Reef Central Online Community
Marine Depot

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community Archives > General Interest Forums > The Reef Chemistry Forum

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01/04/2008, 03:09 PM
bdare bdare is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Rockwall, TX
Posts: 304
Exclamation Reef Crystals - The results are in...

As some of you may have seen in the other thead I mailed some Reef Crystals to Aquarium Systems to be tested.

This afternoon I got a call from Bob Studt, the Quality Controll manager. He said they tested my salt 3 times each with very similar results. At 1.026:

Mg: 1150
Ca: 380

He stated that currently there are no batch numbers on buckets so there is no way to track if a bucket is good or bad.

He also apologized to everyone who is having these troubles but explained they can not send out salt to everyone who quotes low numbers on an internet thread.

If you would like your salt replaced by Aquarium Systems you'll need to mail them a sample. I find this pretty resonable... Although I'm not sure what it is yet, Bob did tell me he'd throw in some goodies for my trouble. If your salt is low, I'm sure he'll do the same for you...

Ben

Last edited by bdare; 01/04/2008 at 03:57 PM.
  #2  
Old 01/04/2008, 03:55 PM
Mr. Ugly Mr. Ugly is offline
Ugly fishes need love too
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 2,884
Thanks Ben. Good to know.

Despite the confirmation from Bill's tests, I kept thinking I might have tested incorrectly, and was about to do another batch of tests.

Yesterday, I made a ~2 liter batch Randy's 35ppt standard... weighed everything to the nearest .01 gram on a Mettler balance, lol.
  #3  
Old 01/04/2008, 04:21 PM
lactose lactose is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 129
I too had been doing multiple tests with different kits to see if there was an error on my side and while there always could be this was the same measurements I was getting on the first of the 4 buckets i picked up from the df&s coral conference. I will send in a sample and then move on to testing the other buckets.

Thanks.
  #4  
Old 01/04/2008, 04:36 PM
USC-fan USC-fan is offline
Charleston Reefer
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: charleston, sc
Posts: 2,009
Yeah I have also doubt my tests. I went ahead and brought all new test kits and even some calibration fluid for my refractometer. lol

What salt did he replace? The whole bucket? Might be worth sending in a sample if i can get the bucket replace.

Got to say i'm glad drf&s didn't have to eat the cost!! At least I don't have to worry about finding a new salt mix.

Please keep us update on how the new salt tests!!
  #5  
Old 01/04/2008, 04:44 PM
bdare bdare is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Rockwall, TX
Posts: 304
Quote:
Originally posted by USC-fan
Yeah I have also doubt my tests. I went ahead and brought all new test kits and even some calibration fluid for my refractometer. lol

What salt did he replace? The whole bucket? Might be worth sending in a sample if i can get the bucket replace.

Got to say i'm glad drf&s didn't have to eat the cost!! At least I don't have to worry about finding a new salt mix.

Please keep us update on how the new salt tests!!
Yes,

They are replacing the whole bucket. I expained to Bob that the good folks and Drs Foster and Smith had already sent me a replacement bucket, but he insisted on sending me one as well...

I also would not be so sure that the Drs aren't eating the costs of the salt they are sending out. As I stated the Aquarium Systems folks want to verify the salt is actually bad. Without batch numbers on the bucket they have no way to tell who's salt is good and who's is bad without testing it. The good Drs could just be sending out salt because this is a wide spread issue and they are key on customer service and satisfaction!

I have not tested the replacement bucket that I recieved from the Drs, but I'll test both buckets in time and let you know my results.

For now it is just good to know that the manufactuer is standing behind thier product and ensuring customer satisfaction.

Ben
  #6  
Old 01/04/2008, 04:57 PM
USC-fan USC-fan is offline
Charleston Reefer
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: charleston, sc
Posts: 2,009
Wow you got lucky 3 for the price of 1! lol.
  #7  
Old 01/04/2008, 04:59 PM
bdare bdare is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Rockwall, TX
Posts: 304
Quote:
Originally posted by USC-fan
Wow you got lucky 3 for the price of 1! lol.
True, but the verdict is still out on how much I'll spend on supplements to bring the salt to the right levels... Especially if the second bucket from the Drs tests low as well...
  #8  
Old 01/04/2008, 07:54 PM
xinumaster xinumaster is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: sj ca
Posts: 1,898
Send a message via Yahoo to xinumaster
Just tested my tank sw parameters last night. After I changed 45g of water.
alk =12dkh
salinity 1.024
CA = 360ppm
mg = 1100ppm

