Amino Acids

[eskymick]

I started using AAs two weeks ago,and I dose my SPS reef 4 times a week with them.

Last night, after being gone all day, I noticed a marked improvement in SPS color ... especially the blues and purples.

[Denadai]

I can bet that nobody here knows why they have to dose aminoacids

Why colors will improve ??? What´s the aminoacid function in a SPS coral ? What´s the relationship between colors and aminoacids ?

Regards

[IPT]

Flint&Eric may be right. AA"s are the building blocks of Protiens. Maybe they are just a clean source of nitrogen. Too bad there is no easy way to objectify color change.

As for the placebo effect - I'm all for it. However, in order for it to work the organism has to know it is injesting something. I think the coral do not know and therfore cannot respond. Or did you mean we the observer "see" better color after dosing and that is the placebo effect?

[250G]

Interesting thread. So how long have AA's been on the market for the reef tank? Someone must have used them for some amount of time?

Having experienced the additive learning curve long ago, I am always reluctant considering additives for my reef, but still find the discussion interesting.

[Mark C]

Originally posted by Denadai
I can bet that nobody here knows why they have to dose aminoacids

Why colors will improve ??? What´s the aminoacid function in a SPS coral ? What´s the relationship between colors and aminoacids ?

Regards

The benefit of amino acids has been known for awhile, its just that most people couldn't have kept a nutrient free tank long enough to even worry about it... Here is the abstract of an article from the Dec. 1991 edition of the Coral Reefs journal by Ferrier:

"High pressure liquid chromatography was employed to provide the first definitive proof of the net uptake of dissolved free amino acids (DFFA) at nanomolar levels by four scleractinian corals (Montastrea annularis, Madracis mirabilis, Agaricia fragilìs, and Favia fragum). During 2 h incubations all species exhibited simultaneous net uptake of eight amino acids. For M. annularis and F. fragum uptake of some dissolved amino acids occurred at concentrations lower than those found in reef waters. Microbial activity or adsorption of DFAA to exposed coral skeletons during these experiments did not appear to be important. Although it seems unlikely that DFAA uptake can provide a significant energy source for corals under ambient condìtions, it may be important in the acquisition and retention of nitrogen by these animals."

The last line is the important one for reefkeepers... It basically implies that in a nutrient deprived tank, dosing amino acids could lead to better acquistion and retention of nitrogen, which in turn can enhance their color.

[Fish2reef]

I started using Zeo in my tank and did not notice the difference until four month into the change started adding the AA and wow what a difference, might not be color but overall health and polyp extension.

[IPT]

Mark, thanks for the reference. As much as we can rely on hear-say and personal or other's experiences, it is always nice when science agrees. I just may try AA's and see what happens.

[kev apsley]

Essentially hobbyist who have extremely low nutrient tanks can benefit from AA's because their water column is so stripped clean of nutrients that the corals zooxanthellae slowly starve from lack of food/energy. If that is the case, as a few folks on here have mentioned, people with low nutrient tanks can either a) feed more/add more fish b) dose AA's to increase the available uptake of nitrogen into the zooxanthellae, which in turn will create more UV protecting algae/colors in the corals. On the other hand there are a lot of people just dumping AA's into their tanks assuming that it is a magic elixir, where in actuality they probably already have enough nitrogen in their systems that the zooxanthellae are already fat and happy.


I only seeing it being a good source for lower nutrient systems not everyone IMHO

[King-Kong]

Originally posted by reefnetworth

Iodide will help with the color.

What makes you think this? Do you have any sources?

[King-Kong]

Originally posted by Flint&Eric
bacteria use them....corals can also uptake them. we dont know which is happening first, but some very low nutrient tanks do show improvements from aa's.

so which bacterias are utilizing the aa's and how/who is turning it into ammonia? the tiny amount of ammonia that could be produced from them is really of no concern to a properly set up reef.

aa's are a "clean" organic nitrogen source...one that does not break down into po4.

..but dont SPS actively farm bacteria? Make the bacteria happy, make the SPS happy.

