The Ultimate DIY Rocks! - Page 16

pito · #**376** 01/14/2007, 11:00 PM

iceman, If you cure your rock right (in RO/DI), you should'nt have to worry about phosphate. If you make them right, you should'nt have them crack on you. I can stand on mine and I weight 170. I can DIY a stand way stronger and a bit cheaper than I could buy one. So, should I get out the hobby for saveing a buck? People have been DIYing LR for years my friend. Yes, you should buy the right stuff first or you will end up upgrading. That just means you need to know what your goal is. It's the same with DIY. You need to DIY the right stuff for the over all goal of your tank or you'll need to make something over or bigger.

BigSkyBart · #**377** 01/14/2007, 11:02 PM

Pito,
very well put

Michael Mota · #**378** 01/15/2007, 10:25 AM

Very good thread, gave me some nice ideas for my diy rock this time around for the new tank. Thanks to all.

impur · #**379** 01/15/2007, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by iceman5
isn't this hobby $$ enought and then everyone wants to go cheap and make your own rock ( i did AND deicided not to and spend the extra $ which isnt that much ! )i love the idea of making your own rock so you sAVE the natural resources but by the time you buy the tank , stand, skimmer, lights ,bulbs, substrate, sump, pumps hose , and live stock, then you want to chance phoshate rich man made rock. like i said i made some but why chance it you make some cure it then it cracks or breaks then your phos. goes up? live rock is not that $$$ and if you think it is you should find a different hobby . this is all just my opinion . some one once told me buy the right thing right away or you will buy something twice! good luck everyone if you try it but dont cry when you have problems

Buying LR doesn't ensure there are no phosphates. Just skim some of the threads in the general forum. Not to mention the difficulty stacking the rock to get the look you want does not always work out perfect.

With DIY rock you get exact shapes you want, save LOTS of $$$(100lbs at 3-5 bucks a pound is a lot of $$ to most ppl, maybe not you), and help by not taking it out of its natural place.

thriceanangel · #**380** 01/15/2007, 12:26 PM

Maybe because in his sig line that he has only just recently converted to reef hobby, he underestimates all the costs that go into it. (Salt, electricity, bulbs, salt, chemicals, tank cleaners, and salt) I think I listed salt once too much, but being that water changes export my phosphates and nitrates, and etc. it's better than 7/ lb for LR especially when my DIY isn't leaching PO3 anyway.

Tank and equipment are one thing, live rock is another. It's VERY expensive to most of the world. IMO the biggest single investment. I have made this rock, and I am VERY happy with it. I am currently building a 240 gal cube, and it will have predominantly DIY rock. And I don't expect any problems with it.

callmetodd · #**381** 01/15/2007, 06:13 PM

I made these pilars:

Here's how:
placed 12" long 1 1/2 pvc in a bucket and filled around them with salt

filled with 2:1 salt:cement mixture (a little on the wet side for easier flowing)

then removed the pvc by slowly lifting and twisting. after the first one, I decided to continue to pour as I removed to make up for the lateral flow

I think they turned out quite well and was suprised that they actually stand up on their own. Now to let them soak

Kurt03 · #**382** 01/15/2007, 10:03 PM

are you going to attach stuff to the sides or how are you planning to use these?

callmetodd · #**383** 01/15/2007, 10:38 PM

I originally made them to go in the corners next to the overflows but I'm not sure how exactly they'll work out.

hesstondc · #**384** 01/16/2007, 01:17 AM

I added three cups crushed oyster shells, three cups cement and one cup water...And the rocks aren't staying together

Now I bought a small bag of ready mix cement...It has rocks in it already is this going to be ok? I don't know if this is going to be strong enough...

I bought white cement that you use to cover outside block walls and it has alot of fiberglass fibers in it so I decided to not use it...The stuff was $17 a bag....
Can anyone help?

My mix dosn't look as grey as everyone's either...I am about to give up on this...I have spent $40 already...

hesstondc · #**385** 01/16/2007, 01:18 AM

you could make some sort of sunken bridge with those pillars if you had the time, I think they look cool

Kurt03 · #**386** 01/16/2007, 02:09 AM

if its just falling apart you might have it to dry. Add more water untill it starts to clump up when you squeeze it.

pito · #**387** 01/16/2007, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hesstondc

Now I bought a small bag of ready mix cement...It has rocks in it already is this going to be ok? I don't know if this is going to be strong enough...

You don't wanna use the stuff with the rocks or the fiberglass. This is what you wanna use

Joshsmit56001 · #**388** 01/16/2007, 07:27 PM

Is there really any truth to the idea that curing the rock in RO water is better than tap water with regards to algae growth? I know a lot of people cure their rock in tap water. RO/DI water use during this process just seems ridiculous to me because you are actually using a heck of a lot more water than if you used tap water.

Insane Reefer · #**389** 01/16/2007, 09:10 PM

It's all going to grow algae. Some think that RO water will not add any other elements to the mix, but I think the impact is going to be about the same either way - your going to grow algae; unless you can wait a year or two for the readily used nutrients to be leeched away and diligently change water.

