North Dakota Mini-Ocean

["Umm, fish?"]

Thanks for the reply, though!

[erics3000]

great info

[spazz]

thanks for that video red. that is exactly what i thought it was. its not so much of a wave box and it is a place to house the tunze streams and keep them from showing in the tank.

i had a great time up in fargo with charles. he has a vision for his tank that is awesome. in the future im sure he will be sharing his thoughts and ideas for his dream reef that will be amazing.
the picture he has posted just do not do that house justice. it is one of the most beautiful houses i have ever been in. once the tank is done it will add so much to what he alredy has created there.

[ToddG]

Originally posted by Reefaquariumnut
I should have plenty of power in the room. I can plug most of the MH ballasts above and if i run out of power I can always run a longer cord to the floor where more power is. I plan on keeping the ballasts and lighting on a rack/track and if i need i can get longer cords (i've seen 30ft) to find power.

Maybe I wasn't clear before...I have 15 outlet boxes with 46 plug-ins. I have 6 dedicated 20A circuits in that room alone. When my electrical contractor and I were planning the room we added up what I thought I might need and added a couple more. I saw Steve Weast was running 5800W on 4 dedicated 20A circuits. I will be running about half of those Watts on a tank half of his size. I re-checked again and I think I have 40A on the ceiling with 4 outlet boxes and 8 plug-ins.

I havent read the entire thread so sorry if it was mentioned later.

But have you thought about running some of the high draw items like return pumps off 220v versus 110v?

I have heard a number of people talk about it being much better. I cant explain the benefits but maybe someone will chime in that knows.

[redwinger02]

There are no power savings when using 220v The only benefit is using smaller wire and it cuts the amp draw way down. IMO it is only beneficial when you are limited in amps and you don't want to upgrade your service.

[redwinger02]

Lets say you have 100amp service and you were drawing 60 amps total in the house with everything running and you were looking at adding an additional 40amps, You are at the breaking point of the main circuit so you would look at cutting those extra 40 amps down by running the high amp draw components at 220v. Running 220v effectively cuts your amp draw in half.

[Elliott]

I have heard that 220 is more efficient, but have never understood why

[redwinger02]

Watts are watts and that is what the power company charges by is kilowatts. If a 400w ballast is running 120v or 220v it is still running 400 watts. So it is not more energy efficient in the sense of what your bill is every month. You will not save any money on your electric bill by running 220v. voltage x amps = watts.

120v X 3.3 amps = 400w
220v X 1.8 amps = 400w

The only difference is the amp draw.

[DaveMorris]

220v is more efficient than 120v but only from a thermal standpoint. Because the current draw is cut in half, less heat is generated in certain types of equipment. Motors, for instance run better. I'm not sure if it would really make a difference in how a ballast runs. Redwing is correct...Watts is watts, and ultimately you are still using the same amount of power.

[spazz]

the only time you really save money is when you go to 3 phase power. its alot cheaper to run halide lights off 277 3 phase than it is to run it off single phase. i have 8 400w halides in my shop that run at least 10 hrs a day plus all the other equipment that i run, and my power bill is only $120 a month.

[jnarowe]

that is true and your motors tend to last longer as well, but most people are not going to switch over to 3-phase. Even my grocery store is just single phase. I wish it weren't!

[Reefaquariumnut]

Well, I was hoping Scott would explain all we talked about...We spoke non-stop for like 6 hours!! Well let me see what I remember and if scott remembers something I forgot I hope he chimes in.

Lighting - After much thought and deliberation we thought 8-250K HQI (20K) would be the way to go. We will suppliment those lights with T5's around the perimeter if needed. The lights will be on a rack and track system that will be able to lower and raise the MH as well as slide the whole rack away from the tank for maintenance. The ballasts will also be mounted to the rack.

Sumps - The sump system will be consisted of two 65 gallon sumps on each end of the tank. One of the sumps will also have a 25 gallon refugium in it (fed by a 1" drain in the overflow). Each overflow will drain into the respective sump as well as feed the Volcano skimmer. The return pump will be a Dart that will be plumbed to 2 - 1" Seaswirls on the two rear corners of the tank.

Skimmer - Scott will design a skimmer that is between the "Shorty" and the "6-footer"...Somthing that will handle a full-blown, fully-stocked reef. The 2" drains in the overflows will tie together and gravity feed the Volcano. The Volcano skimmate cup will also be tied into my sink drain.

Closed Loop System - We will have 2 - 2" drains feed a Dart that will return through an OM-4way and 4 - 1 1/2" returns. The returns will have a custom acrylic flange and an acrylic channel that will be hidden under the sand and rock. The channel will have holes every 6-8" and the ones we use will have lock-line attached and "weaved" through the rockwork to remain hidden. The unused holes will have plugs.

Water Movement - This will be done by 4 - Tunze 6301's in the four corners of the tank hidden in a special acrylic plate covered by live rock. Scott seemed to think we could custom program the Tunze's by a Neptune 3 pro to create an ocean algorithm (i need to call neptune to see if this is true).

Calcium, Kalk, Phosphate Reactors - All being built by Scott and will be placed in the middle section under the tank.

RO/DI - 75 Gallon a day 6 stage RO/DI unit with dual TDS meters. This will be hooked up to 2 - 100 gallon drums in my mechanical room about 15 feet away. The drums will have the capability to mix saltwater and have a hose long enough to do the water changes. The top-off water will be controlled through a LiterMeter III and a custom built acrylic tank that will feed the sump.

