PETCO bans all NEA Reef Club members!

[poo-tang]

i have to agree that petco cares nothing about the animals they sell. here, in chicago we have many many great LFS owners who maintain great stores/systems. Petco is more accesble and cheaper and prolly take a lot of business from these LFS's, in the form of newbies. In turn these newbies buy sick animals eventually they sour on it and never enkoy the hobby, and quit. this is not good for anyone including Petco. I personally have banned petco cuz everytime i go there all they have is dead or dying animlas and it is truely sad. i say good luck to you, and continue to try to reach out to petco to solve this problem. hopefully this can eventually have an effect on their policy as a corporation on the proper maintainence routine.

[guardrail]

sounds alot like the petco up in greeley... i cant even go in there its so sad to see the fish the tanks are all getting overdosed with ich meds that dont work. last time i was there i watched a damsil die right infront of my eyes and i saw a yellow tang stuffed in a 10 gallon rack tank with ich, finrot and HLLE... i almost bought him just to get him out of there but im a poor college student and cant go around buying fish i want to save...

[tgreene]

Originally posted by USC-fan
It may be too late but i would ask the GM if your club could volunteer at the store to help fix the problems. In return maybe they could: give your club a 5% discount, let you hold club meetings at the store, or at least post flyer's for you club. Since this is your only LFS i would try to work with them to fix the problem.

As I've already stated, we had made many, Many, MANY offers to do these things. The former GM actually came to us, became a member of our site, and asked what he could do to help us to help him... The aquatic specialist at that time also use to borrow our books, routinely make visits to different systems, and most importantly wanted to learn how to do things properly.

In regards to quarantining, most of us we do take every possible precaution, and I generally dip eachand every coral that goes into any of my systems, but things can and do happen.

The absurdity is that we are seen as a threat, rather than a group of individuals that has the knowledge, tools, time and initiative to offer to help.

On multiple occassions I have been told that they cannot accept any "outside" help, I've suggested that they hire me then fire me in a few days (I'm a self employed programmer, so I could easily swing it) after everything is back to where it needs to be, because the resolution is actually quite simple... I'm always to ld the same thing, "That's worth considering..."

I spent several years in retail management, and when something was wrong with one of my stores, REGARDLESS OF WHO POINTED IT OUT, it was dealt with a corrected as quickly as possible. When any of my employees came up short in regards to their performance expectations, they were warned, written up, transferred or fired, and we didn't have the lives of animals to contend with.

-Tim

[melev]

I guess for now it would be best to just disassociate with the store and do all you can on your club's site to let your members and future members know what they should be doing in regards to quaratine and hospital tanks as they acquire new livestock from your local stores.

If you can present the information clearly and without being derogatory, that may good enough. You never know if those stores look up your site from time to time. If they like what they see, they may change their attitude and work with you in the future.

[tgreene]

Originally posted by melev
I guess for now it would be best to just disassociate with the store and do all you can on your club's site to let your members and future members know what they should be doing in regards to quaratine and hospital tanks as they acquire new livestock from your local stores.

This is Arkansas, and most folks simply cannot afford to have multiple QT systems up and running, even though I completely agree with you in that regard.

A store that cares enough to maintain healthy systems is what we're after, because as it stands, everything sold will die due to system shock, parasites, disease or (D) all of the above.

Obviously were quite passionate about this!

-Tim

[steve the plumb]

You should start up your own business.Like I said buy online and get healthy livestock.If the store doesn't want to change it won't.You are better off ordering online together as a group.You would be surprised as to the quality of fish and corals you can find.If the business is reputable they won't sell you sick fish or corals.I used to buy corals and fish online but you always like to see them before you buy. I know its harder to tell from a computer screen but in general you will get what you paid for and it will be healthy.I will buy some fish online in the future,from what I paid at the LFS its cheaper online and the place I order from has very healthy fish.The guy is always nice to me and I like the fact that they take there time to answer your questions.With the LFS sometimes its a hit or miss depending were they buy from.Most corporations operate they way they do.They have a set agenda and they don't dive a dam.Its hard to change them.Best thing is not to buy from them.If they lose money thats the only way they will learn.

[Mickadee]

I am an objective person as I do not live in that area but almost an hour and half away. I have been to alot of the stores in Arkansas, Memphis, Indiana, and Illinoise. I am part of the NEA club and at first these guys seem to be abit over zelous. After getting to know them all and seeing the conditions first hand I applaude them. With that being said IF I didnt know what they have done and had worked with the stores I would probably agree with you guys on this BUT> There is always a but LOL

other than ordering online there are 2 choices in that area to go to one being the LFS that was said earlier. when you walked in the door you were hit by a strong urin smell from the puppies that were in horrid conditions with no food or water most of the time. *the state was brought in on them on this aspect along with ignoring the clean air act of the state* Now when you went to the awuatics area there were always mutiple dead fish in all the systems including their display tanks. The club went in on their own time to help the store out to have a quaility place to purchase. It back fired once the owner got what he wanted out of it he threw a fit and banned the club!! he was also known for price changing at the cage or tank it was one price another when you went to check out.

so where the other option Petco when I first started driving to jonesboro I loved to go into petco it was clean and disease free if there was a disease in the tank it was shut down and nothing was sold out of that tank. The situation went from the best petco I had ever been into to one that I refuse to go into. The last time I was there they sold a tang covered in ich for an outrageous price as a rare white spot tang!!!! it was a plain old yellow tang nothing special!! but since they "specialist said so it was a rare species, When I said something (I have a problem with saying things when they are right) I was asked to leave the store. the conditions of the tanks were horrible the advice is horrible. And alot of people end up coming to the club for help on their problems that could have been avoided if its not to late already!

