Vortech owner's poll

[MJAnderson]

Originally posted by OliverM3
I'm surprised at how many no votes and not a single explanation as to why they wouldn't buy another one.

Well it's a bit of a biased thread. I think anything negative would be jumped on. I know 5 people who bought them and 2 sold them and went back to Tunze, so this percentage seems about right. One was because of the heat of the unit (kids would touch it and get burned) and the other was the dead spots due to the lack of aiming that he had to fix using tunze nanos so he just went back to all Tunzes on a controller.

[OliverM3]

Originally posted by MJAnderson
Well it's a bit of a biased thread. I think anything negative would be jumped on. I know 5 people who bought them and 2 sold them and went back to Tunze, so this percentage seems about right. One was because of the heat of the unit (kids would touch it and get burned) and the other was the dead spots due to the lack of aiming that he had to fix using tunze nanos so he just went back to all Tunzes on a controller.

I didn't think it was biased and not like it stopped any one before
I wonder if the people who returned them for heat had them set right for their glass thickness? I wouldn't think so since it's so easy to adjust but you never know.
Mine only gets warm at full speed and wouldn't burn a child.

[shelburn61]

How do these compare to modded maxijets?

The Vortech controller is nice, but otherwise seems like I can get the same thing for much less. The MJs are also more aimable...

[GSMguy]

Originally posted by manofcoral
I love mine. Don't you think 3 on a 120 is overkill? I have two on a 260 and there is plenty of flow for my sps.

i have one on my 50g and im adding number 2 soon.

[einsteins]

I looked at both the vortech and the Tunze 6101.

I had never owned either brand so I looked at the options available for both....

I went with the tunze for 2 reasons....

1) the vortechs cant have the flow direction adjusted, they can only point straight ahead.

2) I have an AC3 controller and the new Aquasurf module allows for enhanced precision control of the Tunzes to create waves, surges, etc.

After purchasing the 6101's and the aquasurf I am amazed at the wave action it creates in my 120gal tank. I have a 1 to 1.5 inch wave working back and forth in the tank and you can see every polyp in the tank swaying back and forth with the wave.

Anyhow that is why I chose not to purchase the Vortechs.

einsteins

[ronharel]

I owned both - Tunze 6100 for 5 years. They did excellent job and used to be very reliable I was satisfied from the flow and results. About a year ago I decided to replace them with 2 new Vortech MP40 .There is no doubt that the Vortech are much stronger and more efficient and I see better growth and colors on my SPS corals.

1) the vortechs cant have the flow direction adjusted, they can only point straight ahead.

I'm sorry but this is a complete misunderstanding of the meaning of flow in a reef tank . Go to this link:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/1/aafeature

If you were using the Vortech you would understand why there is no need to aim it to other directions - the laminar flow is great and if your reef is built properly you'll get unlimited and variable flow

With the new controller as was represented in MACNA it looks even better and leave the Tunze well back

[MJAnderson]

Reading the article is exactly why the Vortechs aren't good for laminar flow. It is too wide. With the Tunze I can place one on the side glass towards the back pointed towards the opposite wall. I can place another on the other side toward the front and bingo, I get a circular flow. Unless your tank is 36" wide, I have not seen them able to do this. You can have two and turn them off and on, but then you reduce total flow.

My comment was more about the fact that because you can't point them, they create deadspots around overflows/rockwork.

And your comment was exactly why I said the discussion was biased. Anyone who doesn't love their Vortechs OBVIOUSLY just doesn't know any better...

[SD-Fishguy]

I purchased one a year ago and just bought another. I have no experience with the tunze.

[HBtank]

From my unbderstanding "circular flow" is not desirable, that would entail every part of the tank recieving flow in the same direction at all times... IME my coral hates this, so for me it makes it kinda moot point, even if it does keep detrius suspended better than aiming them at eachother, as this seem to create more turbulence.

And once the WWD is out and people start incorporating occilating flow and wave making capabilities from the vortechs, they will be hard to beat....

GPH numbers really go out the window with strong occilating flow, it is far better at kepping anythining suspended than any type of laminar flow as it eliminates deadspots and it is far less irritating to corals from what I have seen.

Anyways, they are both great, but with an 80g I have no room to spare and for the saem GPH I would have a huge amount of space taken up by bulky powerheads. No thank you.