Carbon - Will be filtered through a Magnum 350 canister filter.

Hospital/Quarentine/Frag tanks - The hospital tank will be a tenecor 150 gallon tank I already have. The quarentine and frag tanks will be custom built by Scott on a rack system. All tanks will have their own sumps (custom built), lighting (T5's), and protien skimmers (Euroreef).

Special Tank - One great idea Scott had was to tie in my bar and fishtank. This will be accomplished by making a 50 gallon tall tank part of the backspash in my bar. The bar and fishroom share a common wall that I will have my carpenter cut and finish a "viewing hole". The tank will be plumbed into the 600 gallon system and will be fed through the refugium. The tank will be dedicated to seahorses, pipefish, and other small fish.

I think that is it. Scott please chime in if I forgot something. Everyone else, please ask questions or leave comments!!

[jnarowe]

It's called the AquaSurf and is a Neptune add-on for the Tunze line. It has a superset of programmable options all the way to 1/10 sec. intervals. You won't believe the control you will have. Check out Neptune's forum for lots of info.

[Elliott]

looks pretty bullet proof to me. I would think a 150g hospital tank may be too large. Having it smaller (25-50g) would make water changes, treatments, catching livestock, lighting, keeping it clean, etc. much easier?

[Reefaquariumnut]

The reason I am using the 150 gallon is I already have it...It might be a bit large, but I have room for it and I wouldn't need to buy something else.

[Elliott]

I too have a 110 and considered using it as a hospital tank, but it's too much work, easier to use a small tank, the're cheap

[Reefaquariumnut]

Another reason I would think a larger tank is more beneficial is the ability to put a large show fish and not having them feel confined. I still have the room to add another tank in the future is the 150 does not work well.

[Elliott]

qt in one thing but trying to catch a specific fish (sick) in my reef is impossible

[Reefaquariumnut]

I follow you...Well I can just switch them around...the QT being the 150 and the hospital being the smaller 50 gallon tank.

[spazz]

it really wont matter how big the tank is for the hospital tank. you an remove all the hoding places in the tank and take a skeet of plastic to heard the fish into the corner and then scoop him up. there is no sence in haing a frag/quarintee tank that is that deep.
i feel it would be ebst to use the big tank for fish and the smaller tanks for corals. becasue the 2 tanks in the rack ssytem will be seperate from each other he can house frags in one tank and treat corals in the other tank. then once all the corals are treated and are health charles can turn that tank back into a frag tank for growing frags in.

i was not sure what your plans were charles for telling what you have planned for this system. i didnt want to let the cat out of the preverbal bag. so i left that up to you.
we are going to use a version of the wave box to hide the tunze stream in. these rock walls will also provide charles with a place to put tabling acors on or stags so it will hide the equiptment even more. this will give the tank a really clean look. the only plumbing you will be able to see will be the 2 returns through the sea swirls in the corners. everything else will be covered up with the rock work or behind hidden pannels. we will have to do this project in 3 stages. first will be to set up the coral frag tanks so he can start to obtain corals and make sure they are healthy. these can be in the 2 tanks and have thre treatments to make sure there is no pest on them. then is the main instalation of the sub systems. all the plumbing and flow pumps will need to be installed so the rock work can be macked up and put in the tank with the sand bed.
the third stage will be the instalation of the lighting and other equiptment he wont need on line until the system is done cycling. he can let the tank cycle for 30-60 days while he finishes the installation of the rest of the equiptment. once the system is stable and cycled he can start the stocking process of the main tank. the 150 gallon tank will house the fish he finds before the main tank is finished. the big tank can house alot more fish than the little tanks could. these fish can be kept there for 2-3 months and monitored for desease and ick.

[Elliott]

I'm very interested to see how you will hide everything, this will be a great thread.

Very good idea to keep all the fish in the 150 holding tank until they are confirmed to not carry disease, then transfer to the display.

My 500g system cylcled in just 3 days so you may not have to wait that long.

[Reefaquariumnut]

My wife is almost more excited about this project than I am...weird!!

Scott - Should I start buying corals and housing them in my 150 gallon tank? Or was that just for fish holding? Either way I need a new sump/protien skimmer system for that tank. I am going to get my stand guy to come over tomorrow and get him started on those two stands.

I am going to order the equipment list we spoke about yesturday next week and get the air exchanger installed in the next week as well.

Once I get the two tanks from you I think things will speed up.

Let me know if you need anything from me.

[Reefaquariumnut]

My wife is almost more excited about this project than I am...weird!!

Scott - Should I start buying corals and housing them in my 150 gallon tank? Or was that just for fish holding? Either way I need a new sump/protien skimmer system for that tank. I am going to get my stand guy to come over tomorrow and get him started on those two stands.

I am going to order the equipment list we spoke about yesturday next week and get the air exchanger installed in the next week as well.

Once I get the two tanks from you I think things will speed up.

Let me know if you need anything from me.

[Reefaquariumnut]

My wife is almost more excited about this project than I am...weird!!

Scott - Should I start buying corals and housing them in my 150 gallon tank? Or was that just for fish holding? Either way I need a new sump/protien skimmer system for that tank. I am going to get my stand guy to come over tomorrow and get him started on those two stands.

I am going to order the equipment list we spoke about yesturday next week and get the air exchanger installed in the next week as well.

Once I get the two tanks from you I think things will speed up.

Let me know if you need anything from me.

[Reefaquariumnut]

500 gallons in three days!?!? You must have cheated and used pure ocean water...