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#851
05/26/2006, 04:50 PM
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He wants to put the bucket below the level of his tall sump-- seal the bucket (lid) so the water pumped to it comes back to the sump.... if it wasn't sealed the water would flow out of the top of the bucket rather then return to the sump...
Someone about 20-30 pages back used a container with a screw on lid (smaller lid) to accomplish this below his tank-- my above post was to caution others on trying this with a standard bucket.... I work on hydraulic systems and am quite knowledgeable about pressure/area/force issues... In addition, I would think twice about using uniseals on such a set up and use bulkheads instead... //edit// Here is the post with the sealed container below the tank... has a pic and everything... page 17 of this thread if you display 20 posts per page... (on my setup this is page 43)... http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...25#post6394225
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Bill "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work, I want to achieve immortality by not dying"-- Woody Allen |
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#852
05/28/2006, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
 Ok, so I'm thinking that when I setup my new system I'll plumb the output of my skimmer to the bucket and then have the bucket return to the sump. I will be using an IO bucket that my salt came in and planned to cover it with the lid to keep light out. Is this not good since the return will more than likely be submerged so that I don't get splash noise? |
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#853
05/28/2006, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
I see two likely issues with using your skimmer to feed your DSB. First, sending skimmed water to the DSB bucket would be somewhat counter productive. If your skimmer is doing it's thing, there will be very little for the DSB to remove compared to "dirty" water pre skimmer. Second, I know that I would have all sorts of problems dialing in my Lifereef skimmer if I was creating any backpressure on the output. I think you would be far better off finding another source to feed your bucket.
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LARRY "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." Albert Einstein I'm pretty sure it's Mike's fault..... |
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#854
05/28/2006, 11:34 AM
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Actually, while it may not be a good idea to plumb your RDSB directly from the skimmer, the clean, 'skimmed' water is exactly what you want. It's the nitrates you're after, not any organics. The idea is to have a clean, fast moving flow of water so you don't have to worry about organics accumulating in your rdsb.
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#855
05/28/2006, 11:40 AM
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Makes sense. I was thinking along the lines of a DSB in your tank, where sources of nourishment other than nitrates are necessary to feed critters that stir the bed.
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LARRY "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." Albert Einstein I'm pretty sure it's Mike's fault..... |
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#856
05/28/2006, 12:13 PM
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and depending on how you plumb it, there won't be any back pressure. if your skimmer is one that has a riser tube to set the water level and you can put your skimmer right next to your bucket, just dump the water from the skimmer out to the bucket via gravity. no extra back pressure, no extra pump.
then the bucket can overflow into the sump either via bulkhead or just over the rim if the bucket is in the sump. |
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#857
05/28/2006, 12:44 PM
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both very good points IMO from Larry and vikubz
if the plumbing of the skimmer to this/such RDSB (or any feature) puts back pressure on the already typically sensitve range of skimmers we all use... then its not worth it at all. Don't mess with the skimmer :P They are one of the single best ways to export nutrients... exploit it optimally. And while the RDSB may help you with NNR well, there are enough other ways to reduce nitrates. If you cannot plumb the skimmer without handicapping it... don't use it at all here. that said... however you choose to feed your RDSB, getting particle free/scrubbed water is better than not, by far in the sense that the RDSB is not the optimal place in your system for handling particulates. Instead, we are gunning for the dissolved organics and reducing nitrates largely here. For managing solid waste... we have skimmers, mechanical filters, and best of all: our corals in other filter-feeding invertebrates! (the best place to be banking solid matter... in invertebrate growth  ). So yes, IMO please do tend to feed your RDSB with particulate-reduced water and you will have less/little maintenance issues with your RDSB.
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"If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day... but if you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime." |
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#858
05/28/2006, 12:48 PM
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Yes, that is what I have done with my sump. The refugium section has a 6 to 7 inch dsb with a few pieces of LR on top. There's about 3 inches of water flowing over it. It has about 5 gallons of sand by volume. |
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#859
05/28/2006, 03:44 PM
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I have followed this thread from the beginning, but I haven't setup my RDSB yet because I was waiting on the results of the people who had used it! With that said I have seen there has been significant result and I now wish to set mine up!