[MJAnderson]

Originally posted by HBtank
From my unbderstanding "circular flow" is not desirable, that would entail every part of the tank recieving flow in the same direction at all times... IME my coral hates this, so for me it makes it kinda moot point, even if it does keep detrius suspended better than aiming them at eachother, as this seem to create more turbulence.

And once the WWD is out and people start incorporating occilating flow and wave making capabilities from the vortechs, they will be hard to beat....

GPH numbers really go out the window with strong occilating flow, it is far better at kepping anythining suspended than any type of laminar flow as it eliminates deadspots and it is far less irritating to corals from what I have seen.

Anyways, they are both great, but with an 80g I have no room to spare and for the saem GPH I would have a huge amount of space taken up by bulky powerheads. No thank you.

The article mentioned above makes the arguement that circular flow (a gyree tank) is the most effective for corals. Strong oscillating flow is what you should avoid (depending on how you do it), if you believe the study. In my frag tank I have this type of flow and I switch direction once a month so my corals don't grow sideways.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/1/aafeature

[mark728]

3 things that made my reef tanks better than most
GEO 618 CALC/REACTOR

MY HQI 250W SE 12K REEFLUX SETUPS

MY VORTECH PUMPS

would not do a reef tank without these vortech pumps they are great you get what you pay for i had a problem with a battery backup took it to my local fish store 3 days later had a new one no ? a brand new one and i think it was my fault some water got into the plugs and shorted it out .great company .buy the best once and forget about it .

[The Grim Reefer]

I got one. Had a stalling problem. Got a new wet frame. fixed the stalling problem but if I ran the pump more than maybe half speed it was a little noisey, not bad but more than I expected. Once the viberation from the pump caused it to pull the last pad for the cord off the tank I took if off. Only then did I realize how loud the thing had become. I replaced it with a couple of Korillia 4's. Very disapointed. One expensive paper weight.

[OliverM3]

Originally posted by The Grim Reefer
I got one. Had a stalling problem. Got a new wet frame. fixed the stalling problem but if I ran the pump more than maybe half speed it was a little noisey, not bad but more than I expected. Once the viberation from the pump caused it to pull the last pad for the cord off the tank I took if off. Only then did I realize how loud the thing had become. I replaced it with a couple of Korillia 4's. Very disapointed. One expensive paper weight.

You should give it another shot. Sounds like it wasn't lined up.
I haven't heard a loud one yet.
When I move mine I turn it up full blast then reach in and move the wet side till it's silent.

[The Grim Reefer]

Yep, just pulled that baby right off there without trying every trick in the book to get rid of the noise/vibration first.

[HBtank]

That's a real bummer, sounds like yours was defective..

Did you send it in to Ecotech? From what I understand, they will work on it until your rpoblem is fixed and test it to make sure it is working perfect before returning it. This customer service was big factor in me making the dive....

How long ago was it? I know they have also made modifications as well to fix some early isssues..

[HBtank]

Originally posted by MJAnderson
The article mentioned above makes the arguement that circular flow (a gyree tank) is the most effective for corals. Strong oscillating flow is what you should avoid (depending on how you do it), if you believe the study. In my frag tank I have this type of flow and I switch direction once a month so my corals don't grow sideways.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/1/aafeature

That what not the conclusion I formed.

First, I would like to see this statement referenced in more detail:

"15-22cm/s........ These velocities are within the range of ideal flow speeds for optimum particle capture, respiration and photosynthesis of many corals."

And second, he even states that he is unable to measure local velocities of turbulent flow:

"but rather it means that either the flow was not properly aligned with the flow meter or the sum of the multidirectional flows had a net velocity of 0cm/s.

And lastly, this is exactly what waveboxes, surge generators an and the new WWD claim to be able to do better than anything else, making it outside the scope of his study.

"Although reef aquariums are an attempt at recreating a natural environment, trying to reproduce surge with the scale and energy of the natural environment would take tremendous effort and resources"

That is the whole point, with ridiculous GPH powerheads like tunze and vortech you can create more natural flow and still get the velocities needed....

Not to mention my tank looks nothing like this tank shown and is not a frag tank. Those octos looks like trees in a hurricane.



Just like most things in this hobby, that article was more opinion than science.

