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#76
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Hey guys, i just wanted you to know that the reeflo snapper is availabe at custom aquatics. I spoke to sequence and the snapper uses the exact motor and wet end as the dart. The only difference is the impeller size. That is what changes the wattage and the GPH. Also they mentioned that they make the little giant
OPWG-20 and that is exactly the same pump as the snapper for a few dollars less than the reeflow. I bought one about 2 weeks ago and got it for 180.00 or so shipped. |
#77
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but none give detailed info like maximum head, power curves, etc. I'll be glad when (or if) MDM lists it on their web site. Thanks for passing on the info from MDM. I feel better about buying the Snapper knowing its essentially a tried-n-true Dart. |
#78
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Okay, the following excercise may have been done before, and
it may be completely silly, but I've been thinking more about the new Sequence Reeflo Snapper pump as a DIY needle-wheel... kWH = kilowatt-hour GPH = gallons per hour CFH = cubic feet per hour 1 year = 8760 hours Assume $0.075 (7.5 cents) per kWH Red Dragon Bubble-King (PW7? + NW impeller) Price: $780 (from R.E. web site) Power: 42W = 0.042 kW water: 790 GPH (air: 254 GPH = 32.6 CFH) 0.042 kW x 8760 Hr/yr = 368 kWH per year 368 kWH x $0.075 = $28 per year Sequence Reeflo Snapper (DIY NW impeller) Price: $190 Power: 98W = 0.098 kW water: ??? GPH (air: ??? GPH = ??? CFH) 0.098 kW x 8760 Hr/yr = 858 kWH per year 858 kWH x $0.075 = $65 per year Price difference = $780 - $190 = $590 Power bill difference = $65 - $28 = $37 per year Time to recover initial Red Dragon investment when compared to Sequence Snapper... $590 / $37 per year ~= 16 YEARS! Sequence Dart Price: $200 Power: 160W = 0.16 kW water: ??? GPH (air: ??? GPH = ??? CFH) 0.16 kW x 8760 Hr/yr = 1402 kWH per year 1402 kWH x $0.075 = $105 per year Price difference = $780 - $200 = $580 Power bill difference = $105 - $28 = $77 per year Time to recover initial Red Dragon investment when compared to Sequence Dart... $580 / $77 per year ~= 7.5 YEARS! Comments The least expensive and smallest power draw Red Dragon needle-wheel pump was chosen for this cost analysis. There was no model number give on the R.E. web site, so I guessed that it was a Power-Wave7 with a NW impeller. The Sequence Snapper and Dart water/air output is an unknown because the DIY needle-wheel and air intake design determines that variable. Regardless, I think it's a fair assumption that a decent DIY needle-wheel impeller for the Snapper/Dart can equal or exceed the Red Dragon's water/air output. Assuming power costs are doubled to 15 cents per kWH, the time to recover the initial investment in a Red Dragaon pump is still about 8 years when compared to the Snapper and almost 4 years when compared to the Dart. Since the Snapper comparisons approaches or exceeds most aquarium pump's lifespan, the Red Dragon can't be justified even when utility costs are doubled. Of course, this assumes the advertised power use of 98W is accurate when the Snapper is used as a NW. We won't know until we get one and put a meter on it. Using the Dart comparison, if power costs are doubled and the Red Dragon runs without failure or repair (which is likely), then you begin saving money over the Dart after 3.75 years. At 4.75 years, you have saved about $150 in power. At 5.75 years, you have saved about $300 and so forth. To save enough in power bills to buy another RD, you must get at least 7.5 years use from your first RD (without repair). I suspect this is feasible given the quality of the RD pumps. |
#79
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hsvtoolfool, that is some great information!
but those numbers are based on the 160w dart pump. and the 98w snapper. when ever you inject air into a pump the wattage draw goes way down. i got my dart down to 95 watts with an air pump hooked up to it. i feel the dart pump will be rated for about 100 scfh at 130w sucking air on its own, and 175 scfh at 95 watts with an air pump hooked to it. if you figure in the wattage of the air pump with the dart pump, it would increase it to around 175-200 watts. i cant wait to see what the wattage draw of the tiny might runs at. at 90 watts as a standard water pump it should run about 45-60 watts as a needle wheel pump. and im hoping for 60 -100 scfh running with out an air pump on it. once i can get the skimmer body done enough to put water in it, i will post some number on it. if anyone else has information like hsvtoolfool has please post it. its great information for designing things like this. i can change the pins to increase the air intake or decrease the pins to lower the wattage draw. it all depends on what size the skimmer body will be.
