Why are LFS prices so high? - Page 6

sequential · #**126** 02/22/2006, 01:22 AM

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Many of you have stated that for smaller ticket items, i.e. meds, foods, etc you buy local and for larger items you shop online. Does that mean we are wasting our time stocking pumps, filters, etc?

You might consider designing, or, if your budget allows, paying to have designed what is known as a market survey. You can read up on it in a variety of undergraduate level marketing books or you can find a local college, talk to a marketing professor, and find a willing college student to do it for extra credit. The answer for a small, local business is going to be tailored to your current customers and your available market.

I buy all of my food and small supplies at the LFS, even if I can buy it much cheaper online. It's a convenience thing. Generally, when I need these items, I need them today. Bulbs are another thing that might fit into this category. If one breaks, I need one today.

As for livestock: live rock and a clean up crew "package". A big stock of reasonably priced live rock, even if you cultured it yourself to save money, is a thing of beauty. Same with live sand, several different tanks of biologically diverse live sand would be nice. Notice I'm sticking to basics. Have your basics covered. Run a special on live sand once a month with a different supply of live sand, to encourage your aquarists to come in and pick up a few pounds of new live sand. It's a good habit for them, and when they come in your store, you can have a display that might just encourage them to put down a few dollars.

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Do you even check locally before buying filters and pumps or do you just assume were too pricey and go straight to the internet?

No. After I did some basic research, I just buy them online now. Occassionally I'll pick up a pump at a LFS and just sigh. I'd keep a couple on hand for display and replace the number that sell during the week.

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What about livestock?

If you keep nice, healthy displays, livestock can be a huge impulse buy for many hobbyists.

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whats your opinion of COOL?

Try running a few tanks or shelves of "specials" every week. They can be things you normally don't carry or discounted items. They should be prominantly displayed. If it's discounted items that are normally in the store, there should be signage and/or move the items to a different tank/shelf. People are impressed with a rotating stock. Change things up a bit. As a bonus, people will come back just for the specials.

XeniaMania · #**127** 02/22/2006, 01:25 AM

For an e-commerce company, your website is your salesperson and whatever information is placed on it could be "objective" in a nice term, but it very well could be bias as well. Don't get me wrong, I never use absolutes because I know there will be that 1 or 2 site/salesperson that will go against the norm. I'm one of them, I won't sell you something I want to sell you, I'd sell you something that you want/need. My statements are never meant to be an absolute rule, but a more general rule of thumb. But are the information on websites always accurate? Not always. Either way, there's always going to be good information and bad information, and much like reef keeping, it will be up to the person on what they determine is best,useful,logical,etc. To me, that is what makes this hobby fun and exciting, because someone will come up with something you never thought of, or someone will absolutely love your idea and use it.
In regards to purchasing online versus store; I won't say I purchase 100% dry goods online. There are times when I'm in a rush and I'll get it locally, and there are times when it's cheaper locally than online. I've seen LFS here in SoCali come and go, or change owners and the most successful ones carry a diversity of products, but also, at the same time, I've caught some purposefully giving bad tips like say...selling a trigger to cycle a tank, which does drive sales, but horrible for their reputation if caught. As my former boss told me "everyone's gotta watch out for themselves"
I am not immune to this online buying trend either. I do have customers who'll try to slash my prices by telling me they find it online for X dollars. My simple reply is, how valuable is your time plus don't forget shipping and smile...

Sorry for rambling on..