His own reference of how inadequate laminar flow measurements are in a turbulent setup was a much better article in regards to recreating natural flow:

http://web.archive.org/web/200008311.../1/default.asp

[The Grim Reefer]

Originally posted by HBtank
That's a real bummer, sounds like yours was defective..

Did you send it in to Ecotech? From what I understand, they will work on it until your rpoblem is fixed and test it to make sure it is working perfect before returning it. This customer service was big factor in me making the dive....

How long ago was it? I know they have also made modifications as well to fix some early isssues..

No, havent sent it in yet. Got it like 6 or 8 months ago. I prepaid for the driver update so I need to get that anyway.

[SDguy]

I borrowed one from a local reefer. I really liked it. I would buy one, and will as soon as the wireless controller is out and available with the pump. I *really* like how little room it takes up in the tank.

[MJAnderson]

Originally posted by HBtank
That what not the conclusion I formed.

First, I would like to see this statement referenced in more detail:

"15-22cm/s........ These velocities are within the range of ideal flow speeds for optimum particle capture, respiration and photosynthesis of many corals."

And second, he even states that he is unable to measure local velocities of turbulent flow:

"but rather it means that either the flow was not properly aligned with the flow meter or the sum of the multidirectional flows had a net velocity of 0cm/s.

And lastly, this is exactly what waveboxes, surge generators an and the new WWD claim to be able to do better than anything else, making it outside the scope of his study.

"Although reef aquariums are an attempt at recreating a natural environment, trying to reproduce surge with the scale and energy of the natural environment would take tremendous effort and resources"

That is the whole point, with ridiculous GPH powerheads like tunze and vortech you can create more natural flow and still get the velocities needed....

Not to mention my tank looks nothing like this tank shown and is not a frag tank. Those octos looks like trees in a hurricane.



Just like most things in this hobby, that article was more opinion than science.

His own reference of how inadequate laminar flow measurements are in a turbulent setup was a much better article in regards to recreating natural flow:

http://web.archive.org/web/200008311.../1/default.asp

So his opinion, published in a magazine and backed up with research, is not as valid as yours which is backed up with 'my corals have never looked better'?

[ronharel]

MJAnderson - I'm trying to understand what is your bottom line?
You're satisfied with your Tunze it's fine - and it's not a bad product. I belive that the Vortech is much better but since you have never used them we don't have any common denominator discuss it.
Somebody else is satisfied with his Maxi Jet and it's also fine


More than 72% here voted that they would buy another Vortech I think that it's quite a majority of satisfied users.

Most of the answers here described positive reaction on the reef!!!!!

And another thing - On the Tunze pump there is no American flag.........

[HBtank]

Originally posted by MJAnderson
So his opinion, published in a magazine and backed up with research, is not as valid as yours which is backed up with 'my corals have never looked better'?

That was far from what I said. I guess you did not even bother reading my last post.

I never said his opinion was not valid.... If you do want my real "opinion", it is that his work pretty irrelevant when considering the equipment we are referencing.

He is working with maxijets and hagen powerheads...... DId you not even see that? You are comparing 200 GPH powerheads to 3000 GPH powerheads...

I could see Gyree being usefull if you are trying to obtain the conditions for SPS with much less powerfull equipment, but in reference to Vortechs or Tunze set up in a turbulent situation it really does not fit..

In fact, I might argue that the high GPH of Tunze and Vortech may exceed the 22 cm/s your article referenced in a gyree situation. It is just not needed, that is why people buy these pumps in the first place, to have high turbulent flow, or controlled flow with the cm/s values SPS like being easily reached.

That article was hardly loaded with "research" and included ZERO data. He had three references, with the only one I could actually look up not even mentioning gyree setups at all and in fact focusing on setting up good turbulent systems and the inability of even measuring turbulent systems with his "methods".

I guess where you saw "gyree is the best method for any setup", I saw "gyree can be a usefull tool if needed". Again, check his own reference for a paper with much more substantial research and is much more helpfull to our situation.

[sherm71tank]

Lots of good information here but lets keep it civilized mmmk!!

[jnarowe]

mmmm...no. We haven't had a visit from a TunzeBot yet dude!

[sherm71tank]

You must miss them. Sadist!

[GSMguy]

Originally posted by jnarowe
mmmm...no. We haven't had a visit from a TunzeBot yet dude!

Dude your bordering on a Tunze haterbot....





JK





No wait your a TunzeBot hater not a tunze hater.. i guess thats ok