Closed Loop vs. Vortech Propeller Pumps - Page 3

Albright · #51 06/06/2007, 10:45 PM

You guys are passionate

I have a feeling I may wind up with the closed loop as I will not have access to the back side of the aquarium. This would leave only the sides (which may wind up with the overflows) for the placement of the pumps and I worry about not being able to aim them properly and having very little control over where the flow is directed.

Albright · #52 06/07/2007, 04:57 PM

I picked up a Vortech pump to play with in my 40g figuring I can always transition it to the larger tank with or without the CL. I am really liking how it works. Very simple to setup. Great random looking flow turned all the way down (500gph) although in a small tank. Turned up it gets to be very hectic in there.

I know they are going to be releasing a "wavemaker" type device soon for these. If the wavemaker adjusts the flow rate rather than just alternating on/off I think it will push me to the Vortechs as opposed to the CL. I feel the random up and down of intensity will create a more natural random motion within the tank than the CL at a steady rate pointed in the same direction constantly will make.

Benny Z · #53 06/12/2007, 02:25 PM

i currently have 2 penductors driven by a pcx-55 return pump and also a dart closed-loop.

that's 170w + 160w = 330w (and a lot of heat)

i'm ditching both in favor of a mag7 return pump, 2 vortechs, and a wavebox.

that's 70 + 35 + 35 + 45 (actually, only 1/2 that due to the on/off cycles, but i'll give you that) = 185w (and a lot less heat)

...and more/better flow, to boot. ...and battery backup as an option.

Bax · #54 06/12/2007, 03:15 PM

Wow, talk about a subject that draws an opinion out folks ... yikes!

Any way FWIW, I have used CLs, on my last 75 g I had two CLs, then I got a VorTech lost one CL and then a Tunze. I did this as Albright did, just to play with flow.

Electrical consumption and heat transfer aside, I like the synergy you can get from utilizing different systems.

In my current 120, I don't use a CL because of a variety of issues, I do use a VorTech and a pair of Tunze 6100s .... love this flow for this tank. I am up to about 65 x turnover and I don't think anything is cranked all the way except one Tunze on one pulse setting.

FWIW, when I do finally set up my 260ish tank, I'll be running a CL on a Dart, at least one maybe two VorTechs and 3 to 4 Tunzes. I think the VorTech's have a broader flow by far than the Tunzes, but they play well together, and there is always that one spot that will benefit from a good blast of old fashioned laminar flow from a CL.

In short, IMO, the bigger the tank, the more, and more flexible sources of flow, the better.

Good luck with your project Albright

Albright · #55 06/12/2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bax
Wow, talk about a subject that draws an opinion out folks ... yikes!

Any way FWIW, I have used CLs, on my last 75 g I had two CLs, then I got a VorTech lost one CL and then a Tunze. I did this as Albright did, just to play with flow.

Electrical consumption and heat transfer aside, I like the synergy you can get from utilizing different systems.

In my current 120, I don't use a CL because of a variety of issues, I do use a VorTech and a pair of Tunze 6100s .... love this flow for this tank. I am up to about 65 x turnover and I don't think anything is cranked all the way except one Tunze on one pulse setting.

FWIW, when I do finally set up my 260ish tank, I'll be running a CL on a Dart, at least one maybe two VorTechs and 3 to 4 Tunzes. I think the VorTech's have a broader flow by far than the Tunzes, but they play well together, and there is always that one spot that will benefit from a good blast of old fashioned laminar flow from a CL.

In short, IMO, the bigger the tank, the more, and more flexible sources of flow, the better.

Good luck with your project Albright

Thanks for the feedback. In the end I will probably wind up with a combination as you mentioned.

Where in NJ are you?

rbursek · #56 06/12/2007, 04:58 PM

WOW, what a topic!!!!! Don G great point at the end, if there is an end to this one. All engineers!!!!!!!!! My observation on this one is who cares, we will not need heaters after this one. You take any centrifugal pump, close of the water supply/discharge, and you are going to get steam in that pump cavity in about 10 minutes. Friction is friction, but it cuts down on heater usage!!!!! LOL.
Bob

rbursek · #57 06/12/2007, 05:08 PM

Forgot to say, never did a CL, but run Hydor, love them and for giggles I can change the angle on them,to just change things up for the tank, run them on a wave maker. My "friend" who got me into this money eating hobby, runs 2 Vortechs, great flow but since they are not adjustable in there direction, just volume. And yes there are supposed to come out with a Wave maker machine. I can buy 8 Hydor for 1 Vortech!!!! I do agree in a large system, it would be best to have multiple systems, nothing is perfect, except in the ocean before oil spills.Bob

sabbath · #58 06/12/2007, 05:19 PM

Thanks for the reply Bob. Good points. I think that this has been a very informative debate on different types of flow systems.

woz9683 · #59 06/12/2007, 05:22 PM

I'd plan on a combination too Albright. Like many have said closed loops are great because you get a lot of raw water movement with almost no space taken up in the tank. They're also fairly flexible as long as you have some loc-line in the tank. But they can be limiting also because you generally drill the outlets into the bottom or back of your tank (and you don't want loc-line snaking around the inside of your tank).

Vortech / Tunze are great because of the low wattage, dispersed flow, and ability to move them greater distances to get to parts of the tank that are difficult to reach with closed loop outlets.

One thing that can make a closed loop more flexible is if you have an in-wall system you can put outlets on the sides of the tank as well as the back and bottom.

And a final note from me. The leaking problem with a closed loop is 99.9% human error. If you install good bulkheads correctly and use all the plumbing you're supposed to (true union ball valves, etc.) and know how to use pvc cement then the chances of having a leak you can't fix are so minute it's not even worth worrying about.

rbursek · #60 06/12/2007, 05:33 PM

Don.
thanks again for the IeSpell hook up. More need to know about it.
Even tho Ispell and Spell check have made me worse, lazy.
Bob

jacmyoung · #61 06/12/2007, 05:44 PM

I just want to inject my perspective on this issue.

It is easier to just slap a 500W pump on your CL system and it will guarantee that you will get flow in every corner of the tank, but this hobby is also about skill, precision and balance, in addition to viewing pleasure.

To me that means a sense of pride when you can achieve the same results with the least amount of energy used, because energy efficiency is not just about cost saving (in fact more efficient products tend to cost more to buy), but about advance in technology, research and implementation, not only at the manufacture level but at the hobbyist level.

I know your pretty much bored to death by now so thank you for listening

lukinrats · #62 06/12/2007, 06:12 PM

would a closed loop with a single pump, use less/same energy, and create less/same heat than 2 - 3 vortechs/tunze

Dont know, but I would have to wonder about it... I plan on putting a closed loop for the following reasons

#1-- vortech costs $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$4
#2-- I would need 2 or more of them to create random flow
** I know a single vortech can put out a lot of flow, but in
one direction... Right?**
#3-- Save space, and make things look better

These are all good enough reasons for me... I cannot justify buying 2-3 vortechs @ $400 a pop

Later,