XeniaMania · #**128** 02/22/2006, 01:35 AM

When I see NFS (Not For Sale) corals, makes me visit the shop over and over again to see if they're finally on sale. Sometimes the price is steep like $10/polyp for cloves, but since I've been visitting the place so many times to see wassup, I jump on the chance to buy it. Sometimes I'll see something I'll really want, and I'll ask just out of curiousity even though it's NFS, if it's within reason and my budget, I'd splurge on it.

sequential · #**129** 02/22/2006, 01:42 AM

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"objective" in a nice term, but it very well could be bias as well

The reason websites tend to be more objective is because the information can be easily verified without the intervention of the website owner. High pressure sales sites and frauds aside, any ecommerce site that puts bias in front of facts is hurting themselves. Sure, there's marketing information all over many websites, especially for things like consumer electronics, but the ability to search for reviews and customer experience is king. At the local fish store, even if you are providing textbook objectivity, without being able to get third party reviews, a consumer can't purchase with the same confidence. That's of course, where trust comes in. It doesn't sound to me like that's a big issue for you, but for your customers, it may be a whole different ball of wax. (My comments aren't meant to be a slight to LFS owners or employees. There's just certain limitations of each style of business. Objectivity is inherantly limited in brick and mortar, which produces a high level of cognative dissonance.)

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But are the information on websites always accurate?

Is the moon made of cheese?

XeniaMania · #**130** 02/22/2006, 01:47 AM

You forgot the "Not Always" statement after that..

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But are the information on websites always accurate? Not always.

sequential · #**131** 02/22/2006, 01:49 AM

Fmellish · #**132** 02/22/2006, 01:50 AM

When I care about wasting money I shop online.

on those occassions when I do'nt care about wasting money I go to the LFS and waste money.

Josh

toto · #**133** 02/22/2006, 02:22 AM

wow..this is great..just what i was looking for..burnt out, we sell fluval 404 for $169.99.. i checked doc fosters they have it for 124.99 plus $10.99 shipping... are we close enough?? i agree with the yellow tang comment, i was just trying to give you an example. BTW yellow tangs in this neck of the woods are sold anywhere from 18 to20 dollars.
sequen - great advise!! we do some of that now, but your right we should make a habit out of it. i have to hit the sack now...its late and 6am will be here before i know it. i cant wait to read everyones thoughts in the morning. keep 'em coming. good nite.

XeniaMania · #**134** 02/22/2006, 02:29 AM

My local LFS sells the Maxijet 1200 for $22.95. That was one of m y recent LFS purchases, let see what else have I purchased...
2 HydroFlo attachments $19.99, $17.99 for 2nd one
Tetra Nitrate Kit $9.99
Rio 600 pump $24.99
Denitrate $16.99
Algone $8.99
My metal halide kit was bought used over 3 years ago tho..

toto · #**135** 02/22/2006, 02:35 AM

one more thing.... we are an exclusive saltwater shop and fluvals or any canisters arent on our top 10 list of filters to offer our s/w customers. we prefer other methods of filtration like wet/dry, refugiums, and for the hobbyist that has a smaller system and doesnt have the $$$ for that type of filtration i would even suggest some sort of hang on like cpr bak pak in conjunction with a good power filter like the emperor over a closed system like a canister filter. For the sake of just price comparison for the online customer i suppose a fluval works as well as anything. But im not sure that were as competitive on the fluval as we might be on other items.

dhnguyen · #**136** 02/22/2006, 02:53 AM

Here's one thing that one of my LFS does that is hugely successful. Every Sunday they have a 20-30-40 sale on all livestock. First item 20% off, second item 30% off, and third item 40% off. Their store is always PACKED on a Sunday and people more often than not buy other stuff besides livestock. It's the sale that brings in the customers and once they're there they're bound to see and buy. Simple marketing but it works.

D.

XeniaMania · #**137** 02/22/2006, 02:53 AM

I think most of us understand the concept of overhead and such. Business in today's world is starting to evolve into volume. Unless you have really skilled sales people who can sell an entire setup in 1 try, chances are the best way to make money is to get t he product to move by pricing a little bit higher than online pricing. I think that way, most buyers are willing to spend a few bucks more just to get the item sooner, however, taxes are a huge benefit of buying online since you don't pay tax out of state.
At my old company , we had sales people who would help customers out on the retail showroom, only to tell them to call our internet number to get internet pricing, that's business cannibalism. Products in the store sold for $299.95 were selling for $249.95 online.

