who out there goes with a bare bottom tank. Just live rock and no substrate?

[Aged Salt]

Jerel, I agree that with the really strong currents possible with bb, one needs only 1/3 the amt. normally used Bob

[Bomber]

and since you're not supporting all the other critters, worms, bacteria, detritus, etc etc associated with having any kind of sand in the tank....

It just keeps getting easier and easier and easier....................

[Reefer Maddness]

One day I too hope to have an eight word post spawn 2100+ replies.

[Aged Salt]

RM, do you think the controversial subject matter had anything to do with it? Bob

[Aged Salt]

Geesh, Jerel, maybe you're on to something Bob

[Bomber]

It's all about phosphates.

[Bomber]

and the bacteria that love them.

[Aged Salt]

Bomber, all living organisms lov'em, except ****-sapiens-reeferus Bob

[BOTR]

So , it lives again. Just added an Aqua Sea 5200 to my BB. That pump really kicks. Totaly eliminated all dead spots in my 4x4. BTW did the board really edit out **** or was that just for some splash?
Chris

[BOTR]

NVM my post answered that question.

[absolut]

geez... please, I am a h o m o sapien, is that O.K.??

[tankgirl2]

Hi all,
I posted a poll asking for info on the amount of water changed in barebottom tanks - per month.
Here's the thread;
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=287027

[Bomber]

tg2

I run BB, but I can't vote on the poll cause I don't fit in. I set the tank back up BB in late July/early August. I did one almost 100% water change (NSW) about a month later to remove the last of the detritus that was coming out of the rocks and re-set the tank, and haven't done a water change since.
So I guess I would vote no water changes, except as soon as the weather clears I'm going to do another 100% NSW water change just for the heck of it. Nothing is out of whack, I just like doing that a few times a year.

[CrittersO'theC]

I have decided to go BT. I ripped out my DSB and exposed the clean, shiny bare bottom. NO MORE CRITTERS! NO MORE HASSLES!

I decided to take it one more step furter though. I got tired of having to syphon out the poop created by all the fish so I decided to take them out too. NO MORE FISH! AND NO SCOOPING POOP!

It looks awesome!!! Very clean looking.... just the corals and inverts. Although I am constantly cleaning the glass of coralline algae.

If I didn't have the corals and inverts I wouldn't have to have water either. I saw some really cool plastic "simulated corals" in the LFS the other day... hmmm, I could trade all my corals to the LFS for the plastic ones and hey! I wouldn't even need any water!!! NO MORE WATER AND GOODBYE SCRAPING THE GLASS!!!

Just think of it..... Water so clean in your tank your friends would swear it was full of air! When they ask about the fish, just tell them they're hiding. No tank water makeup, no spills, no expensive lights, no ordering ANYTHING!!! this is gonna be great!!! I know, I know... I'm really brainstorming here!.. and I can keep the top covered so I don't have to ever clean any dust out!!!!. JUST AN EMPTY TANK AND MY COUCH!!! LIFE IS GREAT!!!!

I may even buy a picture of a tank and tape it to the inside of the glass!...... nah, that'd look cheap...

[gregt]

Gotta love your logic COC. Let's take it a bit further the other way. It's not a natural tank without a few thousand whales.....

[Bomber]

COC likes to clean. LOL

[Aged Salt]

COC, with new "new method" you could even add a p/dsb It might last longer than mine Bob

[jason412]

Hey all,
I just set up my 75g reef tank again after having to leave the hobby a good 6 or so years back. I started it up about a month ago and things are really coming together. I did come along all of the new ideas of refugiums and such that I did not hear about when I was keeping my tank previously. I put about 1-2" at the deepest part in the main tank of sand since I have another 33g tank Im using as a refugium and was thinking about trying out a DSB until I registered here and came across this article. I used to be a BB reefer and I was just wondering if I abonded the DSB and just grew mangroves, macro's and etc. if anyone has had relative success with plants and algaes instead of a DSB. Also will that inch or 2 in the main tank really be a problem assuming I have good husbandry habits haha ? just wondering since I dont know what to expect from the sand since this is my first tank to have any substrate at all.
Jason

[Aged Salt]

Jason, many reefers use macroalgae/mangroves in their refugium to remove nutrients[especially P04-'s]--some use them in their main tank[especially in Europe] Problem with this, is sometimes the algae goes sexual, & releases the nutrients back into the tank water Try to obtain Chaetomorpha, as it does not have this tendency. Regardless of the depth of your sand bed , do funnel-syphoning or stirring on a regular basis to remove any nutrient waste build-up,Bob

[YYZ_125G]

I have been lurking on this thread for a while (I just caught up). Found it extremely valuable while setting up my new 125 gallon. Bomber your tank is sweet. I wish I had seen your tank pictures before I set my rock formation. I used some dead rock to fill out my tank, but your tank really shows how less can be more. I also scattered a little crushed coral on the bottom to break up the glass look, guess I will yank it out in the future.

One thing I find interesting, through out this thread and others is a recurring theme of trying to duplicate nature. Something like the oceans are huge ecosystems so I need a large sand bed or sump. I.E. so large it requires motorcycles for stirring.

What about looking from the other direction. What is the ratio of reef to the total volume of world’s oceans? Pretty insignificant I guess (with the wealth of knowledge on this thread, I am sure someone knows this off the top of there head). Say, the world’s oceans were scaled back to the size of my 125g tank. How much rock would I have, how big of a sand bed? Can someone say magnifying glass required?

Under the banner of simulating nature, reefers load up their tanks with live rock and sand for the benefits it brings. All that is accomplished is increasing mass and bio load to further move the ratio away from what works in nature.

Building a stable home for the creatures we care for that appeals to the owner’s eye is the ultimate goal. It seems to me trying to duplicate nature with tools like sand beds is doomed fail. I think this thread is right on target. Use technological tools like skimmers, good husbandry techniques, and keep bio load low. Personally I would like one extra fish or coral instead of an ugly bio loaded sand bed.

Here is a link to a thread on my new system.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=288531

Thanks again, Daniel

[Aged Salt]

Daniel, if you've read all this Your rock-scaping is good, Many X's less is more, not only with rock-work but with bioload, lighting, etc. If you get tired of changing out your pump blu-bond-filter[don't leave in past 3 days], you might consider the easier removal of a filter sock on the tank return into the sump,Bob

[AlgaeMan]

I'm so glad I listened to you all and went BB when starting over. The tank is about 2.5 months old and is supporting about 10 fish, 70+ snails, 50+ SPS colonies/frags, 6 LPS colonies, and a few hermits and Mithrax crabs. No detectable Nitrates or phosphates. All the SPS have polyp extension 24/7 and are growing at a very fast rate. Knowing there is no chance of a DSB crashing is a major relief. I feel as long as I keep up on the husbandry and don't add to many more fish there is little chance that the system will crash.

[YYZ_125G]

Bob, I got rid of the blu-bond on the pump, but I going to use it while doing tank maintenance to catch any loose poop. I like the nylon’s as filter socks. I just pull the pvc pipes they are on, take to sink, turn nylon inside, out and rinse. They really quite the return flow with the holes I have in the pvc pipe. I actually have a coarse skimmer effect going. The air in returns is busted up by holes in the pipes, travels up the inside of nylons and crap sticks to the inside of nylons above the water line. Daniel

[Aged Salt]

Sounds sound.Bob

[Aged Salt]

A-M, good news Bob