PETCO bans all NEA Reef Club members!

[airinhere]

MeNo, I agree that steps should be taken to help improve the living conditions for any marine life being kept in captivity. The real question is how to go about doing this and when it is really needed.

I think this particular individual lost sight of both of these issues when it became personal for him. He sounds like he thrives on conflict. He boasts about being banned from two LFS and about how the people betrayed him without cause or conspire to follow him around. Sounds like paranoia or dementia of some sort more than good intentions.

As far as his actual methods he relates, this is a very one sided argument. I would be interested in hearing from the Petco or other LFS he is banned from. Their interpretation of these events could be wildly different. He seems to want to impose his control over a business (in the name of being helful). I do not know about you, but I dont want some guy coming in without any authority and then start telling me what to do with my own business. Even worse, if he organizes a group to harrass me, I would probably call the cops. Ever think that the LFS owners might really believe they are doing a good job already and this guy is just being harrassive for no good reason?

Again, I think any reef club that gets banned from all the local LFS are probably going about their business in the wrong way. Not only has their current leadership failed to correct a percieved (and maybe very real) problem at the local LFS, but it has compounded that failure by getting any member of the club blacklisted from those stores designed to support a reef club. I would critically look at when this guy came into a position of authority in the club and when the club started having problems in the community. Perhaps new leadership would be a better solution than protesting the LFS.

Case in point, I live in an area that used to have terrible relations with our LFS. New leadership, new relations. Right now, I think our club-LFS relations are about the best they have ever been. The club is a lot more fun when you can boast about being a part of it and know that the club is seen in a very positive light in your community.

[steve the plumb]

I don't think that to be true.I did get into a slight argument with an owner of the LFS I go to.It didn't get into the point of a big argument because I stopped plus the owner is a nice guy but he was flat wrong.I will tell you this that he has a forum on his web page and I did mention that I got red bugs from his corals.Now since I didn't buy corals from any other store and i had none in the tank before I knew they were from him plus my friend experienced the same problem.The guy was in denial he didn't like the fact that I mentioned the redbugs but then again he has a good business because he is french I live in french dominated province and a lot of his customers don't speak english to the point where they would go online to shop elsewhere nor do a lot of people have much info on online stores.You would think they do but I have seen many people getting into the hobby and rely on pet stores for information.Some are very good some are not.I myself won't buy anymore corals from this store.Even if they look great I won't buy from him because I got shafted in the past.

[airinhere]

But this is what I mean. The issue isn no longer about the corals and redbugs. It has become personal. It was the way the owner handled the situation and (like it or not) it was also the way you handled the situation.

LFS are held to an unfair standard by many experienced reefer because we often lose sight of the accumulated experience we have that most people dont have.

I remember thinking how confusing all the coral names were when I first started reefkeeping. Names! Ha! Not even the Latin ones usually.

Most LFS employees are little better educated than I was back then. Most of the experienced reefers running shops have thier own methods of reefkeeping that works and dont want a bunch of other methods being forced on them. LFS are not always right, but they at least try to answer the questions people pose to them. Even on RC people get answers wrong all the time and have to be corrected. Often the correction is a matter of specualtion as well and you can end up with two (or more) equally 'right' answers.

But your incident had only one casualty. You. The store keeps on trucking and probably doing as good a job at being a LFS any any other out there. Redbugs, flatworms, zoa spiders, nudibranches and a whoe slew of nasties come in with every new shipment a store recieves. A simple quarantine tank for each hobbyist at home would save countless people from having issues like this. People dont do this and then are angry when their corals or fish infect a display tank worth thousands.

You bought the coral, You put it straight into Your tank. yes, you should be mad at someone. But it is not fair to be mad at the guy who sold You the coral. He is only guilty of arguing with an angry customer, and that is never a good policy. Either refund/credit without question or refuse regardless of circumstances. Most stores refuse any refund for any marine animals.

[tgreene]

Ya know what, I too would love nothing more than to hear Petco's side of things.

