Build and Progress of my RSM Nano Tank - Page 12

MAXreefer · #**276** 08/29/2007, 11:29 PM

True. All corals need light but they get their food also from the stuff that is in the water current.
It won't hurt if you go down to 9 hours for a while. I have read in several postings that even reducing the lights by 15-20 minutes will help to get rid of algae.

I know from your previous postings you tried out a lot and I can't say mine is the solution but is definitely worth trying it out.

Michael

LaurentSeattle · #**277** 08/29/2007, 11:31 PM

Week 9 - Day 63 - Wednesday August 29th - Around 10pm

Last Minute Update:

- Cleant white pad earlier today

- Cleant the glass...

- I just spotted a very young Astrea snail and two Ceriths babies... These species are not supposed to reproduce in hoobyist tanks (at least according to LiveAquaria.com) therefore I am a bit happy. Feel free to tell me I am wrong

Reefmack · #**278** 08/30/2007, 07:06 AM

Hi Laurent. When I first started with the tank and got my diatom bloom, and a bit of green algae showing up (never had a major green algae outbreak) my lfs recommended cutting the lights to 6 hours, which I did for at least a month. I already had zoas, GSP and mushrooms that came on my live rock, and they did great and even spread with that 6 hours of light over an extended period (and the algae receeded). IMO I wouldn't worry about the photosynthetic corals not getting enough light.

I probably asked this before, but what nitrate test are you using? I once had an issue with a nitrate test giving a zero reading when I knew there should be a sizeable level of them. I found from the test manufacturer that one of the test solution bottles needed to be severely banged on a table top several times and shaken for several minutes to get the material that tended to settle out back into solution. My test result after this went from zero to about 120ppm nitrates! This was a FW test, but I offer the information just in case your zero reading may not really be zero.

michaelaz · #**279** 08/30/2007, 08:13 AM

Just a idea but what about your water, could it possiably be loaded with extra nutrients ? Something is happening that no one else is dealing with IMHO

LaurentSeattle · #**280** 08/30/2007, 08:25 AM

ReefMack: I am using the Red Sea tests that come with the starter kit. The 'A' bottle reagent needs to be 'seriously' shaken, yes...

MichaelAZ: I am using Ro/Di water and my Ro/Di unit is only 10 weeks old.

I am going to reduce the light period down to a bit less than 8 hours as a middleground between the recommended 6 and 9 hours.

Reefmack · #**281** 08/30/2007, 09:11 AM

Good luck Seattle. By the way I still get small patches of that crappy algae once in a while. I just recently had a growth on the rock that has my yellow polyps on it. I pulled it out of the tank and gently used a toothbrush on it without damaging the polyps. If it gets bad and you can pull the rock out with the zoas on it you could do the same. The zoas should close up out of water and they're pretty tough skinned and should be able to handle a gentle scrub with a toothbrush. Better than losing them to being covered over by algae. JMO.

michaelaz · #**282** 08/30/2007, 11:41 AM

Try some bottled water or water from water and ice. I have a RO unit myself and I dont care for the taste,and there shouldnt be any taste at all. I keep 2 5gal jug in back room for top offs and waterchanges

LaurentSeattle · #**283** 08/30/2007, 08:08 PM

Week 10 - Day 64 - Thursday August 30th - Around 6pm

- I followed ReefMack's advice and carefully brushed my zoanthid frags that is getting invaded with algae with a toothbrush. The zoas reopened just five minutes after I put them back in the tank. But I really do not want to do that too often!

- Cleant white pad and skimmer collection cup: plenty of green stinky stuff...

- Tested water:

pH: 8.3
Alk: 2.2mEq/L
NO3: Very close to Zero - Maybe 1ppm

- Since I am now getting consistently good results on the Nitrates front, and still having pest algae outbreaks, I decided to invest $25 into Phosphate removal media and a Phosphate test. I ordered some Phosban and the Red Sea test. I remember having 250 or more ppm of NO3 in the tank. Maybe much more: the test was unable to test that high. They all disappeared in a matter of days when biofiltration finally kicked-in. It is possible that very high level of PO4 are still there and causing these algae blooms. The test will tell next week.

