Elegance Coral theory

[ssterling]

Elegance,

I will send you some pics today of my elegance which does not look well. It has looked unhappy since I got it from LFS. I have tried several location in my tank with no success yet. First I placed it wedged between live rock (mid depth) with partial shade, then in the sand with partial shade, then in the sand with full exposure. It slowly just looks worse. My wife said it looks the best in the morning before the lights come on. Should I try totally shading it for awhile?

I have a 225g, 30" deep mostly SPS tank with 2-400W 20K DE MH IceCap pendants. 82 to 84 Deg, Cal:440, Alk: 3 to 4 meq/l, Mg:1350 other nutrients all at zero.

Cheers

[elegance coral]

Thanks for the pics.
I'm going to assume you have an Indo Pacific Elegance.

I hate to say it, but with those lights and that temperature, I don't think you will find a spot where the coral can survive. My lights are not as strong as yours and if my temp starts pushing 79 or 80 my corals will begin to react poorly. I believe that the reason they look their best in the AM around the time the lights come on is that they have had all night, with no photosynthesis, to relieve themselves of the Excess oxygen produced during the day. The lights come back on, photosynthesis begins again and the oxygen level within the coral climb back up to damaging levels. Every day this happens more and more of the cells within the coral become damaged. Eventually different organisms will begin to break down this damaged tissues and their populations will grow. The infection spreads until it takes over the entire coral and all is lost. I'm sorry, and I wish I had better news for you, but I don't think you will be able to stop this process.

[ssterling]

Thanks Elegance,

Here is a very low res picture. I can send a better one tomorrow.

Not sure if I wan to drop my tank temp to 78 since all else seems to be doing so well but perhaps I could try it. I know many folks keep SPS tanks at 78 with success.

[elegance coral]

I would just find a spot out of direct intense light and hope for the best. Does it eat at all? It's hard to tell how bad off it is from the pic.

[ssterling]

Thanks. From what I have read from this thread it sounds like you feed your corals regularly. I have not ever fed this elegance coral because I was waiting for it to look better first. But now of course I could be waiting indefinitely. What do you feed yours and how often? Also, there are dark brown spots all over my coral. I don't remember noticing them until lately. Perhaps they were always there and I am just now seeing them because my coral is much paler than when I got it.

[ssterling]

I figured out what the brown spots were. Flatworms. I did a freshwater dip on my elegance and several hours later it looks better than ever. Now that I can see the elegance without these worms I know the elegance came from the LFS with the flatworms. I just didn't know what I was seeing. At first I thought it was a natural freckle pattern to the elegance. When the freckles got bigger then I saw one move I knew something else was up! Still needs to get healthy but I am hopeful. Lowered tank temp to 80 to 81 and the SPS's didn't seem to respond at all so I may try dropping to 78 later if elegance continues to look less than ideal.

[elegance coral]

I hope killing the flat worms will save your coral. It does look a little bleached in the pic. In the right environment they can regain their zooxanthellae so hopefully things will turn around for your coral. During this time it will not be getting the nutrition from its zooxanthellae so you may want to think about dosing vitamins and amino acids. While I don't think it has been proven to benefit corals that have bleached, it seems to have helped the ones I have had.

[capn_hylinur]

After reading this thread a number of times I decided to take the plunge. I have had this elegance for 6 days now. How is it doing?
I have it placed low in the tank--partly shaded from the halides--about 26 inches away.
The one thing that concerns me is that it polyps are not large and extended like the pics in this thread----but they never were in the store.
I fed it last night and it took the food eagerly--small pieces of raw shrimp.




this pic gives a larger view of where it is situated

[capn_hylinur]

---------the mushroom is still angry at me--I trimmed it last weekend when I added the elegance---its gone a week before not opening its polyps cause its been angry.

[elegance coral]

I wouldn't be to concerned about the polyp not being very large right now. That is a frag from a much larger Elegance. If you look at its skeleton you can see on one end or both where it was cut. These corals don't normally grow very wide because of the cramped environment they live in. This can change now that it has more room to expand. Do you know where the Elegance came from? Australia or Indo Pacific.

[capn_hylinur]

Thanks--I was hoping you would answer my post--you are the expert

I think he said it was from indo pacific and was more hardy--but that seems to conflict what I have read in this thread.

Is it placed ok--or should I move it right down on the substrate(only about three or 4 inches) I realize the lighting maxes out at the 18 inch point and I am well below that.