There are no other options for these guys other than a long drive to another town. I am a even more screwed up way becasue it takes me 1 and 1/2 hours to get to any type of store and another 30 to a decent one. The club is very devout on their tanks and what they put in. They have went in a talk to them and expressed concern and the want to help to fix the problems that is going on to benifit not just themselves but everyone else in the area to have a qualilty place to purchase healthy stock. it has all been met with disregaurd and sarcasm on the buisness part this didnt happen over night by any means the club has been working with and talking to petco and the other store about a year or more now with the end result being the club being banned from the store~!! its insane to say the least.

BTW I consider myself to be versed in keeping SWF and reef tanks with almost 12 years of experience and I learn something new everyday. So I am not a newbie that beleives anything and everything that is being said by people.


Mike

[tgreene]

That's just it Steve, I am in the business, but I only handle corals at this point in time... Primarily I do custom system builds, maintenance and consulting.

In regards to fish, I do buy online, but it would be lovely to be able to have a local store that is trustyworthy enough to be able to buy from... I know my clients would certainly be happy, as would the other reef club members.

-Tim

[tgreene]

Originally posted by Mickadee
The club went in on their own time to help the store out to have a quaility place to purchase. It back fired once the owner got what he wanted out of it he threw a fit and banned the club!!

He did that because they saw Nitrates for the first time ever, freaked out, and pulled the systems we built. As I posted earlier; for the first time ever they were experiencing a full cycle, and as bizarre as it sounds, they had absolutely no idea what was happening and refused to continue to listen to any of us.

Additionally, many club members actually DONATED personal items and copious amounts of various macros for that particular project, though it was all for naught.

-Tim

[steve the plumb]

Unless you start up another tank you will never be able to get fish from Petco.We don't have that chain here in Canada.The thing is its not in the stores best interest to have fish die on them.Now if they want to sell the fish as fast as they can before it dies and thats there attitude why would you even bother to shop from them its not a good business practice..I am lucky in the sense that we do have many stores here that sell corals and fish not always cheap but they are available.If you wanted to start up a system(2 to 4 tanks) and start selling fish slowly I guess.Most of the shops here have about 10 tanks 30 to 50 gal with fish inside.You could start of small, but the fact is you would need more room and money.Fish dealers will get better prices on fish.How much money can you make ,that I don't know depends on demand.If you have a good amount of clients you will sell the fish plus they won't mind paying a little extra knowing that your fish are healthy.I had thought of doing that in my second garage.I don't know what the wife will think.

[tgreene]

I already have a several hundred gallon coral growout system in my basement, as well as a pair of 100g rock vats, and I keep adding more and more...

[poppin_fresh]

The Petco near me no longer carries SW fish. I guess they just didn't sell enough to make it worth their while. They only had Chromis, Yellow Tangs and Lunare Wrasses at any time I was in there. A couple of the small LFSs around here have much worse conditions than the Petco tanks.

I must say, that the one time I bought a couple Blue/Green Chromis, the young girl that got them for me put me through the wringer. She asked all kinds of questions before she would let me buy them.

Unfortunately, the stores near you sound quite a bit different from the store here. Its really too bad that they dont seem to care about the livestock.

[D-Rod]

I hope you're targeting all independent LFS also and not just Petco, yes Petco has had alot of problems and their track record varies from store to store, however the majority of LFS are just as bad if not worse in keeping the water quality within guidelines.
As in any business nobody likes to be called out and being told what their doing is wrong, they more than likely already know there are just buying time or really just don't care., most will say thanks for the heads up but than never completly fix the problem and continue to neglect it. This happens more in the corporate world...and small independent stores whose attitude is they really don't care about fish but the demand is there and they would never pass up a $$$ so the other area LFS don't get all his business.
There are very few perfect LFS's and when you find one it's a sure joy to go into.

[tgreene]

Originally posted by D-Rod
I hope you're targeting all independent LFS also and not just Petco...

Yes, as was very clearly indicated in my posts above.

The issue at hand is a CORPORATE DECISION to ban all of the 100+ members of a local/regional reef club, especially when we used to have a wonderful working relationship under a different manager & specific employee... This decision is so far beyond absurd, that it's actually laughable!

Let's see: **** off an entire buying group, or fire a couple employees that DO NOT have the companies best interests at heart.

