My DIY Bubble Pump / Needle Wheel Cheep - Easy - and Kicks Bums!

Roland Jacques · #1 08/24/2006, 11:35 PM

This ( I don’t know what to call it. Bubble Pump) continunes to amaze me, so I thought I ought to share it with you guys. I hope you like it. It’s like me, cheep and easy.

I took the stock pump from my Octopus skimmer OTP3000 and did some moding to it. The pump went form 14 scfh to 18-19 scfh. The bad thing was that with each increase in air flow, water flow increased also. At 19 scfh my water flow was over 650 GPH. So turbulence was going up... I did as much as I could to the pump to improve the air flow that I could without getting into some major epoxy work. All that was left was the impeller.

So here it gets good. I cut the gutter guard into 4 circles about the same size as the paddle wheel that it came with. I removed one of the 2 paddle wheels. I stacked all 4 and attached the 4 gutter guard wheels with 3 small zip-ties to the 1 remaining paddle wheels. Then I tested into good I need to up grade a few things. After I change the flow-meters fittings, hose, venture... to all bigger sizes I tested it again. WOW 30 scfh. I think it was still limited by the venture i.e.; I think it can pull even more, maybe allot more.

I don't think I have come close to finding it limits yet. Maybe you guys can help in this area. It is simply plastic gutter guard it can be cut with scissors in a bunch of different shapes, and stacked in a bunch of different configurations, i.e., small one, big one...... or smaller diameter verse larger diameter....

I put this pump on the skimmer and tested it again. Even with the small id plumbing (5/8" in spots) it was pulling 24-25 SCFH. To put icing on the cake the water movement was over 30% less than before. MORE AIR, LESS WATER, HORAY BUBBLES!

The water flow is under 400 gph. If I restrict the water intake the air flow goes down, but it does not go down at the same ratio with the water. I don’t no the numbers yet but they seem very good. i.e.; if restrict the water uptake to say 200 gph it still pulls 20scfh I (I have not test this but it just seems that way.). That part just to points out the venture can use some tailoring. If I just play with the venture I could get it up to 40 (maybe) and we can still play with the gutter guard also.

Cool thing is anybody can do this. I think you can even put this in a dart pump or a tiny might application. So for those of us who don’t have skills, or have a CNC (we all can’t be Spazz, but we can be encouraged buy his work). We now don’t have any excuse why we cant DIY our own Bubble pumps.

My $60 OTP3000 and my $4 roll of gutter guard are ready to take on that E 1260 any day. BRING IT ON!

removed 1 of the two paddle wheels (not an easy job)

not the same pump better pump for the photo OTP2000

I stacked all 4 and attached the 4 gutter guard wheels with 3 small zip-ties to the 1 remaining paddle wheels.

kentrob11 · #2 08/24/2006, 11:39 PM

Sweet! Do you have pics/specs on the venturi itself and how it is plumbed? Also, was the pump louder afterwards? Are you using a ball valve on the intake?

Roland Jacques · #3 08/24/2006, 11:51 PM

No noise at all.
No on the ball valve yet.
I really need a better suited venture right now. I think the ID of the air hole in my venture need to be bigger so it can pull more air. Im sure it can pull more. im just amazed right now.

kentrob11 · #4 08/24/2006, 11:52 PM

Nice! What's the conversion between SCFH and LPH again?

Roland Jacques · #5 08/24/2006, 11:55 PM

30 scfh = about 15LPM x 60= 900 lph

kentrob11 · #6 08/24/2006, 11:57 PM

Cool- I wonder if doing the same gutter material mod to my 4100 would make a difference...Ya think? It looks like you got a great increase in perfomance just based on that!

Roland Jacques · #7 08/25/2006, 12:00 AM

it ALL about that gutter matterial

kentrob11 · #8 08/25/2006, 12:03 AM

Sweet! I wonder if alternating gutter screen and the stock needlewheels would work well? Just a thought. It looks like I'll be picking up some gutter material tomorrow :-P So how are you restricting the flow? Washers?

Roland Jacques · #9 08/25/2006, 12:08 AM

that the other cool think im not yet. it just the way it working. its just not pulling as much water.

when i put my finger over the intake it barely drops until i cover 1/3 of the hole. thats kind of why i think it can pull a lot more air than this even.

kentrob11 · #10 08/25/2006, 12:09 AM

That reminds me- The OTP3000 has a larger diameter needlewheel than the 4100 right? You wouldn't by any chance be willing to send me the spare needlewheel component you took out to test with would you? That is, If you aren't going to use it again!