MarkD40 · #**138** 02/22/2006, 10:37 AM

Toto,

I wanted replace the pump that powers my skimmer and went to my LFS to purchase a new one. The lowest price in town for a mag7 pump was $119.99. Because it wasn't an emergency I ordered it online for 54.99 with shipping and got it in 3 days. It would have been nice to just but it locally and I would have done so if the price was $80 or so.

Now if my main circulation pump went out and I had to replace it immediately I would be forced to pay way more than double the online price and would be forced to do so in an emergency but I would be really angry afterwards. As I said in an earlier post:

"When I pay $47.00 for a powerhead at my LFS that I can buy for $16.99 online, it does not make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside because I am doing a good thing by supporting a good retail store, it makes me feel unappreciated as a loyal customer and really dumb."

It is not fair to expect that because you give your regular customers advice that they in return must pay whatever price you charge out of loyalty to you. I am not looking for the best price and will give my business to my LFS if the prices are not unreasonable. My LFS does have good prices on salt and substrate which are costly to ship. But a little powerhead is nearly 3 times the online price. Go figure!

XeniaMania · #**139** 02/22/2006, 10:53 AM

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Originally posted by dhnguyen
Here's one thing that one of my LFS does that is hugely successful. Every Sunday they have a 20-30-40 sale on all livestock. First item 20% off, second item 30% off, and third item 40% off. Their store is always PACKED on a Sunday and people more often than not buy other stuff besides livestock. It's the sale that brings in the customers and once they're there they're bound to see and buy. Simple marketing but it works.

This is doable on livestock because they typically carry a 200-300% mark up. Fireshrimps are a good example. Wholesale they're typically $8-$10 but a lot of places sell them for $25.

boodwah · #**140** 02/22/2006, 11:28 AM

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Originally posted by toto
ok.. i just went through and re-read this entire thread. i think we can all agree that the whole price thing is a serious issue. Like i said before, i get it, im listening, and i am also reacting. I really appreciate all of your input. There is one more issue that your LFS needs your input on. One thing i have noticed is posters stating that their LFS should scrap all of their "old stuff" and get with the program. Keep up with the times. I guess what im asking is... in your opinions..what would you like to see your LFS stock? I am talking about both dry goods and livestock. Many of you have stated that for smaller ticket items, i.e. meds, foods, etc you buy local and for larger items you shop online. Does that mean we are wasting our time stocking pumps, filters, etc? Should we only stock smaller items? Are we not stocking the right pumps and filters? Do you even check locally before buying filters and pumps or do you just assume were too pricey and go straight to the internet? What about livestock? To give you a brief example of what im talking about... i had a customer ask me the other day what kinda cool stuff we were getting in this week? i respond "well, what did ya have in mind? Are you looking for something inpeticular?" he says "nah, i dunno, just something cool." ok...i need more than that...whats your opinion of COOL? Some people think cool is a yellow tang while others are thinking of a conspiculatis angel.. Im not asking you to place my livestock and dry good orders. Just asking for suggestions. If were not stocking the right stuff who better to ask then the people are are making all of the purchases. Any input you have on this subject would be greatly appreciated. You've been awesome so far, so i figure you'll continue the trend. Thanks for your help.

Wow, that was a lot of reading! Here is my take on stocking items:
Pumps, lights, skimmers, canister filters, etc. are expensive and tie up a lot of the LFS's cash in inventory while the hobbyists are ordering them online for close to or less than what you have tied up in them. They are going to be slow movers. You can always say, "Hey, I'm all out. But I can special order one just for you." Sell it to them for a reasonable profit.
Tanks, stands, and canopys: These items are expensive AND risky to ship. I'd prefer to buy local and inspect the very one I buy.
Consumables such as food, salt, chemistry, etc.: Why bother ordering? That stuff we might as well buy local,
Livestock: Buy local
Miscellaneous and Emergency items: Local of course

poppin_fresh · #**141** 02/22/2006, 11:59 AM

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Originally posted by MarkD40
Toto,

"When I pay $47.00 for a powerhead at my LFS that I can buy for $16.99 online, it does not make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside because I am doing a good thing by supporting a good retail store, it makes me feel unappreciated as a loyal customer and really dumb."