There are countless threads on our forums which go into great detail about a number of issues with the 2 local stores, but how many of you "dissenters" have cared enough to actually take the time to read any of them. If you actually had read them, you might have noticed that these issues are anything but few and far between.

YES, the online reefkeeping community is typically far more advanced than "Suzi Fishkeeper", which means that we also know what to look for in regards to health issues & parameters. Additionally, it SHOULD also mean that we should all strive to educate and inform when the need arises, rather than bashing the few who actually do care enough to go out on a limb.

-Tim

[airinhere]

Tgreene, I agree that your local shops are problematic. But what they are problematic about and what you are most upset (or at least vocal) about are two different things. The shops suffer from mediocre (at best) maintenance. They also have personalities that are not receptive to different opinions from their own. The maintenance is an issue across te country. Your store gets its fish and corals from the same places everyone else does. They often arrive in pretty bad shape. Quarantine at a LFS scale is almost unheard of, but would be a good practice. The store ends up selling stuff that is sick or potentially dying. Not because they want to, but because otherwise they have nothing left to sell. Improper maintenance or substandard systems only magnify this issue. However, evn sick animals can be safely bought, quarantined at home and then later introduced to your own tank.

No LFS should ever be treated like a place of learning. It is a store. You go there to buy stuff. You go to a library or school or the internet to learn. Somehow that seperation has blurred in many peoples minds.

Sales is sales.

Most people do not need a V-8 excursion class SUV to take the kids to school and then go shopping. Salespersons talk the foolish into these sorts of purchases. Its not your fault these people are foolish. You can't protect them all, and its not fair to them that you should think yourself so much better than they are, that you should try to protect them. They are adults. Let them make their own decisions.

And here is what you seem to be the most upset about.

This sense of futility about these issues that you feel passionatly about and have considerable experience dealing with. The unresponsive LFS and the frustrated and maligned customers that you have to deal with. You want to help make the situation better. You believe your input would make the situation better. And you are willing to put your time into these efferts because it is something that is important to you.

And these LFS employees who will not listen to your input. In fact, the more you try to change them, the more they are going to dislike you. Its their job to run a LFS. You dont have any real position of authority with them. I am amazed they listened to you at all. Not many business owners will tolerate someone outside their business telling them how to run their shop.

And your going to hate this.

Its not your problem to fix. All you are ending up doing is creating added strife in your community. About something you really did enjoy. Now it becomes a source of tension in your life and in the life of the other people you involve.

Your club should have stopped shopping at those stores a long time ago. Getting banned as a club is a huge division in the community. I have no idea how to even address that topic.

This is something that can only be fixed by a complete replacement of the existing sources of marine ornamentals in your area. You have burned the bridges for useful communication between you and these LFS. You do not have the right as a customer to dictate how a business operates. The best you could do is either decide never to shop there again, or get a job there and develop a working relationship with that store. You will not agree with everything that they do, but you would understand the greater picture better from their point of view. Even better, open your own shop. You sound like you are half way there already. As a competitor you would have a great basis for changing their methods.

But be careful or someday some guy will come in and try to tell you how to run your store.

[lvpd186]

Although I agree with the idea of promoting the well-being of the animals we buy, airinhere does make some valid points. It is fairly easy to keep our tanks in pristine quality. We only deal with (usually) a single display tank, although some lucky folks are able to start several tanks . We also don't have to deal with the high turn-over that a lfs has to deal with. I would imagine that some of the problems actually start with the whole sale company and are passed on to the lfs. and yes, the argument of using a quarantine system is valid, although impractical and hard to do for some. I would imagine that places like Petco rely on the high turn-over instead of keeping their water quality at it's best. If the animals sell right away they won't die in their tanks and they will have made their profit. I know I have purchased from lfs' and had problems; one example would be a fish that I brought home, when I tested the water to see how long I should acclimate it I was surprised to find that the salinity was only at 1.013! When I have these problems I make a mental note about the store. We are lucky here that there are several lfs so I can take my business, and refer friends, to the lfs' that I trust. The ones that I don't trust don't get my business, nor my referrals.