- My Blue Stripped Mushrooms are now expanding a bit more. I will post a picture tomorrow if they continue to work on their looks... So far, Yumas are happy.

MAXreefer · #**284** 08/30/2007, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LaurentSeattle
Week 10 - Day 64 - Thursday August 30th - Around 6pm

- Tested water:

pH: 8.3
Alk: 2.2mEq/L
NO3: Very close to Zero - Maybe 1ppm

If I converted this correct your Alk is pretty low!
2.2mEq/L = 110 ppm or 6.16 DKH

My LFS recommended and what I have read in several postings it should be between 8 and 11DKH.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Michael

LaurentSeattle · #**285** 08/30/2007, 09:39 PM

Michael:
According to this web page http://ozreef.org/library/tables/alk...onversion.html
your calculation is correct and the range 7 to 11 is recommended

However:

- The Red Sea test says "normal" between 1.7 and 2.8. The green that I am getting from the test is right in the middle of the "normal" range.

- If I convert 1.7 and to 2.8 using the same chart, I get 4.7 to 7.8 and that does not match at all the known range for ALK when expressed in dKH...

If there a fourth unit for ALK that Red Sea is using??? They certainly know that 8 dKH is not a high level of ALK.

They also mention that 2.5 mEq/L is the ALK level of natural sea water. That's 7 in the above mentionned chart.

Does anyone here is also using the Red Sea test and help us with these madness of units???

MAXreefer · #**286** 08/30/2007, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LaurentSeattle
Michael:
According to this web page http://ozreef.org/library/tables/alk...onversion.html
your calculation is correct and the range 7 to 11 is recommended

However:

- The Red Sea test says "normal" between 1.7 and 2.8. The green that I am getting from the test is right in the middle of the "normal" range.

- If I convert 1.7 and to 2.8 using the same chart, I get 4.7 to 7.8 and that does not match at all the known range for ALK when expressed in dKH...

If there a fourth unit for ALK that Red Sea is using??? They certainly know that 8 dKH is not a high level of ALK.

They also mention that 2.5 mEq/L is the ALK level of natural sea water. That's 7 in the above mentionned chart.

Does anyone here is also using the Red Sea test and help us with these madness of units???

I have been using the Red Sea tests but switched to Marineland Instant Ocean test. Most of Red Sea tests are quite reliable but IMO not the ALK for sure as the range is way to wide for Normal. In their little manual that comes with the test it even says: If a more accurate test is requires, purchase Alkalinity Pro Test!
At the other end what they call "high" is actually something what most reefers are looking for. Advice from my LFS guy and several articles I have been reading: To keep corals healthy and make them grow ALK and Calcium levels should be kept quite high and stable.

I am sure there are many others here who know way more about this as I do. Just trying to pass on what I know so far.

Michael

Reefmack · #**287** 08/31/2007, 08:11 AM

I had used the Red Sea alk test also and had the same concerns about what they call "normal". I ended up getting a Salifert test, but I can't remember now if I got a higher alk reading with the Salifert or not. I agree - if the Red Sea test is at all accurate, I'm not sure how they got that normal range! I wasn't even aware that Red Sea offered an "Alkalinity Pro" test. I've been adding Kent Tech A & B once or twice a week to help keep my pH, alk and calcium up, as well as replace some of the other nutrients.

I was never happy with the Red Sea pH test either - it can vary from pH 8 to 8.3 depending on what type of light I'm looking in.

Good to hear you got the algae off of the zoas - they are pretty tough - hopefully you won't have to use the toothbrush on them again. So far the algae has shown no sign of growing back on the rock with my yellow polyps on it, and the polyps weren't harmed by using the toothbrush carefully.

