home, I'm kind of in the heart of biotech territory , but I do know you can get BSA (sometimes) since they use as a feeder medium for cell cultures. However, everyone is getting way too obsessed with the idea of using hormones. The whole point is that it provides a major source of aminos, and a lot of people here in Italy are using amino acid supplements--ie over the counter pills. I don't see why we can't find these in the US. Honestly until we can find out exactly what aminos are being used the most by the corals themselves, we can probably get away with something with a mix of AA's.

[REEF-DADDY]

Is there a synergistic effect to adding the carbon source to your cubes? Would'nt dosing the carbon separately have the same effect?

[jmann]

I can't read Italian, but I think Sr is strontium, which is what I thought it meant, but wanted to make sure. So a tablespoon of sugar should do it. Thankyou Sir. As far as AA's go I have been using Kent's "Coral Accel" which is supposed to be AA's. It sure makes the polyps blossum out and have used it to save corals that wern't doing so well. I don't use it everyday like they say but do use it a few hrs. before feeding 2 to 3 times a week.

[DarkXerox]

Originally posted by REEF-DADDY
Is there a synergistic effect to adding the carbon source to your cubes? Would'nt dosing the carbon separately have the same effect?

I have yet to make a batch but I think that A, it acts as a binder for the cubes and B, yes it is probably similar to other carbon sources such as Vodka dosing. It has been discussed that this if anything helps support the bacterial load in the tank.

[Claeth]

Here's a question, would it hurt to add sugar directly to the tank as the carbon source? Since i already have a diet that my corals seem to thrive on, (cyclopeze, DT's oyster eggs, and flakes) would adding just the sugar be benificial, or does it have to be mixed with the foods for the corals to make use of it?

[jmann]

That question was answered back a few pages, I can't remember which one for sure but they said it could cause a bacteria explosion I believe and someother reason that it should be fed with the food.

[Laakmann]

I made the mix today, I didnt use HGH or anything, just some amino acid powder which will hopefully do the trick, I didnt really have the exact recipe in front of me or anything so I bought what was there.

Anyways I got

3 Large Live Oysters,
10 Live Mussels
A little fish filet
5 large rawprawns
5 Large raw Scallops
Anabol natural Amino Balance, powder form, I got it because the ingredients were amino acids only
Spoon of Sucrose suger
300mL of DO/DI water

I got about 70 cubes out of that.



Dont use my recipe or anything, this is just what I used





Already have my Mg at 1400 and my Ca at 460 also.

[Robert Patterso]

Question, it was brought to my attention that if your running your perimeters at such high levels that with the excellerated growth some of thinner tissue acros, such as valida, tenius and such might experience tissue tearing.

Was wondering if any one at reefitalia who are using this method have experienced this in their acros? Or do you see it as a concern?

Thanks,
Robert

[Robert Patterso]

Also are they using refugiums on their systems? I am, and was wondering if this could creat any problems while using this method of feeding?

[Cosmo^Kramer]

Robert,I never heard of tissue tearing with corals.Is there any evidence of this? I'm not being a wise guy,I'm really intrested if this actually happens

[Robert Patterso]

Originally posted by Cosmo^Kramer
Robert,I never heard of tissue tearing with corals.Is there any evidence of this? I'm not being a wise guy,I'm really intrested if this actually happens

I myself have never seen or heard of it. I'm really not sure it's possible. Don't know how the skeleton could outgrow the tissues being the skeleton is basically waste product of the coral.

It was brought up in another forum with a similar subject as this. It was stated that with such high perimeters that this could happen. To me you would need your perimeters up to keep up with the growth of the coral.

So no there is no evidence that I'm aware of.

[Laakmann]

I am using the mix and I put a cube in, I had to take the rest of the cube out before it melted, it just seems like it is sooo much food and the water got pretty cloudy, I couldnt see through more than 6 feet of water. Is this normal? It just seems like a whole ice cube is alot of food for just one sitting.

[Robert Patterso]

Originally posted by Laakmann
I am using the mix and I put a cube in, I had to take the rest of the cube out before it melted, it just seems like it is sooo much food and the water got pretty cloudy, I couldnt see through more than 6 feet of water. Is this normal? It just seems like a whole ice cube is alot of food for just one sitting.

I think they stated they were only using a half cube at a time....