Also being the VP of our club I would have to say that having a club banned from a store is really a sad story. Things evidently escalated to a bad conclusion. Hopefully you can work things out before it gets worse. Good luck.

[tgreene]

Ahhhh, but we've been banned on rumor, conjecture and heresay which mostly comes from the very same "aquatic specialist" that has routinely been caught lying to customers just to make a fast buck. The same guy that insisted that dead livestock simply had to be because of a member's bad water parameters, and not the stores, and also the same guy that insisted to a well versed member as to how to identify the sex of a very specific fish... The customer knew and try to explain what he was looking for, while the salesperson repeatedly "corrected" him and tried to explain his version of what's what... The employee was dead wrong.

He was also dead wrong to suggest somebody add Copper to treat a REEF TANK that got Ich from a fish he sold them... Yep, everything died -- EVERYTHING!

As I have stated over and over and over and over again, the store used to be phenominal when it was under different management and had a different "aquatic specialist". Just because the livestock may arrive in poor shape, does not mean that the water parameters should be allowed to be what they are. Good parameters will create a positive environment for the livestock, making them more resistant to the nasties. This isn't some new fangled idea, but rather the most basic and elementary concept of water purification and/or filtration standards.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if Petco were to take a positive stance on this issue, and enforce a more stringent set of standards that would benefit us all..? They would be seen in a better light, the livestock would be healthier, and we would buy more which in turn would financially reward them. While I realize that this is a concept that has been lost to many, it can and most importantly does work, but we have to keep the pressure on them to let them know that we as a unified body are serious in our efforts.

-Tim

[steve the plumb]

If you only have 2 stores its not that hard to get banned.The incident I had I didn't get banned from the store because I didn't continue the argument(discussion) I was going to tell the guy to go f himself) this was after he told me to use 5 times the recommended amount of coral dip to kill the red bugs.This was his remedy for the problem.Meanwhile his corals were dying and he is trying to tell me that they are fine.I had when an owner tries to BS me and basically blow me off.He wasn't like that when i was spending $200-$300 at a time on corals and fish.I had another LFS owner who had many fish and many tank he must have used copper in his fish tanks.He would always give me misinformation(this was 10 years ago when I didn't have a clue about SW) what upset me the most was he knew what he was doing he would always say the least and something,coral,fish would die I would come back spend more money get the wrong info.To me I spent so much money in the store.I didn't have a clue about the internet sites and I relied on his experience to help me.He did have many nice tanks but the bottom line is he was the biggest Pr*** on the face of the earth.I haven't stepped foot in his store since then and this guy gets hard to get fish and corals but just the fact that he was an a hole I won't go back.He was always friendly when it came down to you buying stuff but he would blow you off if you asked questions without spending any money.I know he is still in business and he still makes money but I can't stand the guy so I just avoid going there.I guess no store owner can take criticism but when you are trying to help a business isn't it in that stores interest to listen to what you have to say.Nothing beats free advice.Lord knows you always learn from mistakes I would think I would rather have them taught to me for free.

[Dyepes]

Any store is very much a learning experience. Are you telling me that if I wanted to go buy a 50 inch plasma tv, I should not expect the salesman to know a darned thing, and that I would be in the wrong to ask him questions so that I may know something about the product I purchase? Does this apply to tool sales and rental stores, like home depot ace?

Or when I go to the store to buy a puppy (which I would probably never do, too many in shelters) that I should not expect the specialist to teach me anything correct or helpful about puppies? No I did not miss the point.

If you are not supposed to learn anything in any stores, than your food labels would not have the nutritional or ingredient information on the package.

due to the specialized nature of ANY aquatics or animal store, the staff on hand better know damn well what they are talking about, and give the correct advice. They should very well be held liable, and probably prosecuted to some extent. this is why businesses and all corporations need significantly more regulation.

It seems the only people who ever complain about more regulation into businesses are the business owners and board members, at the expense of the far more numerous consumers.