Like I said earlier, many LFS's cant sell that powerhead for 16.99 because they are at the mercy of thier distributor. They probably paid almost $30 for it because they aren't buying 500 units.

Thats the one thing I like about Tunze, they require all dealers to sell at the same price. I can support my LFS by buying from them and not have to worry about paying way more than some online place. Its proably why some of the huge e-tailers dont carry Tunze, because they cant get volume advantage, so why bother.

firefish2020 · #**142** 02/22/2006, 02:26 PM

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... Its proably why some of the huge e-tailers dont carry Tunze, because they cant get volume advantage, so why bother...

That has more to do with the minimum oder you have to place which most LFS just can not invest in. TUNZE does have a volume discount though Im not sure where you got that they dont.

hotredjag · #**143** 02/22/2006, 02:36 PM

The more I read, the more I think there are a lot of crummy fish stores out there. We do have a website, just to show our suppliers that we are more than 2 sw tanks in the back room. Suppliers are reluctant to even talk to people in Kansas thinking we are a giant wheatfield. Toto has a beautiful store, they really know their stuff and try very hard. I don't mind talking about my competition at all.

poppin_fresh · #**144** 02/22/2006, 03:01 PM

I'm sure Tunze does have a volume discount, but it is kept by the merchant and is not passed on to the customer. I simply meant that a big merchant cant buy 1000 streams, get a huge volume discount and pass it along, therby undercutting everyone else. They still have to sell at the MSRP.

firefish2020 · #**145** 02/22/2006, 08:05 PM

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I simply meant that a big merchant cant buy 1000 streams, get a huge volume discount and pass it along,

Sure they could but why would they want to? Simple supply and demand. TUNZE units are on back order all the time, because they are worth every dollar and the retailers know that, it's a guaranteed sell. If we carried TUNZE there is no way I would be selling them any cheaper than the online shops you simply don't have to with this particular product. That said it's the only product I can think of that gets such a treatment, the rest are wants, most all TUNZE products are must haves IMO.

poppin_fresh · #**146** 02/22/2006, 08:44 PM

Actually, Tunze's dealers agree to sell thier products for the prices that Tunze sets, or they aren't allowed to sell it. It has nothing to do with demand and everything to do with what Tunze says.

I would agree that thier products are must haves!

marcom1234 · #**147** 02/22/2006, 09:06 PM

i think most local fish stores try to "do it all" dog food cat food reptiles bunnies adoption fish so on and so on..... if i had just one store that just did fish i think it would be great and id shop there all the time

firefish2020 · #**148** 02/22/2006, 10:41 PM

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Actually, Tunze's dealers agree to sell thier products for the prices that Tunze sets, or they aren't allowed to sell it. It has nothing to do with demand and everything to do with what Tunze says.

Perhaps I missunderstood the contract they sent us, the only thing I saw that they required was a minimum order on our part? The more we ordered the bigger the discount. They sent us a SMRP but I dont remeber seeing anything about an absolute set price. Of course they could have changed things since then I dont know but that would make sense.

marcom1234 · #**149** 02/23/2006, 06:43 PM

i like the idea of LFS's buying from online wholesalers

charles6299 · #**150** 02/23/2006, 07:45 PM

everybody seems to be missing the point, we all will be sorry the day these chain pet stores and internet sales wipe out the LFS...then what are we left with ? 16 year old girls talking about their homecoming date and dumb jocks talking about their groin injury .....the point is service ! who helps you when you need it ? who do you ask questions to when your not sure ? if you don't support the LFS, then don't waist their time !