280G+ Starphire In-Wall Build by ReefArtist - Page 10

ReefArtist · #**226** 10/18/2007, 10:19 AM

I'm having a space problem with my pumps so I'm seeking some advice. Below I've posted some photo (worth a thousand words) of my space problem. I have two barracuda pumps for my return but my concern is the space between the sump and the frame of my refugium.

Does anyone have the dimension of a True Single Union Ball Valves? I'm going to purchase them from Savko and I'm not sure if the dimensions are the same as HD.

This is where I'm think of putting the Skimmer. I know it's high but I can reach the cup to clean it and it's out of the way. Will it function being that high? It's going to be feed off a tee from one of the Barracudas that will be located below it.

Here is a measurement - from the sumps frame to the pump - very tight, but will it fit?

It's about 5-3/4 from the frame but I could give it another half inch or so with the sump moved down as far as possible.

ReefArtist · #**227** 10/18/2007, 11:24 PM

Well I'm thinking it's going to fit so this week end I'm going to start drill all the tanks. This is the placement I had from the start and even though it makes it a little tight at one end, it give me table space at the other end.

SVTour · #**228** 10/19/2007, 07:07 AM

It's hard to say if it will fit...all you can do is try. Hopefully you will be able to fit a union on there for service on the pump.

BTW, that small viewing tank looks like it will be pretty sweet!

ReefArtist · #**229** 10/19/2007, 09:24 AM

Hi Joey,
Thanks for you comments. The small tank I'm thinking a nice Grasses tank, below that (Haven't moved it in yet) will be a 75g refugium. It will be really nice to see in my refugium and put some cool critters that I can't have in my main display.

Yes I will definitely have a union, I'd like to put a true single union ball valve if it will fit. It's just I need to mail order them and I wanted to get all my tanks drilled this weekend.

Now that I really think about it, I really don't need a ball valve if at the sump I can cap it off when I have an emergency. Mmmm, I was going with 2" single union ball valves before the pump and after the pump - I would still need the one after and at 28$ each, now I'm not sure if it is really necessary. You should never restrict the inlet so the only time I would use the ball value would be for maintenance or emergency. I could just use a threaded cap with a nipple and insert that into my bulkhead. What are the toughts on something like that?

SVTour · #**230** 10/19/2007, 11:20 AM

So you would put the threaded cap on whenever you need to do maintenance on the pump?

Wouldn't be the easiest way to go about it...but I guess it would work if you're really that tight on space. You might be the pioneer on this one

ReefArtist · #**231** 10/19/2007, 12:26 PM

Maybe I'm missing something but - this is my step through:

Well, the pump would be off and I would have a ball valve with union on the output side. I'd unplug the pump, turn the ball on the output side to stop the back flow, then insert the nipple/cap or a threaded plug. Using the unions - remove the pump. I don't see anything wrong with that and this way I couldn't reduce the flow on the input even if I wanted - which would be good.

We'll see if we hear from anyone else on this but I really don't see a problem - except me looking like a cheapo

and I'll take that.

tbone28 · #**232** 10/19/2007, 12:38 PM

I, too, had space issues. Although I didn't want to, I ended up plumbing my return pump with a 90.

Try to go with slip connectors if you can. That'll save you some room as well.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

ReefArtist · #**233** 10/19/2007, 12:56 PM

I could do the 90 - that is another option. Did you think about doing the cap/plug at all. I know it's kind of "Not" standard plumbing. I actually would get better flow - no ball valve to slow the water.

BTW - What is the usage of the double union ball valve? I've seen it but for the life of me have not figured when it would be used. Is it to clean the ball valve (I know they do get clogged)? I could see if you had water coming from both directions without the pump between - another plumbing part to investigate.

Again - thank you for your input - I like looking at all angles for a solution.

tbone28 · #**234** 10/19/2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ReefArtist
I could do the 90 - that is another option. Did you think about doing the cap/plug at all. I know it's kind of "Not" standard plumbing. I actually would get better flow - no ball valve to slow the water.

BTW - What is the usage of the double union ball valve? I've seen it but for the life of me have not figured when it would be used. Is it to clean the ball valve (I know they do get clogged)? I could see if you had water coming from both directions without the pump between - another plumbing part to investigate.

Again - thank you for your input - I like looking at all angles for a solution.

Didn't think about the plug, but too much work for me. I wasn't concerned about minimizing the flow as it's just a sump return for me. The double valve lets me service whichever is needed - the pump or the plumbing on either side of the valve.

mflamb · #**235** 10/19/2007, 06:20 PM

Carol, I plumbed my sump return with a 90 and both of my skimmer pumps recieve water from the sump through 90s.

ReefArtist · #**236** 10/19/2007, 06:25 PM

Mike - you sure did, I might need to go over to your house and draw everything up for ya (Poster) - Then I'd know everything about plumbing

.

mflamb · #**237** 10/19/2007, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ReefArtist
Mike - you sure did, I might need to go over to your house and draw everything up for ya (Poster) - Then I'd know everything about plumbing .