The sound sane logic is that if we're happy, then more and more people will shop at Petco for things other that aquatics. As it currently stands, we couldn't spend a dime there if we wanted to, so mailorder gets the aquatics stuff, and Walmart gets everything else.

-Tim

[LobsterOfJustice]

I dont see why your so determined to give them your business after all this. Your 100+ members should put together groups buys every few weeks. Sounds like they are going to lose a lot of money.

[USC-fan]

Originally posted by tgreene
As I've already stated, we had made many, Many, MANY offers to do these things. The former GM actually came to us, became a member of our site, and asked what he could do to help us to help him... The aquatic specialist at that time also use to borrow our books, routinely make visits to different systems, and most importantly wanted to learn how to do things properly.

In regards to quarantining, most of us we do take every possible precaution, and I generally dip eachand every coral that goes into any of my systems, but things can and do happen.

The absurdity is that we are seen as a threat, rather than a group of individuals that has the knowledge, tools, time and initiative to offer to help.

On multiple occasions I have been told that they cannot accept any "outside" help, I've suggested that they hire me then fire me in a few days (I'm a self employed programmer, so I could easily swing it) after everything is back to where it needs to be, because the resolution is actually quite simple... I'm always to ld the same thing, "That's worth considering..."

I spent several years in retail management, and when something was wrong with one of my stores, REGARDLESS OF WHO POINTED IT OUT, it was dealt with a corrected as quickly as possible. When any of my employees came up short in regards to their performance expectations, they were warned, written up, transferred or fired, and we didn't have the lives of animals to contend with.

-Tim

Seems like you did everything you could. Maybe it's time write to your local newspaper.

[Wrench]

You may want to consider setting up an account with one of the suppliers out near LA. Get yourselves a business license and a tax ID number. Tell the wholesaler your situation and explain that you would like to have access to quality livestock for members of your club. They may be willing to work with you even though you haven't got an actual 'business'.

[Conceyted]

I think you went a little overboard here. I can understand your concerns but this is very much the talk of extremist groups. You are going a bit too far with this and I can understand why they banned you.

[tgreene]

Originally posted by Wrench
You may want to consider setting up an account with one of the suppliers out near LA. Get yourselves a business license and a tax ID number. Tell the wholesaler your situation and explain that you would like to have access to quality livestock for members of your club. They may be willing to work with you even though you haven't got an actual 'business'.

Arghhhhhh, I sincerely wish people would take the time to read before responding...

I AM IN BUSINESS
I HAVE A TAX ID#
I HAVE A BUSINESS LICENSE
I AM INCORPORATED AS AN LLC

I am not however leading a militant extremist group that is planning a seige at dawn. -- 12 Monkey's this isn't!

[Stoner Tang]

Are you trying to get a couple of their employees fired?

[aastretch64]

Petco sells coral?!?!? Not here in Chicago.

[tgreene]

I would greatly prefer that they become educated and responsible enough to fulfill their job requirements...

-HOWEVER-

If they wish to continue to repeatedly lie to their customers and not care an ounce about the livestock in their charge, then YES, I certainly do believe they need to go!


Please understand that the issue isn't so much that we've been banned in general, but rather that we've been banned for voicing our concerns about the health and well being of thier livestock!!!

Sure it's nice to be able to walk in and grab some dry goods every now and again when I run out, but there is absolutely nothing that they sell that I can't get from any of the wholesalers for a fraction of the price & a 2-3 day wait.

Again, the issue is that they are more concerned about covering up the problems and pretending they don't exist, rather than addressing them appropriately.

-Tim

[shorjai]

Originally posted by aastretch64
Petco sells coral?!?!? Not here in Chicago.

yah they do sell it in NYC too but very little

[zenn]

I can only speak for what I know, but in Nebraska, generally speaking, the worst tank conditions I've every seen existed at a Petco Store. It's quite often that I see paled, starving yellow tangs with their fins all rotted out swiming desperately around in a 30g tank. I honestly don't understand how they make any money in marine fish with all the animals that die in their tanks. If I was an executive looking for a way to improve their business, the first thing I'd do is either cut or improve their marine fish/coral side of the business. It just doesn't seem to be working.

[jimmyj7090]

I commend your efforts, but do they care?

It's petco, if they make $ they are happy.

Your good advice is nice but it's not making them any $ since YOUR livestock isn't dying and thus your probably not spending any $ there. It uses up their employee's valuable (nose picking, watching fish die) time and produces no profits that they could ever see unless they listened to you. That's the catch 22 here.

I suggest that you have a T shirt made up that says "I got banned from petco" and start selling it. I'll buy one.

I don't mean to be callous toward the livestock that may be lost due to petco's mishandling, but in the end it's dollars and cents. In the end, your being banned might be doing more good than your efforts to help them. The more people that hear about it and and be informed, the less they will (I hope) spend less or none there.

Afterall, it's all about where the $ goes. Public education might be a more effective strategy here.

Happy reefing and good luck whatever happens.