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#101
09/09/2007, 02:59 PM
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I am not worried about who get's what patent and how they should re-shape the cone?? or who can sell what skimmer in the US. Let's talk about something we have control over.
It's about the skimmate    
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#102
09/09/2007, 03:19 PM
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The snow cone/cotton candy skimmer seem to kicks [violation]
Last edited by Nanook; 11/30/2007 at 06:21 PM. |
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#103
09/09/2007, 04:51 PM
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Okay, lets talk about something we have control over... yes. That is exactly what I am talking about here. We have control over what we buy. We have control over the companies we give our money to, and the people they support. A single video on YouTube can bring Apple to its knees, and a single thread on Reef Central can initiate a change in the industry as a whole. ATB didnt even have a US distributor until I started posting their pictures.
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"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Al Einstein |
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#104
09/09/2007, 06:15 PM
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^ Agreed.
Another good example. All the MJ mod threads on the DIY forum... All of a sudden there's the Hydor Koralia and Tunze nano stream  I could say the same for the Reef Octopus skimmers as well. No one ever even heard of them until I posted a thread about them. |
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#105
09/09/2007, 08:45 PM
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That comment was meant to be filled with sarcasm.
 I see no problem with ATB distributing their skimmers in the US. KZ does not stand a chance on patening the cone skimmer. KZ's are beckett, ATB skimmers are needlewheel and if they can patent the cone design, then watch out ice cream makers, there going after you next. I have studied patent law and tried to get a few patent's myself. I have worked directly with a patent firm. You should see the ideas that come through the doors. It also cost's lots of money, but with the price of ZEO and the new skimmers, I think they might have a little. I just want to see more pics and info on these skimmers and try to minimize the legal jargon that goes with the business side of this hobby. |
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#106
09/09/2007, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
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#107
09/09/2007, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Zeo Site = spend more money and time on your tank!!! BK,ZEO,KZ SKIMMER $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
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#108
09/10/2007, 12:14 AM
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And they teach you how to photoshop very well too. he he.
Yeah, I say the cone shape isnt patentable either...  The ASM there might as well be an ATI bubblemaster as well.
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"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Al Einstein |
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#109
09/10/2007, 01:16 AM
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Heck, maybe Spazz is next to get told he has to quit making cone shape skimmers...
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"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Al Einstein |
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#111
09/12/2007, 12:39 AM
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Well, I have an update. After talking with the USPTO, they have no record of the KZ patent. The only patent it appears KZ has filed is the German one. If this is the case, claiming 'patent pending' is actually illegal, and trying to force ATB to stay out of the US market by claiming a patent is highly illegal.
Im not going to get into details, but every response from KZ about the patent is responded to with 'stalling', and other facts being spit out that arent relevant, and details that dont add up. Something tells me its a hoax. If so, KZ could get in serious legal trouble... a fine at least. Even at that, if its just a patent applied for, its not able to be enforced until its approved, so ATB is in the clear. And if it was/is applied for, you can bet there will be a few disputes filed. Also... on a seemingly unrelated note... KZ dropped all their prices today, and some of their dealers are talking about carrying the ATB skimmers instead due to the KZ's lack of sales.
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"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Al Einstein |
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#112
09/14/2007, 06:15 AM
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Hallo,
I, or better say my company is importing ATB skimmers and other equipment here in Macedonia. All I can say for you US firends, I hope you will have a chance to have an ATB products, and I wish Your supplier have the same support as we here in Europe. The best support we ever have for any products we recive from ATB. We do not know much abouth this patenet story, but looks to us like childish school play
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#113
09/14/2007, 10:53 AM
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Hahn what is the point of all your ranting and raving about these skimmers ? I dont get it. You really are getting annoying with all of this.
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#114
09/14/2007, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
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ReefRockerLive's water chemistry: Is on the road to recovery! Everything looks nice though ;) |
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#116
09/14/2007, 11:08 AM
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It's a public forum, anyone can post their opinion, including tanya...and hahn...