Anyways, tgreen, don't forget that your local governing body in any state or municipality maintains a public right of way on ANY property. This is where you are legally allowed to post up (with the appropriate permits) and relay your message to the uninformed public and consumers. and seeing as what you are saying is documented FACTS, you cannot be held liable for slander or harassment, considering that is not your intent.

[airinhere]

Ya know, i have to go to work tommorow, so I wont be able to play here, but I just cant stay away from this thread.

You guys have to try taking a third person view of what you are saying. Some of the stuff you are saying sounds delusional.

And I am not trying to be a jerk or mean.

You sound like you are rationalizing a decision that was made based off of a feeling. The trouble is, the decision that was made based on a feeling has no rational justification.

the whole issue of rumors destroying relationships between customer and business is a massive example of a business situation ruined by bad feelings.

You feel slighted and they feel slighted and you start entering the situation angry and they start entering the situation angry.

Pretty soon, the only rational option left is to eliminate contact between the business and the angry customers.

We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.

Often applied to angry customers who are upsetting other customers or employees.

I also read your letters. Your complaints are not well presented nor are they very complete. I think you should have expectd to quickly become banned from the store. I would do the same thing. You kinda brought that on yourself.

And the new sump you set up....Did you ever get the macro growing in it? Why did you move the bioballs? Again, poorly executed. And that ruined your credibility in the community. Dont think the stores dont share information about customers. Whats worse, the sump setup could have worked if you hadnt disturbed the bio balls. That alone could have crashed the system.

As a neutral viewer, I would suggest taking a less vocal tone in future dealings. You are quite vocal about your frustrations about your local stores on your own forum. I think its pretty easy to see that they might resent your posts. The people running the stores have feeling too. Just because you do not like them does not make it allright to say bad things publicly about them.

I am amazed none of them have tried legal recourse against you. Califfonria is pretty Sue-Happy, and I would expect a legal battle regarding stuff like this.

And no business owner is eager for free advice. Usually it is wrong or is damaging to the existing structure of their business. If they want to expand their horizons, they go to trade shows. They almost never listen to the self proclaimed experts buying stuff at 3X markup from them. They resrve their attention for those who charge for advice or are highly regarded.

Best bet for you, steve. Go back to the shop. Buy the nice things you want. be overly polite to the shopkeeper. Be the bigger man. Dont suffer just for the sake of your pride. It is one of the seven deadly sins.

[atzak]

Now there are 1000 and 1 reasons not to live in arkansas

[tgreene]

Originally posted by airinhere
Ya I also read your letters. Your complaints are not well presented nor are they very complete. I think you should have expectd to quickly become banned from the store. I would do the same thing. You kinda brought that on yourself.

And the new sump you set up....Did you ever get the macro growing in it? Why did you move the bioballs? Again, poorly executed. And that ruined your credibility in the community. Dont think the stores dont share information about customers. Whats worse, the sump setup could have worked if you hadnt disturbed the bio balls. That alone could have crashed the system.

1) Those letters were nothing more than a followup to the test results, which described the testing procedures and gave the actual results. Both were a courtesy that was asked for by the store manager, and he received them per his request. They were not sent to corporate by either myself or any other member of our club.

2) As I posted several pages back, copious amounts of several species of macros were brought in by several members, as well as handfuls of live sand from various well established systems. Roughly 1/4 of the Bio-Balls had been removed, and the schedule was to remove another 1/4 each month until the system was fully sustainable and the Bio-balls were gone. After a week or so, the fuge was kicking *** and the previously high Ammonia levels had disappeared all together. Nitrites had come and gone, and Nitrates were beginning to appear... Last I checked, this precisely how a cycle works!


It would certainly be one thing for a customer to come in and say something to the extent of "Your store and everything about it sucks", but it's another thing when a customer discretely approachs management with a set of concerns, tests & results, and a detailed explanation of what these things mean. It's even more compelling when a 2nd set of tests is then performed in the managers office, where he can verify the testing procedures and immediate results himself, to which he made a comment in regards to there certainly being a problem.

The info on our website has only within the past week or so been made "public", as it had previously been in a restricted access forum that was only available to Premium or Lifetime members.... Kinda like the {search} function here on RC.

