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#52
12/15/2006, 02:52 PM
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Manhattanreefs.com does group buys almost on a weekly basis, and they have frag swaps to save money on corals/fish. We all live in NYC so it works very easily, usually retailer offers group discount or at least one shipping cost. (actually I've never gone to one) I don't know how this could work at RC because almost all of the continents are represented here! But maybe if everyone ordered salt (for example) at the same time from the same supplier they might offer discounts.
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#54
12/15/2006, 03:39 PM
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FWIW you guys are losing me here. I completely understand your interest in an "exchage" site were hobbyists could access fish & supplies, but ( not to be arrogant here) some of us are a little past that. Edgar, Kathy, myself and others are primarily concerned about selling fish and I don't mean 2 at a time to hobbyists. What we would be looking for is exposure to retailers, not hobbyists. We have our wholesale supply accounts set up and are not really concerned about that part of it. Speaking for myself I am interested in selling directly to retailers in lots of 25-50 fish at a pop.
I do understand your priorities and hope that a compromise can be reached that benefits all breeders at every level. The truth is that online vendor pricing is pretty competetive with wholesale, sometimes less. Has to do with volume, often a vendor like Marine Depot can blow the shorts off the wholesalers on drygoods. I have shipped out many animals and items all over the country but in the end there is no real savings, I don't get the price breaks and shipping discounts those big guys get. The only real difference is I hand pick the livestock and people are happy about that part of it. Cost is about the same in the end. For example you can buy Chemi-Pure and Poly-Filters for way less online that you'd pay at at a wholesaler. As for pooling orders on salt and the like I'd think the shipping/ distribution would cost far more than any savings found by buying in bulk. A $36 case of salt at the lfs is $28 at the wholesaler, can you ship it for $8??And of course it will take someones time and effort to do it. Well just my thoughts, lets try to unite rather than fragment breeders at all levels if possible. 
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These are my rotifers. Without my rotifers I am nothing. Without me my rotifers are nothing. |
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#55
12/15/2006, 03:58 PM
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David, I think the way to bring retailers / lfs's to the table is by getting the online listing service going, and then advertising that service to retailers through trade mags etc. I suspect there are many more marine breeders out there that might only have a handful of fish to sell at a time, like myself.
Anyway, trade mag advertising (or advertising of the site in general) can be paid through sponsorships, membership fees, listing fees or whatever. Of course, there is also ONLINE marketing to consider, but the main way to get to the LFS's other than cold calling is through trade rags. Having one certalized site for LFS's to go to and look through makes sense, and the more breeders you can get on there at all levels, the greater variety and availability of fish the site has as a whole. FWIW, Matt |
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#57
12/15/2006, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
You, Matt, Kathy, and Ed, represent 4 completely different markets. Each of you has connections into your local market, and perhaps have already saturated it with the fish that you breed. You could work together to gain access to each others markets without stepping on each others toes. If organised properly, you could in theory expand each other's markets, because you could each focus on a few specific breeds, and then agree to take a share of the profits for acting as a sales rep for each other. Matt doesn't have room to breed Oscellaris, instead he is focusing on the Black Onyx and GBB. As you have said, it's hard to get the LFS to even look at you if you don't have Nemo. What if you supplied the Nemo's for his market, and he supplied the GBB's and Black Onyx for your market? All of a sudden both of your markets have expanded. A website that acts as a directory would be nice, and it could act as a conduit for establishing new markets and relationships for breeders. It could also act as a way for retailers to force breeders to bid against each other, and could actually end up wiping the small guys out completely. It may end up being a double edged sword. Just something to consider. **Edit** In addition to this.. wholesale price is based on volume. I guarantee PetCo's wholesale price on salt is less than any LFS's wholesale price. If at the same time, the four of you combined your orders you might be able to get a better discount that might make it worth shipping. That's the kind of thing I was talking about earlier when I mentioned Co-op. 
Last edited by Cuervo; 12/15/2006 at 04:48 PM. |
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#58
12/15/2006, 05:12 PM
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Cuervo, the idea of a Co-op is just more organized...if I REALLY wanted Ocellaris to help get my foot in the door of some shops, I'd try to contact other folks like Kathy and purchase some from her to resell or maybe make a trade between the two of us. That's more or less how it's done in the FW side of the rarer stuff....either that or you're striking out on your own. The truth here in Chicago is that I have PLENTY of INTEREST from the LFS's...the problem I have is that I don't want to an entire batch of 20 GBG's to one LFS at $10 a shot...it takes too much out of my own pocket. It may be a different story when I have boatloads of Onyx Percula, and I know I have the shops willing to pay a fair price for them, but when I have batches of 3 or 6 make it, the only way to justify all the effort in rearing them is to sell at a retail level to other hobbysits (ala frags.org).