It seems everyone has used some different method as far as the way it is plumbed. Some used a 90 deg on the output, some just straight bulkhead. Could we get a simplified breakdown from start to finish (construction & plumbing) of the best method everyone has seen to work the best? Just thought we could clear up a little of the confusion on what parts work and which ones don't! thanx, Jay
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Jay |
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#860
05/28/2006, 09:18 PM
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Actually, that's one of the points I forgot to make in that I planned on making a 2-port pressurized system on the second generation RDSB I plan to build.
The water flowing in will be fed from the second (kinda sorta refugium) portion of the sump and returned to the same chamber - this is after the skimmer has had its time with the water, and after the water has gone through a weekly changed chunk of filter floss. Therefore, there should be next to no gravity feeding in this pressurized system and even better, very little particulate matter going into the RDSB system. |
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#861
05/28/2006, 09:21 PM
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again, you are over analyzing this. bucket, sand, particle free water flowing over
doesn't matter if there is an elbow, a bulkhead, just a feed pipe and overflow the rim, around your elbow, through your legs, over the river and through the woods and into the bucket.... just bucket, sand, waterflow and you're done. you can figure out the plumbing that works best based on your system. it's not going to affect how the rdsb operates. |
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#862
05/28/2006, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
 Well said... I agree-- nothing too elaborate needs to be used-- whatever you have available to plumb it--- no set up is better then any other-- just try to minimize detritus buildup using cleaner water (skimmer effluent) and/or fast moving water so it doesn't have time to settle in the sand bed... its relatively idiot proof (unless they come out with a better brand of idiot)  +++++++ Welcome back Anthony..... 
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Bill "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work, I want to achieve immortality by not dying"-- Woody Allen |
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#865
05/30/2006, 05:33 PM
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Another question - are there any signs to spot if there are particles settling on the sand bed once it is running?
I've been running for about a week now and the top of the sand is still white so I think it's fine - but I wanted to know if there's any obvious signs that I need to increase turbulence inside the bucket (and yet still keep the bed from being disturbed. |
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#867
05/31/2006, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
There were also a bunch of filter feeders attached to the side of the bucket-- I don't consider these indicative of a problem as they would be pulling out stuff suspended in the water-- evidenlty they like the high flow.... ~300 GPH.. Mine has been installed almost 5 months..
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Bill "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work, I want to achieve immortality by not dying"-- Woody Allen |
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#868
06/01/2006, 02:32 AM
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soo... i have a 100 gal fish-only with a 29 gal sump, G3 skimmer, filter sock, refugium 24 hrs w/ miracle mud...could i achieve a DSB bucket system by putting a small bucket after the prefilter, filled with sand, with a couple inches of water above the top? there is very fast movement. does the grain size of the aragonite matter, or would something besides aragonite be better?
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too close for missiles; im switching to guns |
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#871
06/01/2006, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
although if you want to get technical...less surface area means less bacteria means oxygen lasts longer, so in theory the oxygen could penetrate deeper before it is used up. Quote:
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#872
06/01/2006, 08:24 AM
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Hi!
This is one awsome thread! Really sounds so easy and cheap and probably is. To help everyone out, I have created a thread where you can go and post your RDSB details so they are all together and easy to get to. I thought this may help with some of the same repeated question in this thread as well as having a easy to find thread with everyones differing RDSB setups and what seems to work and how long it took to begin working etc. Perhaps we could unearth a patten that would help grow this fantastic idea! Thread is here: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=856761 Thanks to Anthony and everyone else who have put time and effort into this great idea, it's really interesting, and I bet that just about everyone who has read this, will be wanting set one up asap! Brett |
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#873
06/02/2006, 03:27 AM
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I'm sorry if someone has asked this question already but this thread is so long. What do people say is the minimum depth that the rdsb should have? I currently have a 30g hex refugium for my 25g display and the sand bed is 6-7 inches deep. Does this count as a rdsb? Should I add more sand? My nitrate level is about 12ppm. Heavy bioload though. Thanks.
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#875
06/02/2006, 08:48 AM
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There is no minimum depth for it, deep as you can get in your container...
The idea with an RDSB is to minimize the life and detritus in it so you can avoid the problems commonly associated with DSBs (mainly from detritus buildup)-- done by feeding water to it via high flow (no time to settle out) and/or filtered/skimmed if possible.... maintain the bucket/container dark to prevent algae growth-- where there is algae growth you will get life.. in theory, the only live things you want in your sand are bacteria (although you will probably find it impossible to keep all life out of it).
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Bill "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work, I want to achieve immortality by not dying"-- Woody Allen |
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