Roland Jacques · #11 08/25/2006, 12:15 AM

The gen-x 4100 has less room in the housing than this OTP3000 (OR 3500 clone) does. You may only fit 2 or 3 layers on the paddle wheel. but that may even work better, dont know. It is easier to get the wheel off on the Gen -x thats for sure. let me no how it works.

Roland Jacques · #12 08/25/2006, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kentrob11
That reminds me- The OTP3000 has a larger diameter needlewheel than the 4100 right? You wouldn't by any chance be willing to send me the spare needlewheel component you took out to test with would you? That is, If you aren't going to use it again!

It wont fit nether the shaft or the housing.
But here is the deal bigger is not necessarily better.

Roland Jacques · #13 08/25/2006, 01:00 AM

Kentrob. One more thing. One of the many things I don’t get.

The OTP 3000 has a double ended male nipple that thread into the output of the pump. The ID of that nipple is about 11/16". if I remove that nipple the output opening would now be 13/16" (a good bit bigger. well guess what, the pump wont start up then. if I put my thumb over the hole it starts. when I take my thumb off it runs very poorly. for some reason it likes the resistance go figure that one out. VIVA LA RESISTANCE!

Cuby2k · #14 08/25/2006, 01:02 AM

Roland, the thread title; " . . . . kicks BUMS"? I had to look after seeing that.

Very nice work by the way, I appreciate your sharing it.

Have you been able to measure the water flow for comparison?

Roland Jacques · #15 08/25/2006, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cuby2k
Roland, the thread title; " . . . . kicks BUMS"? I had to look after seeing that.

Very nice work by the way, I appreciate your sharing it.

Have you been able to measure the water flow for comparison?

Yeah, it PG Roland nowadays, I only tested the water flow when the pump was on the skimmer.
With the stock impeller
At 9 SCFH = 250 gph (the skimmer out of the box)
At 18 SCFH I was pumping 500 gph
At 21 scfh I was pumping over 650 gph (that was a different impeller mod)
At 25 scfh just under 400Gph (my gutter guard mod)

Cuby2k · #16 08/25/2006, 01:50 AM

Ok, that seems realistic and worthwhile. Great documentation BTW.

RichConley · #17 08/25/2006, 08:49 AM

Hey Roland, this is going to be a busy weekend for me(big charity softball tourney), but I'll try to hack mine up at some point for yah.

Roland Jacques · #18 08/25/2006, 09:19 AM

Yeah, Rich thats great, the more people playing with this (I dont know what to call it), the better.
How about "Gutter wheel" it just dose not sound right.
Maybe "Getto wheel",

I like it .

Spazz sugested i check the Watts. im going to try and test the watts this weekend, with my old analog ampmeter

RichConley · #19 08/25/2006, 09:36 AM

Honestly Roland, I dont think watts is goign to be an issue. If you're putting 25+ scfh through it, and only 400gph or so, I doubt its even pulling the 65 its labeled at.

kentrob11 · #20 08/25/2006, 06:44 PM

I put one together with three layers instead of 4 on my 4100 and it was definately spewing more white out of the outlet end :-P It looks like it's pulling about 700lph but I really think my Venturi sucks. I know it makes some difference but would it make that much if I "venturi-ized" the actual untake of the pump to get the air inlet as close to the impeller as possible? I want to get the most out of this Gutter Wheel thingy as possible cuz it deffinately looks promissing!

kentrob11 · #21 08/25/2006, 08:31 PM

Roland you're a frikin genius! I redid the impeller with 4 layers and then redid the venturi so that it was 1/2" away from the intake of the pump and now I am getting a steady 900-1000 LPH! On top of that, there does appear to be less turbulence inside the tube. The weird thing is, the pump isn't even close to cavitating. I'm going to play with the venturi a little and see if I can juice another 100lph or so......Man this is nice after fiddling with the venturis for 2 days without the results I was looking for

Ereefic · #22 08/25/2006, 08:41 PM

kentrob, how hard was it to get the needlewheels apart?

dandy7200 · #23 08/25/2006, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ereefic
kentrob, how hard was it to get the needlewheels apart?

Second.

kentrob11 · #24 08/25/2006, 09:19 PM

Easy- use a knife tip and wedge it up and it comes right off.

I just tried restricting the water flow just a little bit by pushing the acrylic tube cut at an angle a little further into the intake pipe and it pulled a little more. The afore mentioned 900-1000 was at 24" of head- At 12" I was getting 20lpm or 1200 lph....I'm amazed at what this idea of Roland's is doing to my pumps. The bubbles are nice and small too....I don't think we'd have the same problems that the eheims with the wirewheel are having with getting clogged either cuz the spaces in-between on these are wide enough that I can't see anything getting caught in them....

jewtball · #25 08/25/2006, 10:16 PM

wow thanks, that helped alot and it looks like it should really work.