That last part is funny. If you had watched me plumb, you would sell the video to the comedy channel!!!

ReefArtist · #**238** 10/20/2007, 06:03 AM

I couldn't imagine getting in the back of your tank

I do know you have some wall space between - but still!

Hey, I noticed you don't have ball valves on any of your pumps! I know you have the values above but - that's going to be a lot of water coming out when undue the unions

. I'm sure you've wooked that out but this is exactly what I was wondering about. Now you can just plug them

. They also have a tool called an expension plug - it's hard rubber with a wing nut - fits lots of different size pipes - that is also an option that I'm looking at. I'm sure the wing nut isn't SS so unless I can find on that is I'll stay away from that.

ReefArtist · #**239** 10/21/2007, 06:12 AM

Today I'm going to get a few fittings and see which configuration will fit the best. Also I hope to get some of my tanks drilled. My sump which is a 90g tank is home for my freshwater guys - Their new home will cycle this week. I so hope to get it emptied next weekend. Then all the plumbing can be added.

I did find this interesting when doing my research - "While this fitting has a union, it is not designed to seal/hold water when the union is removed. The union is primarily for maintenance of the ball valve. This is a statement from Spears about their Single Union Ball Valve - thought that was very interesting. I guess they're covering their bases (assssss)!

mflamb · #**240** 10/21/2007, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ReefArtist
I couldn't imagine getting in the back of your tank I do know you have some wall space between - but still!

Hey, I noticed you don't have ball valves on any of your pumps! I know you have the values above but - that's going to be a lot of water coming out when undue the unions . I'm sure you've wooked that out but this is exactly what I was wondering about. Now you can just plug them . They also have a tool called an expension plug - it's hard rubber with a wing nut - fits lots of different size pipes - that is also an option that I'm looking at. I'm sure the wing nut isn't SS so unless I can find on that is I'll stay away from that.

The two closed loop Darts have ball valves on the back of the tank. When I remove those pumps, I disconnect the union from the valve and lower the flex hose into a small bucket. Then I disconnect the union where the closed loop returns to the tank under the box. No water loss and it takes about 2 minutes to get the pump out. To remove the sump return pump, I screw a plug into the bulkhead inside the sump, disconnnect the flex hose from the tank under the middle box, drain that hose into a small tupperware container, place a towel under the pump and remove it. A little more than a cup of water comes out of the pump. Same technique for the two skimmer pumps. When I was freshwater testing, I removed each of these individually with the tank and sump full to verify their serviceability. There is 15 inches between the stand and the wall. All the pumps are in the stand behind the sump.
Definitely not as good as having a fish room, but it makes things serviceable.

ReefArtist · #**241** 10/21/2007, 12:37 PM

I knew you would have it all figured out Mike, but just needed to hear it from you. So, I'm not to far off base with using the plug then. I went to Lowe's today looking for true unions the only type they had local to me was the real cheap brand - not heavy duty at all. I then when to my local Home Depot looking for the same part - the kid in the plumbing department didn't know what a true union was - go figure. I looked around and it appears they don't carry any union/ball valve combinations. Sounds like mail order or driving around looking.

mflamb · #**242** 10/21/2007, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ReefArtist
I knew you would have it all figured out Mike, but just needed to hear it from you. So, I'm not to far off base with using the plug then. I went to Lowe's today looking for true unions the only type they had local to me was the real cheap brand - not heavy duty at all. I then when to my local Home Depot looking for the same part - the kid in the plumbing department didn't know what a true union was - go figure. I looked around and it appears they don't carry any union/ball valve combinations. Sounds like mail order or driving around looking.

I bought all the "nonstandard" plumbing parts from Savko and Aquatic Eco Systems.
How are you feeling???

ReefArtist · #**243** 10/21/2007, 09:08 PM

Mike - thanks for the Savko link, I made note of it when you were doing your plumbing. I have a big order for them now but haven't had the nerve to actual send it - $$$.

Oh- I'm doing OK. I'd like to really get things moving but - I'm not supposed to lift anything for a month - right!!! It'll get done some time. I did get my freshwater tank setup, once that is cycled I can move my old freshwater guys into their new home. I have some big monsters in that tank right now - I know they're alive (I can see them under their rock) but I haven't really seen them in months. I let them do their thing which is hunting at night.

Hey - I "herd" things over on TBRC is getting hot again, I think I'll just stay over here for a while

.

SVTour · #**244** 10/22/2007, 07:25 AM

Wow, I'm kind of surprised that HD didn't have what you needed. I think my whole setup is from Lowe's and HD...

Oh well, it will probably be cheaper on line anyway. You might want to get a couple extra items...you know, for when you screw up putting it together (wait, that was me).