Salt was from a bucket that I ordered last Feb. I got a couple more buckets that I just ordered 3mo ago but I haven't opened this buckets yet. I might open them up tomorrow and test it too.
__________________
-perry/xinumaster

Last edited by xinumaster; 01/04/2008 at 08:01 PM.
  #9  
Old 01/04/2008, 08:29 PM
xinumaster xinumaster is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: sj ca
Posts: 1,898
Send a message via Yahoo to xinumaster
To test each buckets of my RC, how much RODI water do I need to add for 1/2 cup of salt?
__________________
-perry/xinumaster
  #10  
Old 01/04/2008, 08:30 PM
bdare bdare is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Rockwall, TX
Posts: 304
Quote:
Originally posted by xinumaster
To test each buckets of my RC, how much RODI water do I need to add for 1/2 cup of salt?
About 1 gallon.
  #11  
Old 01/04/2008, 08:30 PM
USC-fan USC-fan is offline
Charleston Reefer
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: charleston, sc
Posts: 2,009
1Gal
  #12  
Old 01/04/2008, 09:03 PM
bertoni bertoni is offline
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Foster City, CA, USA
Posts: 35,743
Approximately 1 gallon. I'd measure the SG with a calibrated device before testing.
__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
  #13  
Old 01/04/2008, 09:32 PM
Jorgens Jorgens is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sheboygan, WI
Posts: 228
Hmm interesting. I know the Drs. are fantastic on customer service. What do you have for contact info in case some os use have bad buckets as well? I regularly order from the Drs. for salt. I'm off to test as I've been fighting browning sps. I do not normally test anything other than SG on new water.

Good work and thanks!
__________________
No matter where you go...there you are!
  #14  
Old 01/04/2008, 09:44 PM
bdare bdare is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Rockwall, TX
Posts: 304
Quote:
Originally posted by Jorgens
Hmm interesting. I know the Drs. are fantastic on customer service. What do you have for contact info in case some os use have bad buckets as well? I regularly order from the Drs. for salt. I'm off to test as I've been fighting browning sps. I do not normally test anything other than SG on new water.

Good work and thanks!
Gershwin Asari
Quality Control
Aquarium Systems/Instant Ocean
8141 Tyler Blvd.
Mentor, Ohio 44060
  #15  
Old 01/05/2008, 01:50 AM
Billybeau1 Billybeau1 is offline
Team RC Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Dyer, Indiana
Posts: 6,369
Quote:
Originally posted by xinumaster
Just tested my tank sw parameters last night. After I changed 45g of water.
alk =12dkh
salinity 1.024
CA = 360ppm
mg = 1100ppm

Salt was from a bucket that I ordered last Feb. I got a couple more buckets that I just ordered 3mo ago but I haven't opened this buckets yet. I might open them up tomorrow and test it too.
That is a good bucket. I expect those numbers at 1.024

If mixed at 1.0264 (35ppt) your calcium and magnesium numbers will be more in line with the RC I know.

1/2 cup of RC in 1 gallon of water will not yield 1.0264

Thats just the way it is made.

You will need close to 3/4 cup of salt in 1 gallon of water to yield 1.0264 Actually its a little less but certainly more than 1/2 cup.

For what its worth, I've tested about 10 different salt mixes and none of them yielded 1.0264 with exactly 1/2 cup of salt mix. Some were a little better than others but thats a test I'm working on for another day.

When you talk cost per gallon, it is good to know how much salt it takes to make 35 ppt. I believe this makes a big difference in the long run.
  #16  
Old 01/05/2008, 09:11 AM
MinibowMatt MinibowMatt is offline
Delaware Valley Reef Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In Another Times Forgotten Space
Posts: 2,863
this is not the news I wanted to hear. I have been having issues too. I thought it was my mixing skills.



Up!
__________________
-----------------------
Matt
DVRC President

Prop&Save!
...Sure don't know what I'm going for, but I'm gonna go for it for sure...
  #17  
Old 01/05/2008, 11:11 AM
ArgonDreams ArgonDreams is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 318
The one thing thing that bothers me about this whole thing... How many of you are re-mixing the salts prior to mix on the entire bucket?

