My own AEFW (Acro Eating Flatworms) images

[Stoney Mahony]

Yeah, I just searched rc and all I could find was one guy who tried it on his qt but all his stuff died anyways so he didn't know if it worked or not. I can't stress enough how important it is to try things for yourself sometimes. When I read through some of these old posts, it makes me sick to see some people let there ego's get in the way when others suggest new treatments. New treatments are answered with"thats been done and doesnt work" and then you never hear about them again. It's really sad, I was told the same about fluke tabs even though I had pics,results and all. Just put your hater blockers on

[john f]

Again the problem with using Praziquantel in a reef tank is it will most likely kill the entire worm population in the sandbed.
Maybe in a BB tank it would cause little harm I don't know, but in a DSB it would be very upsetting to the biological balance.
I use it from time to time in my fish QT to de-worm certain high risk fish (parrotfish)


John

[dolt]

two things - one is what john f said about collateral damage to other worms in the tank is a concern in an established reef and the second is that I have tried praziqantel in bowls on my AEFW at varrying concentrations and it did not work for me - it might work on other flatworms but the ones I have - it did not kill or even really seem to bother them

[Dudester]

Not to intentionally contradict what others have said, but I have treated my small reef in the past with praziquantel (Prazi-Pro) to help rid my tank of the (previously) more common and less virulent flatworms, and I did not notice a detrimental effect to the tank whatsoever. I'll also admit that it wasn't all that effective in killing the flatworms, either. I wasn't flatworm-free until my sixline wrasse got to them. I sure wish sixlines would eat AEFW!!

[zapata41]

ok well it's done.
Now time for the write up on the treatment.

i took pics as i went to help show how everything did.

Overview:

Tank is approx 250g total volume.

treatment was 103 flue tabs, disolved in hot water, added directly to sump.

Treatment time, tank soaked for 20 min. before removal efforts were started.

Removal methods, 100g water change, approx 3/4 gallon of activated carbon in sump, heavy wet simming.

Losses, one blood shrimp, all snails, prolly any other crabs i had also. So treatment is kinda like interceptor on those guys. Shrimp was taken out after 20min once noticed his twitching, now resides in seahorse tank, partial paralysis, might pull out of it.

Observations:
Corals that were infected the heaviest with AEFW slimmed the most during the soak, millis, tri color, efflos, etc.

Polyp extension was about 75% of normal thoughout entire process .
Fish activities were about that same as they would be if a stranger was standing infront of the tank, the usual hiding of fish with the occasional open water swimming.

No signs of AEFW on undersides of corals. Still a little too cloudy to see eggs that were on the base of one milli.

Skimmer is going nuts and having a field day.

OK, now for the pics

[zapata41]

ok so here's how i started

dilute all 103 tabs


now a few pics of what it was, just incase i loose it all, atleast the pg&e bill will be cheaper

full tank
the prop tank

heavily infected acro


meds going in the sump


clouding up the display with fluke

[zapata41]

ten minutes into the soak. infected coral sliming away


and after the 100g water change, still cloudy


ok well thats all. looks like the astrea snails survived nicely. the two shrimps are gonners though, well the blood is still "alive" in the seahorse tank, but the coral banded is 100% dead.

well as of current i have no regrets about the soak. Hopefully this will say that there is a away to do display tank treatments like interceptor for AEFW.

ok well will give updates as they come . hopefully tomorrow will be nice and clear sailing.

Tim

[tfp]

tim, you've got some pretty nice sized colonies in there. hope everything pulls thru for you.

tfp

[zapata41]

yeah me too, bout a 100 diff. sps on the line here, anda prop tank full of tyree and LE stuff.

Tim

[Stoney Mahony]

Looks good I am sure the next few days will be a good indication of what this stuff does in-tank. It's great that it didnt hurt any fish, I think I could deal w/ a few shrimp losses. Good luck, and keep us posted!

[wentreefgirl]

Where did you get that many fluke tabls all at once? Just tagging along.

[Stoney Mahony]

Originally posted by wentreefgirl
Where did you get that many fluke tabls all at once? Just tagging along.

You can buy them by the 1000 from many of the online stores

[zapata41]

i picked them up from custom aquatics.

ok well now that the nightmares are over, i can awake and see how the tank really looks, thankfully it was better than that of my dreams.

So all limpets in the tank are toast, finally got those little buggers off the bottoms of my acros.

two colonies look to be having some trouble, but, note, they were stn'ing before the treatment.