Co-Op just sounds too much like someone managing a bunch of smaller breeders, which is fine I guess, except that I don't want ot be told what I can and cannot do with the fish I raise Matt |
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#59
12/15/2006, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
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Gresham _______________________________ Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time |
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#60
12/16/2006, 01:21 PM
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If you guys can get this off the ground, I'd be willing to stuff flyers into all my LFS shipments
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Gresham _______________________________ Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time |
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#61
12/17/2006, 07:01 AM
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I know i dont have any fish to offer right now but count me in for anything needed
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{ Something witty and entertaining } |
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#62
12/17/2006, 04:48 PM
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Folks,
Firstly compliments of the season to you all. Secondly, www.marinebreeder.com. This is the url that we need to use. I also have www.marinebreeder.info also parked to the same server. Thirdly, some time ago, several weeks or so, I asked a similar question to this one and got very little response. Perhaps I should have posted on the rareclowns forum. However the good news is that there seems to be some interest. I have a blank forum to play with too: http://marinebreeder.com/yabb/ feel free to register. Can also supply email addresses too. Thanks Steve |
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#64
12/18/2006, 12:40 PM
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Matt, et al,
Sorry was working on this last night and broke all my links. if you go to www.marinebreeder.com there are a number of links off of that and these will grow. I have just changed the board that i was using. A link to the Forums is www.marinebreeder.com/forum . Thanks Steve PS: Still early days so let me know what you all need. |
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#71
01/26/2007, 12:44 PM
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David, Um, yeah, I'm on "probation", fine, I'll say why.
I listed my Batch VIII in the tank raised livestock selling forum. You all know I have but 2 larval rearing tanks. You all know I needed one of them to Quarantine my fish. I was in a jam, the babies needed a new home ASAP. The post was yanked (I placed it in the CMAS forum as well, as I wasn't willing to ship 17 day old clownfish so I needed to find someone local), and I was admonished for being a commercial seller. I was already admonished by a few bad apples in the CMAS forum for asking $75 for an 8 stalk colony of Red Sea Xenia...apparently Xenia should be given away for free, and my asking price made me "commercial" or something. WHATEVER. IT's my freakin' rock of Xenia and I wanted $75 for it, take it or leave it. There's Xenia in the selling forums right now for over $100 for a small frag (different, rarer type, but you get my point). I have not doubt someone from that Xenia argument brought my clownfish post to a mod's attention and asked that I be scolded. All fish breeders whether businesses or a guy with 2 tanks are apparently considered "commercial sellers". That's an "unspoken, unwritten rule". I didn't buy that argument for 1 second and argued back. That earned me probation. Hence I may be leaving and taking all my posts and pics with me unless I get some restitution. I pay to host all my own pictures...RC is getting to display my content that I pay for them to display. According to the user agreement, MY posts are MY property, they display them with my "approval" basically. Which means, if things don't get sorted out for all us fish breeders, I'm going to ask that all my posts be removed as I will be recinding my permission for Reef Central to display my writings. I really hope that the folks that own and run RC will reconsider their position. This IS the best resource for marine breeders, but it's very clear to me that WE are the ones who've made it that way. We deserve equal and fair treatment. We're not getting it. I've simply asked that they either explicity disallow the posting of ANY captive bred fish in the selling forum (that's a 1 minute sticky post to make) OR they reconsider their stance and make some changes. I've also asked that I receive an apology from the mod in question and that my full access be restored. I've heard NOTHING back since last night, but I realize folks do have other obligations than to deal with a raving lunatic like myself. Hence we need to get this going or I'm gonna have to set up my own Matt |
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#72
01/26/2007, 01:06 PM
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I really don't understand the distinction between a guy with a fry grow-out tank and a guy with a frag rack. Even if I did understand that, you can't expect people to follow rules that aren't written.
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Asking dumb questions since '06! Or, a dumby asking questions since '06! |
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#74
01/26/2007, 01:12 PM
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Oh, the one other difference between someone selling 40 different frags vs. the private marine fish breeder. On the ODD chance that we're actually SUCCESSFUL in our progation efforts (which by all accounts is a FAR MORE DIFFICULT acheivement, but equaly important for the future of our hobby), the private fish breeder will assuredly find themselves OVERRUN with fish that have to go somewhere. It's not like I can put my juvie clowns back into the tank with their parents.
If I was "commercial", I wouldn't be letting batch after batch of Onyx Perculas (with their retail value of $70 a shot) go unraised. And I would have had the common sense to abide by the official rules and NOT POST the post I posted... Additional Edit - one more "if I was commercial" - well, if I was commercial I wouldn't be selling off 80 fn F1 onyx percs at $2.50 per fish, at ANY age. Matt Last edited by mwp; 01/26/2007 at 01:29 PM. |
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#75
01/26/2007, 01:35 PM
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Has anyone seen Matt's "commercial" set up? That's funny!!! The only Commercial fish breeder in the country with three tanks in a condo..
.Sorry to hear of your trouble Matt. I hope you can get the issues resolve because I really appreciate your input to this "HOBBY".
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Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground. |
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