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#117
09/14/2007, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
This patent stuff is interesting. I work in Industrial Design (known as Styling to some) and am familiar with the patent process. I have patents on concept sketches. I also have patents on products being used on vehicles. The patents are design patents, as opposed to something like a transmission or engine that describes a particular function. Some argue that patents can't be made on looks. I have proof otherwise. My point?? You can patent anything and some companies patent everything. If anybody needs a good patent attorney, I know several. My best friend lives in Wash. D.C. and is a patent attorney with a firm there. Kind of dry if you ask me, but he likes it. He would say the same about my reef tanks though. As for Spazz, if he were to add a rib or something to that cone, I belive his design would be different and possibly patentable. As for this thread. I like it. It's got some good information backed up with proof. It's not just opinion. Keep going Hahn, I'm reading.
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~Team Arctic Cat~ Let it snow, I have a hobby to pay for!!! |
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#118
09/14/2007, 01:25 PM
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The patent system is broken (speaking for the US - I have no knowledge of the patent systems outside the US) ... largely due to the fact that its, 1) a system rule by government which is in an of itself broken, inefficient, and a waste of taxpayers money, and 2) the system is dependent upon lawyers whose jobs, quite similar to government workers, is to accomplish as little as possible, while fleecing the client for as much money as possible (in the govs case, they are fleecing taxpayers).....
Whether or not there is a patent, isn't an issue for me, the KZ seems to be a great skimmer. I do not think that a potential patent threat was/is stopping ATB, RE or other firms from marketing their own concept. I think skimmers should only be judged on performance, which in and of itself is challenging enough as there is no one indicator of performance, i.e how much air intake, shape of contact chamber, water intake, etc... |
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#119
10/21/2007, 03:30 PM
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A Patent of a Conical-Design on skimmers, is real a good Joke. This technology is older as 30 years. The oldest skimmers from the 60.years, have a conical Design. Look the books from Peter Wilkens.
We building in Juny 2004 the first 3-4 pices 100 % Conical skimmers and sold this skimmers. We stoped the development of a total-Conical design....A 100 % Conical-Desing is not the best Construction for Skimmers. Many different points make a good skimmer. > the Design of the Bubble plate > the flow of air-and waterintake > the energyconsuption > the handling, noise and many more points.... I think, the best Constructions for skimmers is a mix from Column and conical shape 50./.50 % or 60./.40 % regards ..... Klaus
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klaus Jansen Last edited by Klaus Jansen; 10/21/2007 at 03:38 PM. |
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#120
10/21/2007, 03:38 PM
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Klaus,
Do you have any pictures of the 'totally conical' ones you made in 2004? That sounds interesting, just to see if nothing else. Why did you determine that 100% cone wasnt the best? So, I would assume that the ideal combo you have come up with of cone+cylinder is reflected by the new Supermarine?
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"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Al Einstein |
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#121
10/21/2007, 04:04 PM
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@Jon.....
the turbulences inside a 100 % Total-Conical-Design is to much. No way inside the Column for loosing the turbulences... It is not possible for maximum airintake in a Total-Conical-Skimmer. By the first Prototypes where we bulding, we must reduce strong the airintake , for become dark skimmate. In Comparsion with standart BK with normal Column, was the conical-Skimmer not the Winner and so i stoped the development and sold the skimmers in Ebay... So i wondering, three years later come a Taiwan-Company and patented the old Conical-Design....  I think, the Conical-Design is a little Hype in the skimmer market... anouther Points are more important... The nozzles, the Needle/Meshwheels, the adjustable speed-motorblocks... here the Skimmer-Industry can make better Skimmers for the market, or not with the Design. You have a good Skimmerpump, you can flow the air-watermix in a Cube... and you have real a good skimmer... The battles of Skimmerdesign, Patented or not Patented, are not worth the money.....The second generation of BK Supermarines are ready in next time. This Construction is a mix from BK and first BK-Conical-Design skimmers. Pictures from the old Conical BK´s, i must look in my old PC.... best regards. Klaus - Cologne - Germany
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klaus Jansen |
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