During shipment the salts settle into strata. I typically take 2 empty dry buckets and split my new salt between them and mix them back and forth until I get a true mix again. When I have not done this my testing shows very different levels depending on where I pulled from the bucket. (typically low Ca/Alk on the top of the bucket).

Do those of you who have had bad Ca measurements tried mixing the bucket back up prior to using the salt? Typically you only need to re-mix the salt initially since it's the multiple shipping and vibrations the bucket gets cause it to settle in this manner.

I would be curious to see if all or none of you do this recommended procedure?

For those that don't get what I am talking about, think of it like a bucket of rocks of different sizes (Which is essentially what this is) Give it anywhere from 7-10 days of vibration (Shipment) and then look into the bucket they will sort themselves into layers.
  #18  
Old 01/05/2008, 11:52 AM
Mike O'Brien Mike O'Brien is offline
Gastropod E.M.T.
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,824
Does the Ca sink, or stay at the top ?

I do actually pour the salt back and fourth a few times to mix it. I don't like the covers you have to hit with a hammer, so I use an older one. But I'm not so sure that I go for the settling idea. I've never noticed variations in a bucket prior to mixing the salt the way I do.
  #19  
Old 01/05/2008, 11:57 AM
Billybeau1 Billybeau1 is offline
Team RC Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Dyer, Indiana
Posts: 6,369
While I'm sure some settling (separating) can occur, I have not seen too much of a problem over the years in my testing. And I test a lot.
  #20  
Old 01/05/2008, 05:12 PM
speeddemonlsr speeddemonlsr is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 113
Gershwin Asari
Quality Control
Aquarium Systems/Instant Ocean
8141 Tyler Blvd.
Mentor, Ohio 44060

Will Gershwin Asari replace everyones salt that testing with low numbers if I send a sample? Do I pay for shipping?
  #21  
Old 01/05/2008, 05:15 PM
bdare bdare is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Rockwall, TX
Posts: 304
If you send them a salt sample and it truely is low, they will replace your salt. I paid for shipping.
  #22  
Old 01/05/2008, 05:54 PM
Randy Holmes-Farley Randy Holmes-Farley is offline
Reef Chemist
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Arlington, Massachusetts
Posts: 52,068
My concern with these sorts of screw ups is more along the lines of what else that we don't test for that they messed up. Not necessarily things that we can detect and adjust as necessary.
__________________
Randy Holmes-Farley
  #23  
Old 01/05/2008, 08:02 PM
Mr. Ugly Mr. Ugly is offline
Ugly fishes need love too
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 2,884
Quote:
Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
My concern with these sorts of screw ups is more along the lines of what else that we don't test for that they messed up. Not necessarily things that we can detect and adjust as necessary.
Exactly. I'm hoping that DF&S and ASI will be able to do more extensive testing than just of Ca and Mg.

I've been having random problems with SPS and LPS starting with this past summer. And I've really been wondering if there's something else going on with the salt.

I'll be asking ASI and DF&S about other tests when I send in my salt next week.

I may be able to get access to an ICP-MS for testing also.

Randy, any recommendations on what tests and procedures would be suitable for doing a more thorough investigation of this salt?

thx!
  #24  
Old 01/05/2008, 09:41 PM
geoxman geoxman is offline
Unregistered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: in my office
Posts: 2,386
IMHO---DFS is not responsible for testing their salt.
The manufacturer is and not the seller. Do you expect them to test every bucket they sell in the future?? It all falls back on the maker and not the seller. Now if the seller gets a bad batch and they take care of it- then they are a very good seller with good customer service.
What responsibility is on the end consumer to test? None?
__________________
"without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible"
F-Zappa
  #25  
Old 01/05/2008, 09:51 PM
bdare bdare is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Rockwall, TX
Posts: 304
Quote:
Originally posted by geoxman
IMHO---DFS is not responsible for testing their salt.
The manufacturer is and not the seller. Do you expect them to test every bucket they sell in the future?? It all falls back on the maker and not the seller. Now if the seller gets a bad batch and they take care of it- then they are a very good seller with good customer service.
What responsibility is on the end consumer to test? None?
IMO the customers responsibility to test is due to livelyhood of his inhabitants. More than anything this should drive home to peole that you should ALWAYS test new salt before you put it in your tank... EVEN when it comes from one of the most trusted manufactures in the business!
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef Central Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2009