Jimbo327 · #**288** 08/31/2007, 12:54 PM

Increase your Alk to near 11. And start using the phosphate media when you get it.

LaurentSeattle · #**289** 08/31/2007, 11:18 PM

Week 10 - Day 65 - Friday August 31st - Around 6pm

But posting quite late at night...

I only fought the battle against algae with the all weapons in my possession... Limited photoperiod, hand removal, meticulous cleaning of mechanical filtration, removing poop and detritus, and a significant water change. (Almost 5 gallons)

Phosphate test and eventual removal is planned for next week...

It seems that the pest algae bloom is slowing a bit, at least things are not getting obviously worse...

Water change + filter cleaning triggered a massive bubble storm - still going on after more than three hours... Sometimes I hate the RSM...

Rue · #**290** 08/31/2007, 11:26 PM

LOL...you don't get to say that! Bite your tongue!

LaurentSeattle · #**291** 09/01/2007, 01:22 PM

Week 10 - Day 66 - Saturday September 1st - Around Noon

I removed all mechanical filters because I am leaving for the weekend. I think it is better to skip mechanical filtration for a little while than have them clogged and starving the circulation pumps. Many RSM owners have completely removed the mechanical filtration stage.

I also reduced lighting to 7 hours for the weekend and turned the heater off.

I will update on Tuesday with possibly interesting data about Phosphate levels.

Thanks for visiting and Happy Labor Day weekend to all.

LaurentSeattle · #**292** 09/04/2007, 07:12 PM

Week 10 - Day 69 - Tuesday September 4th - Around 5pm

Back to Seattle after a nice weekend on the Oregon Coast, I found the tank in almost the same state as when I left... Not a massive algae bloom, but significant green and brown hairy stuff almost everywhere.

My package from Marine Depot was waiting at the door and I immediately tested the Phosphate level. I was expecting something massive but I got a very reasonable 0.2ppm reading. Far from perfect, but not so horrible... So now I wonder why I am getting such an algae outbreak.

I started to cleanup a bit the tank (Algae removal, removed and cleant a few rocks, syphoned out detritus) and ended up with a 3 gallons water change.

I also ordered and now have some PhosBan Media but I wonder if 0.2ppm justifies the use of it. If anyone could provide some advice, that would be great! In the meantime, I am searching these forums...

Rue · #**293** 09/04/2007, 07:16 PM

Sorry...can't help...but I'm glad your tank survived your absence so well! Hope you had a great weekend!

LaurentSeattle · #**294** 09/04/2007, 07:43 PM

In this great article:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

Randy Holmes-Farley recommends 0.03ppm and clearly states it is a critical parameter... Therefore, I will remove the RSM hood later tonight and go ahead with PhosBan.

Also tested water AFTER cleaning and water change:
PO4: 0.15ppm (Somewhere between the two shades of green of 0.1 and 0.2)
NO3: Zero.

LaurentSeattle · #**295** 09/04/2007, 10:36 PM

Week 10 - Day 69 - Tuesday September 4th - Around 8pm

Late nightly update:

- The tank is now running with a small bag of PhosBan between the active carbon and the ceramic balls.
- Cleant the bag of ceramic bio-balls.
- Rinsed the balls (in salt water) and removed a dozen of them.
- Spotted a very small sea star: probably a brittlestar, but had no time to take a picture.
- Spotted a few baby Nassarius snails
- Mushrooms doing great.
- Worrysome: Some zoanthids whitening and still not opening after two weeks.

LaurentSeattle · #**296** 09/04/2007, 11:49 PM

Week 10 - Day 69 - Tuesday September 4th - Around 10pm

VERY late nightly update:

Tested again phosphates... But hey... When you get a new toy, you want to play with it...

The nice surprise is that after just a few hours, PO4 is down to possibly 0.05ppm or maybe less: I am getting a yellow reading that is very close to the zero reference tint provided by the test kit.

If this does not solve the algae problem, what's left to try???