I really like the pillar thing, CMT. If you want to go for the more natural look, you can now add more cement to the structure. If you use a box, and lay in a bed of salt, you can easily turn those from perfect cylinders to blobby/lumpy more natural forms.
Good job though!

jman77 · #**390** 01/16/2007, 10:07 PM

Guys did u use the Base-Coat Stucco or Finish Coat Stucco ?

coryjac0b · #**391** 01/17/2007, 10:21 AM

so, im ready to do a second batch, from what i've read, i still can't get the general recipe for the rocks, can anyone inform me please?

my first batch was made about a year ago, gonna be needing some more rock soon. the recipe i used was 1 part portland cement to 4 parts crushed oyster shells.

can i use that or no?

pito · #**392** 01/17/2007, 03:07 PM

What are you all doing with the wast water? Can it be used to wash clothes or something?

tankslave · #**393** 01/17/2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Insane Reefer
It's all going to grow algae. Some think that RO water will not add any other elements to the mix, but I think the impact is going to be about the same either way - your going to grow algae; unless you can wait a year or two for the readily used nutrients to be leeched away and diligently change water.

Whether you grow algae or not later is very relative! Trust me, if I want to grow algae, I'll grow algae!

And who started this idea that the DIY rocks are going to leach nutrients or phosphate!!!?!

I'm soaking them in RO/DI (The DI is the important part) to remove any silicate and to minimize the pH swing. What Phosphate?!?

pito · #**394** 01/17/2007, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by coryjac0b
so, im ready to do a second batch, from what i've read, i still can't get the general recipe for the rocks, can anyone inform me please?

my first batch was made about a year ago, gonna be needing some more rock soon. the recipe i used was 1 part portland cement to 4 parts crushed oyster shells.

can i use that or no?

The general mix is 2.5 or 3 parts salt to one part cement

FragMadness · #**395** 01/17/2007, 11:06 PM

this link is giving me so many ideas to try hehehe

Icefire · #**396** 01/18/2007, 01:52 AM

Anyone tryed Quikrete Quickwall cement? It set in 15min, can be put in water quite quick since it's EPA Potable water certified.

http://www.quikrete.com/uploadedfiles/39344956.pdf

Quote:

Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Potable Water Applications

pito · #**397** 01/18/2007, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pito
What are you all doing with the wast water? Can it be used to wash clothes or something?

hesstondc · #**398** 01/18/2007, 08:38 AM

Icefire, that is what I used...I have a whole stiniking bag of it that I can't use now....It has little pieces of fiberglass in it. Each one is about an inch long and it make the rock look hairy....Plus there is no way that stuff will ever stay in the rock so you will find it floating around the tank I bet....Like dog hair....

greatgman001 · #**399** 01/18/2007, 08:42 AM

hey guys
i need to ask why my rock is splitting and turning to mush
i used bsb recipe #3
this morning before the fish woke up i needed to move a rock that looks like it shifted and it practicly desintegrated in my hand
i cured it for 2 months changing the fresh water out every other day

Insane Reefer · #**400** 01/18/2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tankslave
Whether you grow algae or not later is very relative! Trust me, if I want to grow algae, I'll grow algae!

And who started this idea that the DIY rocks are going to leach nutrients or phosphate!!!?!

I'm soaking them in RO/DI (The DI is the important part) to remove any silicate and to minimize the pH swing. What Phosphate?!?

Number one, you do realize that the chemical processes that create hardened cement, do not stop just because you drop the rock in water, be it RO/DI or not, don't you? RO/DI is not a magical solution - all it is going to do is make sure you aren't adding anything else bad to the stew while you kure, such as the phosphates and all the other stuff found in most potable and groundwater. Cement has been found to still be making a chemical reaction for something like 100 years. 100 years. Chemical reactions making that cement harder and harder, and Nothing you or I can do can stop it. Period. That's why if you have ever tried to remove a very old cement pad or the like and it seemed like it was made of iron - its been "curing" all these years.

Number three, you also realize that there are a lot of chemicals/elements that are leeched off by cement that plant life thrives on, such as lime. Is phosphate one of those? I don't know, never said it was (though I do believe that chicken feed crushed oyster shell is cleaned by chemical process and thereby sucks up some of the phosphates in the cleaning solution - which is why I don't use CO in my mix), but phosphates are only one thing that may or may not be leeched.

So, assuming our rock is still "Actively" curing, even though we have kured it, and knowing that plant life loves the very things we are trying to kure out it, which for at least a while is going to still be produced by the "fresh" cement, why on earth would you think that you aren't going to grow a bumper crop of algae?
Or cop such an outraged attitude about it?

There is a reason that the manufacturers of man made rock kure their rock for so long (Garf claims a year) before dumping it for seeding (another 6 months) - it gives the rocks time to form a layer that is nutrient reduced, and less likely to produce unwanted algae blooms when first introduced to the aquarium...

PS - a curious streak in my prompted a quick google search. And while I can't say "Cement contains phosphates", I can say that the number of states in the US that number cement in their states trade goods/resources, also list limestone and phoshates as trade goods. I live in an area where cement and limestone are manufactured and mined - the two are always on the same acreage - if this is the case with phosphate mining, you'd almost have to assume that there are going to be some phosphates in the cement manufactured at these locales.