[King-Kong]

Originally posted by kev apsley
Essentially hobbyist who have extremely low nutrient tanks can benefit from AA's because their water column is so stripped clean of nutrients that the corals zooxanthellae slowly starve from lack of food/energy. If that is the case, as a few folks on here have mentioned, people with low nutrient tanks can either a) feed more/add more fish b) dose AA's to increase the available uptake of nitrogen into the zooxanthellae, which in turn will create more UV protecting algae/colors in the corals. On the other hand there are a lot of people just dumping AA's into their tanks assuming that it is a magic elixir, where in actuality they probably already have enough nitrogen in their systems that the zooxanthellae are already fat and happy.


I only seeing it being a good source for lower nutrient systems not everyone IMHO

I agree with this. And I would also add a C) option, as stated above; SPS actively harvesting bacteria

[gasman059]

Originally posted by 250G
Interesting thread. So how long have AA's been on the market for the reef tank? Someone must have used them for some amount of time?

Having experienced the additive learning curve long ago, I am always reluctant considering additives for my reef, but still find the discussion interesting.

That's me . Always consider it but end up shying away.

[abark]

I have been dosing Elos AA's for one week now and I can see a definite improvement in two of my corals that have become pale over time. I have been activley battling macro algaes for a year and half and I only won the battle when I stripped the water column of all organics. I used wet skimming and agressive carbon and GFO filtration. Over time the source of the problem, my live rock, also depleted its source but my corals suffered by displaying pale coloration.

From the beginning of June to mid July I completely neglected my tank due to work travel. I don't think my colors ever looked better in my SPS at the end of the travel session but my macros also loved it. Once I replaced my reactor media and did a few water changes my corals lightened again which led me to trying AA's as a way to add a clean energy source.

As to the notion that AA's are a fad or an elixer just remember that Amino Acids are the building blocks of life. Without them no life would exist. AA's are the building blocks of proteins and proteins are the building blocks of DNA. I think we can all agree that DNA exists within our corals so they do play a role. How they play a role can be debated but to say they are a placebo is a strech.

That being said I do believe that AA's in the modern reef only applies to people that try to keep a very low nutrient environment. When I started dosing aminos I knew why I was doing so and I did not expect any other result other than better coloration.

[jthnhale]

I've been using fauna marins Ultra-Min S for about 5 weeks now. I have an SPS dominated tank and keep the PO4 as low as I can, .002 on a hanna meter.

My colors were always on the pale side, after a month of dosing 2ml a day they have greatly improved. The colors have deepened and look great.

One side effect is that I get green algae growing on the glass very quickly. Without the AA's my tank would go days without needing to be cleaned. Now in one day the algae needs to be scraped off.

[jwre]

I use the KZ aminos and see definite reaction from the coral in terms of polyp extension, colour and growth. I also believe the use of aminos has the best result in a low nutrient environment.

[crazedreefer]

Someone mentioned using powder...I would be very cautious due to most human products containing phosphates...There are somethings I would like to add to the tank, that is for humans but they all have phosphates in them and that makes me nervous.

[johns]

As to the notion that AA's are a fad or an elixer just remember that Amino Acids are the building blocks of life. Without them no life would exist. AA's are the building blocks of proteins and proteins are the building blocks of DNA. I think we can all agree that DNA exists within our corals so they do play a role.

Not doing this to be rude, but you have a thing or 2 backwards here.

Yes, AA are the building blocks of proteins. But proteins definitely are not the building blocks of DNA. DNA is the source material. It is basically a nucleotide chain that serves as a 'code' for which AA should be used in the protein being built. Every set of 3 DNA nucleotides codes for a single AA to be added to a peptide chain. Later down the road, this peptide chain gets a few more alterations and then folds up into a protein.

Not trying to negate your points are argue the issue at hand really. Just wanted to clarify.

[250G]

Agreed. Since adding my 2 big triggers and feeding them daily, along with my acans, I have seen my colours darken over the past month.

Originally posted by kev apsley
Essentially hobbyist who have extremely low nutrient tanks can benefit from AA's because their water column is so stripped clean of nutrients that the corals zooxanthellae slowly starve from lack of food/energy. If that is the case, as a few folks on here have mentioned, people with low nutrient tanks can either a) feed more/add more fish b) dose AA's to increase the available uptake of nitrogen into the zooxanthellae, which in turn will create more UV protecting algae/colors in the corals. On the other hand there are a lot of people just dumping AA's into their tanks assuming that it is a magic elixir, where in actuality they probably already have enough nitrogen in their systems that the zooxanthellae are already fat and happy.