-Tim

[airinhere]

Well, nevermind about the note then.

Okay, I was unsure about the macro.

And yes, that is how a cycle works.

Regardless, the owner freaked and now you have some serious bridge building to restore your former credibility with them.

They percieve the situation as you gave them bad advice and made things worse.

It can easily take a year of good advice and actions to rebuild even a part of your origninal credibility.

I think what you did was more like, I think everything about your store sucks! and here I will list them all in detail. Your pH is 0.1 off. Your Phosphates are way too high, Your nitrates are high, your.................etc, etc, etc......

I would be pretty offended unless someone was really, really tactful about this. And even then, my pride would take a pretty big hit.

I also expect any shop owner has access to any local forum. They do talk to each other and they do know what is going on at the other stores.

On a side note. You have a lot of enthusiasm that is wasted on a single forum online. Is there a civic or community group you could appeal to or volunteer for that would be able to start requiring minimum standards for petstores throught the state?

Again, I dont argue the concept you point at, I caution against your current path. Try another more productive, less conflict filled path.

[hypertech]

I'm no fan of Petco, but come on.

Did you really expect them to post their water conditions on a daily basis? No one does that.

A certain level of help would probably have been appreciated. At some point, you send the activist who's demands will never be satisfied out the door.

If I owned the store, I probably would have sent you packing too. You have to temper your passion with a realistic expectations.

[thecichlidpleco]

First of all, I am sorry that they are the only place in the area. And being a club, you would rather be patrons of that store than online group buys. But, Petco is a chain store. It is not a mom and pop that gives a damn. The sole purpose of the store is to not be a speciality store and cater just to experts but, simply, the newbie. They just want to make money, no matter how smart the commercials say all their employees are. So, no they are not going to take drastic measures to find and correct the source of high nitrates, or phosphates. It sounds like all the things that have come in on your liverock or fish, are typical, and could be remedied with quarantine. Also, I work at the aquarium at a local zoo, and copper is used to treat tanks. Not display tanks with corals or inverts in them, but tanks with only fish. So, it sounds like misguided or a misunderstanding of advice. The findings that you gave to corporate are not so outlandish that they need to do anything, let alone attend your meetings.

[Me No Nemo]

Originally posted by airinhere

No LFS should ever be treated like a place of learning. It is a store. You go there to buy stuff. You go to a library or school or the internet to learn. Somehow that seperation has blurred in many peoples minds.

Sales is sales.

I totally disagree...and remember, I own a LFS. There is a certain responsibility, I agree, that the hobbyist must assume. You are right...there are all sorts of bad stuff that comes in with every coral/fish order. But, if you are selling a product, especially a living creature, you are responsible to provide the basics required to keep that creature alive.

There are many steps that can be taken by the LFS owner to insure that their livestock is healthy and their tanks are clean. For instance, in my shop all acros go through Interceptor before going up for sale...Every single one...and my entire system is treated once a month or so just as a preventive. We also have a minilab with two microscopes where we not only check numerous corals ourselves every week, but where customers can check out the corals before they buy them. My store is fairly small, but we have an excellent reputation. I keep all tangs and angels at least a week before I sell them to make sure they are eating and healthy. I use no copper in my display tanks, but instead treat all fish before they go into the tanks for parasites and run intense UV and ozone on the system as well as monthyly Prazi Pro treatments. Fish that do have problems are moved to hospital facilities.

ALL my employees are well versed in most areas of the hobby and know that, if asked a question they are not sure the answer to respond "That's not my strong point...but let me get you someone who is better schooled in that area."

Now, I"m not saying I haven't had a few problems. Several months ago I pulled every single zoa from my systems and placed them in quarantine after we found a zoa nudi on a bunch I had placed in my system. We dip every zoa first in TMPCC, and haven't had a problem before. But I kept them out of the store tanks and did fresh water dips every other day on the lot for 3 weeks until I knew they were gone. Did I lose money? A bunch...but is my reputation worth throwing away? It's all about ethics and having pride in what you do. It's also about living creatures and knowing that they will suffer without your vigilence. I have an open door policy with my customers and I hope they would come to me with problems or concerns. I can't say that the store that gave the previous responder red bugs was to blame as even with my extreme measures it only takes an egg or two to produce a problem, but if he knew he had them and did nothing to correct the situation, that would be wrong. I think that is the situation here...problematic situations not addressed.