[trojank]

I have an elegance coral in my tank for over a year. When I got it it was about the size of my hand fully open now it is about the size of a football. I have never fed my elegance coral I do feed phyto for my tank one or two times per week. I also feed the four fish I have formula one daily but I feed very little. Do you think if I were to feed my elegance I would see better growth? I would love to see it it larger then it is. my tank is 120g I run 2 175 watt 10k Hamilton MH and 2 65w PC. My elegance is in the bottom of the tank in the sand bed. I have never seen an elegance other then the local ps so it is hard for me to gauge what one should look like after a year. In the pic I posted does it look healthy? It does to me but I could br wrong. The only time my elegance has tried to feed is when I have accidentally touched it with my hand cleaning my tank I have never seen this happen with the phyto or the fish food. So with all that said I wonder should I feed my elegance? http://<a href="http://photobucket.c...tobucket"></a> [url=]

[elegance coral]

Originally posted by capn_hylinur
Thanks--I was hoping you would answer my post--you are the expert

I think he said it was from indo pacific and was more hardy--but that seems to conflict what I have read in this thread.

Is it placed ok--or should I move it right down on the substrate(only about three or 4 inches) I realize the lighting maxes out at the 18 inch point and I am well below that.

I don't know about being "the expert". I'm just someone that really really likes Elegance corals and has been keeping/studying them for a long time.

I think someone is a little confused. Almost all of the Indo Pacific Elegance corals have suffered some damage by the time we get them. The Australian Elegance corals are much healthier when we get them.

Because we are not sure where your Elegance came from, I like where you have it. Part of it is shaded while another is exposed. The coral is large enough for you to keep a close eye on it and see which end fairs best. It is hard to tell from the pic, but it looks as though the tentacles that are more exposed are withdrawn. The tentacles that are shaded look to be more extended and not so curled up. this could be caused by the light, the flow, the GSP's, or just the posture it was in when you took the pic. After observing it in its current position, you can slowly move it so that most of the coral is getting the amount of light that it does best in.

If your Elegance is an Indo Elegance it is a healthy one, in comparison to most. These frags come from shallower water than the cone shaped Elegance from the Indo, so they are not as light sensitive as the cone shaped are. The problem seems to be that they are stored in the same containers with the other Elegance corals as they fall victim to infection. The infection can then spread to the fragged corals. I don't see any signs of the typical symptoms in your pics, so hopefully it is clean.

[elegance coral]

Originally posted by trojank
I have an elegance coral in my tank for over a year. When I got it it was about the size of my hand fully open now it is about the size of a football. I have never fed my elegance coral I do feed phyto for my tank one or two times per week. I also feed the four fish I have formula one daily but I feed very little. Do you think if I were to feed my elegance I would see better growth? I would love to see it it larger then it is. my tank is 120g I run 2 175 watt 10k Hamilton MH and 2 65w PC. My elegance is in the bottom of the tank in the sand bed. I have never seen an elegance other then the local ps so it is hard for me to gauge what one should look like after a year. In the pic I posted does it look healthy? It does to me but I could br wrong. The only time my elegance has tried to feed is when I have accidentally touched it with my hand cleaning my tank I have never seen this happen with the phyto or the fish food. So with all that said I wonder should I feed my elegance?

You have a beautiful Elegance, and yes it is healthy. You do not have to feed your Elegance. It can sustain itself on the nutrition it receives from photosynthesis and the dissolved nutrients from the other feedings you do. However, you do not want your Elegance to sustain itself. You want your Elegance to expand, grow, and become much stronger. For your Elegance to obtain its full potential it should be fed. They are not filter feeders. The small particles that you feed your other inhabitants are not large enough to cause a feeding response from your Elegance. I like to think of them as ambush predators. They hang out with their tentacles waving in the current, looking all innocent. Then some small fish or shrimp makes the mistake of bumping into a tentacle. The Elegance quickly begins to inject its venom into the prey and consumes it. If your Elegance is fed one or two chunks of fish or shrimp every week, Its polyp will begin to grow much larger. Its sting will get so strong that its tentacles will pull off on your skin if you bump into it. It will start laying down calcium at a much faster pace. It will turn into a monster before you know it.

I have one small suggestion. You may want to think about moving the Elegance or the GSP. Elegance corals really don't like GSP. Especially when the GSP gets ticked off and starts discharging toxins. It even looks like your Elegance is withdrawn right next to the GSP. This may just be the camera angle though.

[trojank]

Thanks for the tip I did not know that the two did not get along. I moved the GSP it is just a frag I need to take in to trade. I don't think I want to mess with my elegance I do not want to upset it. What type of fish do you feed your elegance? I will start to feed it this week and post an update as it gets larger. Thanks again for your advice.

[gholtmeyer]

I did not know that GSP are that toxic, thanks for that info. That might explain why my Cali blue tort just bleached out for not apparent reason. It was located just above a patch of GSP. I might have to take them out of the tank.