ReefArtist · #**245** 10/22/2007, 07:51 PM

Hey - we reefers don't make plumbing mistakes - just new ways of doing the plumbing

- right - HAHA. Oh, we'll see what surprises I can bring to the party - of course "you tell me yours I tell you mine" will be strickly enforced.

OK - I guess I need to get my order in - thanks Joey for the heads up on the ordering - I think I will order one extra of everything I can't get local (I'm confident

).

SVTour · #**246** 10/22/2007, 08:11 PM

I had dry fit everything...thought I had it down and started gluing...only to find I flipped the object around in my hand from the dry fit.

In the end I only lost a union, a ball valve and a couple elbows, but I'm sure others here lost more

ReefArtist · #**247** 10/23/2007, 07:48 AM

That’s a good one Joey – LOL. I could just imagine your face looking at your work trying to see how you put it together.

I have an old one with my 75g and it’s the first time I ever had a reef ready tank. I made sure my stand was nice and sturdy with two layers of ¾” plywood – that in itself is a good one – LOL.

Will I figured it would be better to put the bulkheads on first before I put the tank on the stand. I drilled the holes in the stand making sure it fit right in and the distance between them was perfect – it was. I placed the tank with the bulkheads in place fit was perfect and proceeded to finish the plumbing. Put the sand in filled it with water got the pumps running – looked great until I noticed a little drop of water coming from the bulkhead – MMMMMMmmmmm how can I re-seat that bulkhead with it being behind drawers – removed all the drawers only to find I made it so tight I couldn’t fit a tool on the bulkhead. So – I then spend the next 4 to 5 hours using a Foredom cutting out the wood all around the bulkheads and a big hole on the side of the stand – that was my new introduction to reef keeping! Not sure if it’s been uphill from that or down – there’s always a nice surprise around the corner. Hey – I didn’t have to purchase new plumbing parts

.

SVTour · #**248** 10/24/2007, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ReefArtist
That’s a good one Joey – LOL. I could just imagine your face looking at your work trying to see how you put it together.

I have an old one with my 75g and it’s the first time I ever had a reef ready tank. I made sure my stand was nice and sturdy with two layers of ¾” plywood – that in itself is a good one – LOL.

Will I figured it would be better to put the bulkheads on first before I put the tank on the stand. I drilled the holes in the stand making sure it fit right in and the distance between them was perfect – it was. I placed the tank with the bulkheads in place fit was perfect and proceeded to finish the plumbing. Put the sand in filled it with water got the pumps running – looked great until I noticed a little drop of water coming from the bulkhead – MMMMMMmmmmm how can I re-seat that bulkhead with it being behind drawers – removed all the drawers only to find I made it so tight I couldn’t fit a tool on the bulkhead. So – I then spend the next 4 to 5 hours using a Foredom cutting out the wood all around the bulkheads and a big hole on the side of the stand – that was my new introduction to reef keeping! Not sure if it’s been uphill from that or down – there’s always a nice surprise around the corner. Hey – I didn’t have to purchase new plumbing parts .

Yeah, I keep the part I screwed up on the window seal...just to keep myself in check when I get over confident.

I'd hate if one of my 'out of the location' bulkheads leaked. I'm having enough issues with the one coming off the sump, as it's been leaking since I cleaned the pump this past weekend.

cannarella · #**249** 10/26/2007, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ReefArtist
I'm having a space problem with my pumps so I'm seeking some advice. Below I've posted some photo (worth a thousand words) of my space problem. I have two barracuda pumps for my return but my concern is the space between the sump and the frame of my refugium.

Does anyone have the dimension of a True Single Union Ball Valves? I'm going to purchase them from Savko and I'm not sure if the dimensions are the same as HD.

This is where I'm think of putting the Skimmer. I know it's high but I can reach the cup to clean it and it's out of the way. Will it function being that high? It's going to be feed off a tee from one of the Barracudas that will be located below it.

Here is a measurement - from the sumps frame to the pump - very tight, but will it fit?

It's about 5-3/4 from the frame but I could give it another half inch or so with the sump moved down as far as possible.

I am reading on how you are trying to figure out your pump locations but don't know where they are going in relation to the structure. Can you circle the location and the orientation that you are dealing with?

Have you considered mounting them vertically with the pump housing on the bottom and cooling fan on top? That would give you more room and keep the wet side down. Just bolt them to a 3/4" piece of plywood attached to that stand. That would actuall look pretty neat.

ReefArtist · #**250** 10/26/2007, 01:49 PM

Here's a little quick drawing to show my layout. I went with the 90 degree after looking at it and see how others had worked around the same problem. I was concerned about the 90 degree right as it was leaving the sump - I guess we do it all the time. What I decided to do is build a small cover over them - I can then use it as a step to make getting to the skimmer much easier. Making a bad thing in to a good - as always

.

This of course is looking down on the fish room.