I only seeing it being a good source for lower nutrient systems not everyone IMHO

[Greg Hiller]

The scientific articles (tracer studies that also controlled for bacterial/zooxanthelle contamination) that I have read regarding amino acid uptake and utilization in corals are fairly conclusive, IMO. Corals DO (or can) take up many free amino acids directly from the water around them. Whether they actually benefit from free amino acids in terms of growth, color, etc. is clearly NOT proven in the scientific literature. Whether they actually take them up from the water column (if they are even IN the water column) on the reef in the natural environment to any significant degree is also, IMO, has really not been proved.

One might hypothesize that if the transporters on the surface of the corals are there, and they seem to be, then they are probably there for a good reason (nature never wastes resources on things not needed), and that corals need, and regularly take up free amino acids from the water around them. OTOH, however, it may be that there is no active 'tranporter' system at all, but the corals perhaps take up all kinds of stuff from the water around them, and in the studies in the lab that were performed, the amino acids come along for the 'ride.'

johns...thanks for the correction on the DNA stuff...when I see errors like that getting 'propagated' it really drives me nuts

[salt-rookie]

I'm convinced t try this....I just ordered 4 bottles from Premium...I'll keep you posted!

Phil

[stony_corals]

Unless your system is nutrient poor, as indicated by pastel colored sps, not test kits, you probably won't see (to our eyes) much effect...

[Mark C]

Originally posted by stony_corals
Unless your system is nutrient poor, as indicated by pastel colored sps, not test kits, you probably won't see (to our eyes) much effect...

Yup, thats exactly my tank... Both by color and by test kits. I just ordered Saliferts Amino Acids, so I'll take pictures before I start dosing them. I'll post up the pictures when I get them, and then come back to this thread in a month or two to see if there is any noticeable difference.

[salt-rookie]

I modified my skimmer and am running UV to rid my system of water borne algae.....my colors have since faded......I'm hoping this will bring the colors back!!!!!!! I'll take before and after pics also!

[sammy33]

It would be nice to know what aminos are actually effective. The abstract quoted below mentions "eight amino acids" that were used. Does anyone have a full copy of this journal? I did find this journal report but was unable to download it as you have to be affiliated with a library or school to gain access.

I have seen Aspartic acid, L-Glutamine and Creatine mentioned in various threads and references as being useful. Seachem Reef Plus (that I use) actually lists the ingredients on the bottle but none of those aminos are listed?

Ascorbic Acid (Vit C) 5.0 mg
Thiamin (B1) 0.02 mg
Riboflavin (B2) 0.02 mg
Niacin (B3) 0.25 mg
Pantothenate (B5) 0.07 mg
Vitamin B12 0.9 µg
Choline (B4) 0.004 mg

Inositol 0.011 mg
Arginine 0.16 mg
Glutamate 0.9 mg
Lysine 0.3 mg
Tyrosine 0.19 mg

The first section appears to be mostly vitamins with the second section mostly aminos. Any of you that are using the other amino products like zeo or salifert have ingredient lists?

Originally posted by Mark C
The benefit of amino acids has been known for awhile, its just that most people couldn't have kept a nutrient free tank long enough to even worry about it... Here is the abstract of an article from the Dec. 1991 edition of the Coral Reefs journal by Ferrier:

"High pressure liquid chromatography was employed to provide the first definitive proof of the net uptake of dissolved free amino acids (DFFA) at nanomolar levels by four scleractinian corals (Montastrea annularis, Madracis mirabilis, Agaricia fragilìs, and Favia fragum). During 2 h incubations all species exhibited simultaneous net uptake of eight amino acids. For M. annularis and F. fragum uptake of some dissolved amino acids occurred at concentrations lower than those found in reef waters. Microbial activity or adsorption of DFAA to exposed coral skeletons during these experiments did not appear to be important. Although it seems unlikely that DFAA uptake can provide a significant energy source for corals under ambient condìtions, it may be important in the acquisition and retention of nitrogen by these animals."

The last line is the important one for reefkeepers... It basically implies that in a nutrient deprived tank, dosing amino acids could lead to better acquistion and retention of nitrogen, which in turn can enhance their color.

[sammy33]

Any of you that are using the other amino products like zeo or salifert have ingredient lists?