Moadster · #**297** 09/05/2007, 01:23 AM

Just read through your whole thread, and it was so informative!! I am going to be starting up my new setup in less than a month. I had a 85g fish and reef tank that I started in 2004, but I did it without much advice from other reefers and my tank suffered. It's great to see that the problems that I had were mostly just part of the natural life cycle of the live rock. I can't wait to get my new setup started and do it right this time with the help of you RC guys!

LaurentSeattle · #**298** 09/06/2007, 10:33 AM

Week 10 - Day 70 - Wednesday September 5th

Posted Thursday.

Phosphate level is again very close to zero with no difference from Tuesday. I went from 0.2ppm down to approximately 0.05ppm in a few hours and now no progress after more than a day. Is it possible that the phosphate remover is already exhausted?

The algae bloom is now under control and the existing "grass" slowly eaten by the snails. The overall appearance of the tank has improved a bit.

LaurentSeattle · #**299** 09/07/2007, 12:32 AM

Week 11 - Day 71 - Thursday September 6th

- Significant improvement on the algae front. Much less growth and the snails are doing a great job. I helped them tonight with a stinky combo of hand removal, tweezers removal and toothbrush scrubing...

- Cleant mechanical filtration like a maniac and ended up with a mini-water change of about one gallon.

- Skimmer is working overtime and removing a lot of green slimy stinky stuff. I have to empty it every day because of the smell...

- It seems like the PhosBan is doing its job. But... PO4 readings are not zero yet and still showing something like 0.05ppm.

- Since a few days, I am seeing one MONSTER dead pod per day floating in the tank, quickly taken into the filtration system. Their dead bodies look like translucent small shrimps and are about 7 millimeters long (about 1/4 inch), and sometimes even more: possibly one centimeter! Each time, I tried to take a picture, but it was too late: the monster thing was already swallowed into the filters.

- I have not seen two peppermint shrimps at the same time since quite a while. I have to assume that one is lost. This is my second major loss after an Astrea snail. It makes me feel a bit sad. And I do need to improve overall conditions before I try to add more livestock in the tank.

- Stomatella, Sea Star and bristle worm hitchhikers all spotted recently and apparently doing well.

- I have not yet provided any kind of food to the tank, except some phytoplankton only two times... And now I wonder if my feather duster and my last survivor shrimp are starving... How could I tell? Please help.

- I wonder if I am still "paying back the debt" of not have cured my LR properly during the initial setup...

- Thanks all for visiting: We are now well above 10K views on thread... Please do not hesitate to post: This is my first reef tank and your advice is very much appreciated.

- Moadster: Thanks! You're right: RC is a great ressource. I would have probably give up without support and advice from all RC members.

Reefmack · #**300** 09/07/2007, 08:11 AM

Hi Laurent. No idea on how to tell if the phosphate remover is exhausted or not. Good to hear at least one RSM skimmer works great! If you find one of those monster pods on your mechanical filter next time you clean it maybe you could take a picture of it then. A centimeter is indeed a big pod. I'm not sure if something like an amphipod gets that big?

On the peppermints, I have one I can always find during the day - it hangs out in the same spot every day, and at night goes out and searches food. I added 2 more not long ago - both smaller and one was very small. I haven't seen any of the new ones since adding them, and I've looked at night & no sign of any but my largest one. I have a feeling my big shrimp goby may have eaten them due to their smaller size. Not the first time I've added more peppermints and never seen any but one. I suppose they could be hiding, but I'm doubtful of that.

I've had 2 of the big feather dusters and lost both of them. I'm not sure if they get bothered to death by the fish. I think the last one was too close to my Eyphyllia and may have been killed off by getting stung by it. I've read that they should be fed at the bottom of the fan, rather than putting food over the top - the post (right or wrong) said that the fan creates an upward water flow to get nutrients. As you're often cleaning algae I would think that your featherduster is getting its food by filtering things out of what you stir up in the tank.