There are several Petco's in my area and a few have healthy systems and some are just awful! I hear folks complain all the time. Do I want them driven out of business? No, but if they are going to import live animals they should make sure they are taken care of. I would approach management, and have, in several instances. Plus, I've volunteered to spend a few hours helping out if needed. If you walked into a pet store and saw a puppy lying in a filthy pen with no water, would you turn away without saying anything? All living creatures are due respect.

I will say this though: All livestock should be quarantined. I agree with the statement that there is no way any LFS, unless they have an extensive facility, can effectively quarantine every item that comes through their doors. It's a great practice to get into if you want a guarantee that you won't have problems. But, that doesn't take the responsibility away from the LFS owner to do the best they can to maintain healthy tanks.

[jerryz]

So just to clarify. Under the guise of your club. A competitor to two LFS's went into their establishments and demanded that they change their business practices because they weren't how he (the competitor) would do it. Then when these businesses do what any self respecting business should do and you not only lose out on your strong arm tactics but it costs you personally and your club because you used them as shill in this you don't take it like a man but come running to a public forum to cry about how unjust it is that you got your behind kicked. If you would like a point by point rebuttal of your actual letters I will be more than happy to provide you one but I actually suspect thatr you know the lay of the land already. So instead I've chosen instead to just tell you how childish you've behaved.

Now if you truly believe they are offering an inferior product take your LLC and go make money but offering a superior product and stop crying about how badly they roughed you up

[airinhere]

MeNo, if you ever want to open a store here in Sacramento, I would love you forever.

I wish most LFS were run like you are describing. The reality is that many owners do not have near the expertise you sound like you have.
They arent bad people for this, just not great reefkeepers. I would always choose a LFS that has skilled employees over another with bad conditions.

I think you are very fortunate to have a large reefkeeping community to draw from for your employees. This makes a big difference in the quality of help you end up with.
Sacramento (where I live) is very similar. Many very good stores. I consider myself lucky to live where I do and do not believe this is the case everywhere.

Even so, I still think somewhere, people got the idea that a LFS should provide all the required learning in a series of short visits to make a customer into a skilled reefkeeper.
Its hard to get a group of experienced reefers to agree on anything about husbandry. Even the basics like temperature or lighting gets debates started. This is an advanced hobby and is easily one of the most complex things I deal with on a regular basis.

A good store should be able to give adequate advice about anything in their store. If a customer understands what is said to them can be another topic entirely. It is not the stores responsibility to make value calls for customers. How do I know if a $100 skimmer or $600 skimmer is what a customer would call expensive? Do I recommend only $600 skimmers and freak out all my customers? Am I a bad employee because I recommend a coralife SS instead of a Deltec? Where do you draw the line?

I think the line should not even exist. The customer should be responsible for any educating. LFS are places to 'talk shop'. I just dont think its fair for everyone to expect to get a free education at the LFS expense.

[Me No Nemo]

I agree, research is the best tool a hobbyist has, but still, there is a responsibility, and I'm talking about the animals, that store owners need to take seriously.

I guess I'm just reading this thread differently. I don't see that the original poster did anything wrong...but I do agree that getting into the manager's face anymore just isn't going to do much good. More can be done from different perspectives, but I would follow through with other tactics if you feel that strongly about the issues involved.

[sfilingeri]

My aquarium at home is horrific also, water quality is sub-par by anybody's standard, And I dont test water parimeters because I shudder to think what I will see !! And damn if I can keep anything alive except bacteria and parasites.....

Are you and your club going to demand how I should "clean up" my act also? You going to boycott me also? Will you be stopping by to lecture me ?? or am I going to have to BAN you also??