[elegance coral]

Originally posted by trojank
Thanks for the tip I did not know that the two did not get along. I moved the GSP it is just a frag I need to take in to trade. I don't think I want to mess with my elegance I do not want to upset it. What type of fish do you feed your elegance? I will start to feed it this week and post an update as it gets larger. Thanks again for your advice.

No problem .
I have a local sea food market that carries truly fresh seafood. They don't add preservatives like the grocery stores do in their "fresh" seafood. I buy shrimp from the market or I buy live bait shrimp and keep them in my sump until its time to feed my Elegance corals. I feed mine nothing but meat. I peal the exoskeleton off the shrimp. I rarely feed them fish, like silversides. Anything that Elegance corals are fed that is not digestible will be pooed out later. I don't want my Elegance corals to have to spend the energy to poo these things out, so I don't feed it to them. Silversides have bones and scales that will come out in a nasty blob of poo after digestion. These things don't hurt your elegance, but why make them work any harder than they have to? This poo will also decompose in the tank adding to the biological load. If they are fed nothing but meat there will be very little if any poo.

[Coderabit2]

I fed my elegance for the first time last night. I gave her cube of mysis shrimp. What meaty things could I buy at the LFS as I don't have a fresh seafood market in Utah.

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by Coderabit2
I fed my elegance for the first time last night. I gave her cube of mysis shrimp. What meaty things could I buy at the LFS as I don't have a fresh seafood market in Utah.

my anemonies and the elegance coral like the frozen raw shrimp that you get at the grocery store--but served thawed out---

I hope this is what you meant with the frozen cube of mysis---that you thawed it out first and rinsed it with r/o water--they can contain alot of phosphates from where they were processed

[capn_hylinur]

The rest of my corals etc have been surviving because I have a big refugium growing inverts, zoos etc and supplying the tank at a steady rate.
elegance coral---in this situation would you still have to feed the elegance coral extra?

[elegance coral]

Originally posted by capn_hylinur
elegance coral---in this situation would you still have to feed the elegance coral extra?

This is a matter of opinion. In my opinion they should be fed regardless of the environment they are in. If you compare polyp expansion and the amount of calcium deposited by an Elegance when it is being fed to when it isn't you will notice a huge difference. When an Elegance is fed regularly its polyp will get very thick and expand far from the skeleton. If an Elegance is not fed its polyp will remain thin and calcium depositing will slow. An Elegance corals skeleton is much like the rings in a tree. We can tell the rate of growth and if the coral was damaged or ill in its past by looking at its skeleton. In the cone shaped Elegance corals when growth is slow it will deposit calcium one layer on top of another, but it will not expand side to side very much. This causes a long thin skeleton. As the growth rate increases calcium is deposited much faster and the skeleton will expand to the sides very quick. This causes the skeleton to flair out at the top. We can feed an Elegance for several months, then not feed it for several more months. If the skeleton is examined after this it will show the difference in growth rate.



This is the system that I keep most of my Elegance corals in. It is a 29gl display and a 55gl refuge with a DSB and lots of macro algae. My Elegance corals have outgrown the 29 so some of them had to be moved to a different system. The other system has a small pond as a refuge. I still try to feed my Elegance corals once a week.

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by trojank
I have an elegance coral in my tank for over a year. When I got it it was about the size of my hand fully open now it is about the size of a football. I have never fed my elegance coral I do feed phyto for my tank one or two times per week. I also feed the four fish I have formula one daily but I feed very little. Do you think if I were to feed my elegance I would see better growth? I would love to see it it larger then it is. my tank is 120g I run 2 175 watt 10k Hamilton MH and 2 65w PC. My elegance is in the bottom of the tank in the sand bed. I have never seen an elegance other then the local ps so it is hard for me to gauge what one should look like after a year. In the pic I posted does it look healthy? It does to me but I could br wrong. The only time my elegance has tried to feed is when I have accidentally touched it with my hand cleaning my tank I have never seen this happen with the phyto or the fish food. So with all that said I wonder should I feed my elegance?

I think I have the same species--I hope the polyps develop in size and colour like yours

should add------very little corals eat phyto----corals eat zooplankton--copopods etc. There is probably little in your tank that actually benifts from phyto other then zooplankton themselves. If you are using a product like DT then it becomes pretty expensive.
I raise zooplankton etc in my refugium for the main tank. Once a week I feed them phyto.
If you switch to once or twice a feed using cyclopeeze(the frozen stick) to feed the corals you will notice a difference in the long run.

[MetalReef9]

a very elegant thread indeed

[cristhiam]

Is this reproduction/splitting? Thanks

[josee1013]

Love this tread!


Here's my aussie ellegance, bottom of tank, 20K 400W MH and T5.
I have it for about 1 month now.. it already got bigger...



Does it look healthy?