In the prop tank, there are no signs of my two chromis' and the flasher wrasse loks stressed and breathing heavily. the tang looks fine though. mind you that all the water siphoning was from the display so the prop tank prolly had the meds in a little longer and is having them removed a little slower since the flow through that tank is as great as it is for the display.

the zoas and clove polpys loks stressed, prolly because they were like catchers' mits for some of the meds that were 1000% disolved.

signs of life in the diplay look pretty normal for a early morning, hopefully there are no deaths when i come home.

I will be bringing home about 5g worth of carbon to place in the sump. I dont think the carbon that i have is taking it out fast enough, or is full of meds and cant take anymore out.

I also think that i went way over 4x dosage since i went off theoretical tank volume, not subtracting for rocks and such.

The clam is still alive too.

so only thing i am concerned about is the following treatment in two weeks, since that is how long you are supposed to wait for the eggs to hatch , right?

Ok well that's all for now

Tim

[Neptune777]

Good luck zapata41!! Sounds like things are progressing nicely........ I am sure you will keep us up to date on the progress..

[melev]

Originally posted by zapata41
ok well now that the nightmares are over, i can awake and see how the tank really looks, thankfully it was better than that of my dreams.

So all limpets in the tank are toast, finally got those little buggers off the bottoms of my acros.

two colonies look to be having some trouble, but, note, they were stn'ing before the treatment.

In the prop tank, there are no signs of my two chromis' and the flasher wrasse loks stressed and breathing heavily. the tang looks fine though. mind you that all the water siphoning was from the display so the prop tank prolly had the meds in a little longer and is having them removed a little slower since the flow through that tank is as great as it is for the display.

the zoas and clove polpys loks stressed, prolly because they were like catchers' mits for some of the meds that were 1000% disolved.

signs of life in the diplay look pretty normal for a early morning, hopefully there are no deaths when i come home.

I will be bringing home about 5g worth of carbon to place in the sump. I dont think the carbon that i have is taking it out fast enough, or is full of meds and cant take anymore out.

I also think that i went way over 4x dosage since i went off theoretical tank volume, not subtracting for rocks and such.

The clam is still alive too.

so only thing i am concerned about is the following treatment in two weeks, since that is how long you are supposed to wait for the eggs to hatch , right?

Ok well that's all for now

Tim

It sounds like a nightmare to me.

"the zoas and clove polpys loks stressed, prolly because they were like catchers' mits for some of the meds that weren't 1000% disolved." Was that what you meant to say?

Perhaps pulling the fish out would be a better option while the reef tank is being treated, similar to removing all humans and pets when fumigating a domicile.

[zapata41]

yes, weren't is what i meant to say melev

now pull out the fish would defeat the purpose, just like pulling out all the acros, it would be near impossible.

ok well update time.

came in tonight and nothing has rtn'd on me. the chromis' are out playing as usual but are still alive and dont look stressed.

I think there must still be a lot of meds in the water though, as i cant see how a 100g water change would rid the tank of all meds. the carbon i had used last night prolly abosorbed all that it could and is exhausted, so i changed it out with about 3lbs (dry) of fresh carbon.

All corals today look ok, not 100% PE but still look good, colors are better than ever on most everything. the skin in between the coralites does look a little lighter than usual, but that may just be an ollusion since PE is 100% and lights are on so it is a little washed out looking.

The zoas and clove polyps are still angry, about 75% of the zoas are closed up, look kinda how they would after a iodine dip on them. hopefully they will pull through too.

The big tangs all look good as does the clam.

I dont havea amonia test kit but nitrites tested at zero, nitrates drop about 25ppm from last weeks testing, now down under 25ppm

I also think that the large fresh batch of phoslock is al a contributing factor to the look on everything, this and the large amounts of carbon being used might be shocking the corals and fish. Before i changed out the phos media the hair algea in the prop tank was growing like mad, as of current it is all but died back and white looking.

ok well enough jibberish from me. it gets very easy to ramble on since this is something totally new to me and a lots of other.

On the better side though, i wouldnt call this a nightmare either.

Tim

[Dudester]

"the chromis' aren't out playing as usual but are still alive and dont look stressed" - Was that what you meant to say?