[yellowwatchmen]

Originally posted by sfilingeri
My aquarium at home is horrific also, water quality is sub-par by anybody's standard, And I dont test water parimeters because I shudder to think what I will see !! And damn if I can keep anything alive except bacteria and parasites.....

Are you and your club going to demand how I should "clean up" my act also? You going to boycott me also? Will you be stopping by to lecture me ?? or am I going to have to BAN you also??

Big difference. They do not buy fish from you. And just because every thing looks healthy doesn't meen it is. I think that is very stupid not to test your water because you dont want to see the results if they are bad. All your seeing is what your doing wrong so you can fix it. Your livestock may look heathy but they could be dieing very slowly.

They are trying to help there lfs so they can have healthy live stock. They are also trying to inform them so that they can inform other people with good information. And what else can they do from what I read there only other option is to buy livestock offline. As they previously stated the only other fish store is 100 miles away.

[jimmyj7090]

Gee, the tone here is getting a little tense. Then again I guess that might be a bit of a analagous of the situation being talked about?

As I posted earlier, I comend the intent here.

That said, I've got to say, these guys do have some good points.

I'd just suggest really thinking twice about trying to reform any petco. By my best estimation, the advanced reefkeeping community is not mentioned in their buisness plan.

It's like your working to help the local K-mart realize that they should start selling Ferraris even though they don't currently sell cars or quality goods in any form. You'd be right, Ferraris are great. But they don't care and they wouldn't likely see a big Profit gain by trying, more likely a loss.

In the end you can only be so assertive before you get shut down because of inadvertantly insulting someone or otherwise putting them off. Who wants to be told they are clueless about their job by someone off the street (personal ego usually loses complicated facts pretty easily)?


My suggestions,
-Use your club to spread info and education without picking fights
-let the $ spent do the talking

Where I live there are many petcos but most don't sell SW, fewer sell any sort of inverts, and they have been closing down SW sections not starting new ones. IMO this is because people are learning not to bother. It's buisnes darwinsim, The educated SW customer is becoming more common, and the helpless newbie less common.

Where there are reefers, there will be real reef shops sooner or later.

Bla bla bla, just don't get yourself or your club sued

BTW, if anyone makes that T shirt, I will buy it!

[DaveMorris]

Reading through this thread has been very interesting. Here in San Diego we have three Marine clubs and all three of the clubs have several of us that talk about the bad quality of Petco tanks. I feel that Petco has a responsibility to maintain a safe environment for the livestock that they sell. I am going to go into a couple of them and test the water myself. If I find the same results, I will be knocking on their front door and try to get a real response to the concerns expressed here. I have heard the CEO of Petco speak and he stated that before they decided to sell fish, they considered the special needs that it would take for them to maintain them in the stores.

You may or may not know that Petco is based in San Diego. They even purchased the naming rights to the field in which my beloved Padres play. I will let you know what I can find out from the corporate office in person.

[Stoner Tang]

Jeez, I read this entire thread, plus the threads relating to this issue on the reef club's website and I think the matter became more or less personal for this gentleman. Perhaps more could've been achieved in a constructive manner had the reef club been a bit more diplomatic in their approach. It is sad to see an organization such as this be banned from an LFS.

This thread, I believe, for all intent and purposes, will serve only to inflame the hostilities even further. In my humble opinion, your club should perhaps choose a personality from amongst themselves with good negotiating skills as a delegate to meet with the management of said fish stores to try and put an end to this drama and perhaps come to some kind of an agreement of reconciliation upon which both sides can agree without the feeling of losing face.

Goodluck.

[joeycadre]

the actual problem is petco not spending the money to hire people who give a crap. it's a low paying job and the people who work it could care less. for 6 or 7 bucks an hour you are not going to get people who will test the water, clean the tanks, feed properly, etc...

i worked at a petcare (before the co) and i busted my butt for about 3 months trying to shape up the fish dept. but after seeing that maybe one other employee even cared i gave up. it's not the workers' fault. it's the management and the execs. they want your money. they can afford to lose livestock because of the volume they buy.

it's capitalism that is the enemy here.
plain and simple.