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a wise man once told me.... " there is no right way to build a reef tank but there is alot of wrong ways to build a reef tank". |
#80
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Spazz,
I have a question. What about the ocean runner pumps makes them so much better than the sedras? Is it the motor or needle wheel impeller design or maybe the venturi used? I ask because if it is the impeller design, and I know it would take 4th axis machining, could you make an impeller like the Oceanrunner? I am thinking about taking the impeller out of my Oceanrunner 2700 and fitting it into my sedra 9000, just to see what happens. If it increases preformance substantially then maybe it would be a good design to look at for the tiny might or dart. Just a thought. Keith
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If you have a college degree, you can be sure of one thing. You have a college degree! Superman owns Chuck Norris Pajamas!! |
#81
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a wise man once told me.... " there is no right way to build a reef tank but there is alot of wrong ways to build a reef tank". |
#82
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take this as gospel. I'm a computer engineer, so cost analysis is not my area of expertise. I'm sure someone will eventually point out all the errors or bad assumptions I made. I just wondered how expensive electricity needs to be before buying an expensive but low-power pump is justified. If the low-cost pump is below 100W, then it doesn't matter that the expensive pump uses half the power. But if the low-cost pump is 150W and above, then your local electricity rates determine if the expensive pump is worth the cost. Quote:
needle-wheel and air input. Since the Snapper and Dart are the same pump with different impellers, and looking at the Dart power/flow graph, the 95W minimum you got is likely the lowest power use we can get from either the Snapper or Dart. Quote:
doesn't discontinue it within the near future. And... I'm a worry wart. Quote:
the Dart may be "crippled" enough for a 10-inch skimmer. Or like Bill Wann, the Dart can be hopped up enough to drive a huuuge NW skimmer. |
#83
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well i dont have any updates on the tiny might pump yet. but im hoping to get a little time to work on it this week. i was down visiting bill and fred and took some pics. this is fred. he is one of the friendliest fish you will ever meet. he allways comes tothe top of the tank to say hi to me when im ove there, and he dont mind being touched either. he is trully an awesome fish.
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a wise man once told me.... " there is no right way to build a reef tank but there is alot of wrong ways to build a reef tank". |
#84
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I'd do it.
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Hair algae is my Macro algae. |
#85
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How's Bill's skimmer working out?
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If you have a college degree, you can be sure of one thing. You have a college degree! Superman owns Chuck Norris Pajamas!! |
#86
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a wise man once told me.... " there is no right way to build a reef tank but there is alot of wrong ways to build a reef tank". |
#87
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I was not going to post pics of the skimmer because every time I look at the pics I remember how bad the skimmate smelled when he dumped it. I have a super strong stomach from working on a farm for 4 years. nothing turns my guts. his skimmate almost made me loose my dinner. it smells just like sewage. I have never seen black skimmate in a skimmer before. its the nastiest thing you would ever want to smell. the cup has to be emptied every day now. its pumping that crap out by the bucket load. this is bills new calcium reactor. I roughly calculate it will hold about 60-80 lbs of Gen x media in it. its the biggest reactor I have ever seen! I love bills ideas and philosophy. go big or go home!
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a wise man once told me.... " there is no right way to build a reef tank but there is alot of wrong ways to build a reef tank". |
#88
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Scott,
Man that is awesome! Come on Tiny Might! I have the parts for my skimmer all pieced together. I built the body just like Bills' and yours. Now I wonder if I should put a flange on the bottom box to be able to clean it. Is that a sediment of crud on the bottom of the skimmer? How is he going to get that out? I guess he could blow it out with a pump. Any more progress on the skimmer body you are working on? Mike |
#89
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Showoff...
The skimmer looks like its doing real well. Got any close up pics of the top of the reactor?
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Gigas! Its whats for dinner! |
#90
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sorry thats the only pic of the reactor.
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a wise man once told me.... " there is no right way to build a reef tank but there is alot of wrong ways to build a reef tank". |
#91
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auto-wash? The investment is undeniably justified to avoid smelling just one bucket-full. Nassssty! |
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I love this stuff. I am anxious about the tiny might outcome. I am seriously considering its use on my skimmer.
Keep us posted. Any chance of getting the numbers from the dart needle wheel performance? I would love to crunch the performance numbers in my excel sheet. Dale |
#93
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Oh geez! Dark black skimmate by the gallon! How does Bill dispose of such vile liquid? Down the drain(which I would assume clog fast)
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Tony |
#94
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Thanks for the pics Spazz.
I am surprised how fast the body has gotten crudded up. Is that normal? Man, he must feed a lot to get that much crud out of the system. How many fish does he have? Thanks again, Keith
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If you have a college degree, you can be sure of one thing. You have a college degree! Superman owns Chuck Norris Pajamas!! |
#95
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I know. JK around. Did you make that reactor or did Bill? I'm just curious how you did the top It looks its built like a schuran reactor. I asked in a pevious thread a while back about building there "gas seperator" but never found many good pics.
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Gigas! Its whats for dinner! |
#96
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Man, no answers to questions in posts, pms or emails...
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#97
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the tiny might is on hold for the moment. i want to do it right the first time and im waiting on tubing. i also have a job to do and cant play in the shop every day. give it time and i will have an awesome skimmer to show you. im hoping to get some time on it this week but no promisses.
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a wise man once told me.... " there is no right way to build a reef tank but there is alot of wrong ways to build a reef tank". |
#98
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I am glad to find this thread. I had no idea it had been going for days now. I will be following the progress here on this one. Awesome work Scott. Sorry the impeller gave you such a hard time, but think of it as honing your skills LOL........................
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Arguing with ignorant people is an exercise in futility. They will bring you down to their level and once there they will beat you with their overwhelming experience. |
#99
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a wise man once told me.... " there is no right way to build a reef tank but there is alot of wrong ways to build a reef tank". |
#100
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a wise man once told me.... " there is no right way to build a reef tank but there is alot of wrong ways to build a reef tank". |
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