Thanks for your excellent documentation of your in-tank treatment. How did you dissolve the Fluke-Tabs? We found that the tablets were very difficult to crush, and even in water they remained quite granular. We had a very difficult time getting them into solution, yet your photo shows a nice milky slurry. Did you heat the water? I would worry that this might denature some of the proteins in the medication, although you obviously showed that whatever you did, the drug still had its desired effect. Well, I assume this -- did you see a lot of dead flatworms, and did you siphon them out with your water change?

Again, thank you for sharing your experience here with everyone - I hope all ends well in your tank.

[zapata41]

i disloved the meds in hot tap water, as hot as i came from the hotwater heater, not the best source but one cup full wouldnt hurt. i still had some granualar pieces, they made it into the system and i think that is what i am fighting right now, they are kinda still disolving.

Yes that is what i meant to say. I get typing fast and dont post read everything before i post it.

To be honest, i didnt look for any dead worms while siphoning, i was in the sump room replacaing siphoned water and my wife was holding the hose to siphon from in the display.

Well this concludes the first 24hrs from treatment. All looks ok but who knows what will happen in the next few days and weeks, then i have the second treatment to do to rid all the FW that hatched from the eggs that are still in there. So that's why i am paying careful attention to everything so i can determine how i will go about the second treatment and try to make it better.

Tim

[melev]

Tim, I would think taking out fish would be important. The idea of doing an in-tank treatment was to avoid setting up a medicated dip tank, obviously. However, fish have gills and breathe oxygen and need lots of it. Corals are made differently.

Pulling the fish out would allow you to still use the product in the reef, and observe how the LR, corals, DSB and all the critters would respond.

You had some losses so far, and we don't know if there will be long term issues from this method. LR processes water, filtering and denitrifying water. It could absorb the meds and release the product later perhaps.

I think taking the plunge was pretty risky myself, and I appreciate that you are documenting what is occuring. Please do double check your posts so that we can learn from them. For example, this paragraph seems to contradict itself.

"All corals today look ok, not 100% PE but still look good, colors are better than ever on most everything. the skin in between the coralites does look a little lighter than usual, but that may just be an ollusion since PE is 100% and lights are on so it is a little washed out looking."

[zapata41]

oops that should read isnt 100%. sorry i dont get a ton of time in my evenings so i must type as fast as possible to get on and off the net.

ok well update time, unfortunately

ok well lost a few pieces over the night, in the prop tank a big formosa frag, also the parent colony from the display. A big knobby tricolor and all the frags of it. A. hyancinthus RIP,A.Austera, A.Chesterfieldensis, Big A.Tenuis ( was already showing signs of STN before treatment) and A. Nana ( also showing signs of STN) A. Gemnifera. A. Prostrata.

I am sure they are gonna be more losses as a few other corals look today how the dead ones looked yesterday.

SO hopfeully the meds arent still in the water but i dont know. I also have mixed feeling about doing the second dip in two weeks, as i feel it may lead to a total tank crash, i feel the fluke tabs must really have wreaked havok on the bacteria in the tank.

Tim

[Dudester]

Tim, you should give serious consideration to fragging ALL of your viable colonies and placing those frags into a hospital tank of some kind. Those frags will be relatively easy to treat with the dip method that's nicely described within this thread. When we did an in-tank treatment, we saw slow initial losses like you describe, and ultimately we lost almost all 80 or more colonies and frags. Fortunately frags were taken early on and those continue to live in another tank. Good luck and keep us posted.

[thedude15810]

I'll second what Dudester just said.

Frags if dipped correctly can almost certainly be rid of the flatworms and eggs have no crevices to hide in. It's a shame to lose the parent colony but the strain entirely is way worse.

Hope that your tanks turns around as we're all pulling for you.

John

[melev]

Sorry to hear that, Zapata. I hope you can save some of your corals.

[zapata41]

ok, , well i moved all the corals i could fit into my buddy's 240, darn was that a sad ordeal. The whole time i was breaking off large colonies i was thinking that i only did this treatment in tank to avoid tearing out all the corals, now i am tearing them out, some dead and some alive.

well hopefully the sick looking ones will pull through in his system. tomorrow i am gonna take the prop tank offline and change out all the water and clean the eggcrate, then i will pull all the pieces from the display, all the encrusting montis and such, and place them in there, then the display wil sit acro-less for a month or so. when i am sure there are no more bugs, i will start placing the corals back in the display.

ok well enough rambling again. dang this is starting to really suck now

guess that kinda confirms it, you cant use fluke as a display treatment like interceptor.

tank sure does look horrible empty like this

[wentreefgirl]