Frustrated with AWT - don't trust results

[daven]

Okay, I cycled my 180 and have snail in fuge with Calupera and Chaeto. Snails in display with a Ric and a yellow watchman. Things test out fine with my test kits (mix of salifert and API). Thought I'd bring internal peace with an awt (http://aquariumwatertesting.com) test.

Got the results back but I don't know if I can trust them based on what I observe and what I read here. My problems stems from:

Copper: .06 mg/L (acceptable range 0-.05 mg/L)
Calcium: 325 mg/L (acceptable range 350-450 mg/L)
Silica: 1.2mg/L (acceptable range 0-.5 mg/L)

So I ran out and got an API Copper test kit. Tested three times. Results 0. According to their writeup anything over .05 mg/L is fatal to almost all inverts). So I opened the fuge and asked the snails. THey seemed fine.

Then I tested Calcium. Did it three times. 400 mg/L

I have no way to test silica but while I do have the natural diatom bloom on the sand and rock it is pretty light.

So, which should we trust more. API/Salifert tests that we run at home or AWT?

By the way, I put Cuprisorb in my reactor to take out the copper, even though I don't believe there is .06mg/L.

Don't know what to do about dosing Calcium since my tests say its okay.

What to do? What to do?

[USC-fan]

where did the tank come from? Is it new? Are you using IO salt?

I know one of the calcium test kits also tests about 50ppm high, maybe that is what kit you are using. I will try to find the thread about it.

oh here is that thread.
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=640223

I not sure how much things have change since this was posted but just something to think about.....

[rigleautomotive]

i think there equiptment is a heck of alot better then hobbiests kits.i read they use some pretty sofistacated monitors to do there measurements.given the amount of error allowed i would say you may have some residual copper in the system.calcium could have changed from when you took the sample and now when you test so i would say that is probably accurate.and silica is in the tap water so if the membrane is not getting it all and the di is getting old that can explain the silica.if all your animals look healthy i would continue doing what ever you have been doing to maintain cal and alk.do check your rodi to make sure it is working properly with a tds meter

[daven]

THe tank is/was a new AGA 180. Using an inline TDS as well as a handl held TDS. Both test 0 on the Ro/DI water. The salt is Tropic Marin.

[Boomer]

Daven

I brought this Copper issue up the other day here about AWT copper levels. I stated in so many words that IMHO 4 of their NSW parameters are no where near NSW. It looks like they keep missing the value by a decimal. Cooper in NSW is .0001 - .0025 mg / l and not 0-.05 mg/L. All salts that have been tested, freshly made in past years or in tanks show ND, meaning Not Detectable or ~ 1/2 that of NSW. So, to me your copper is not .06 but .006. Your copper may raise to higher levels but I don't see .06 at all.

And silica in NSW is nowhere near 0-.5 mg/L, accept in a limited few spots, usually during a Diatom bloom. The std level for NSW is 2.5 -3 ppm

rigleautomotive

i think there equiptment is a heck of alot better then hobbiests kits.i read they use some pretty sofistacated monitors to do there measurements

Yes, but you need to know what you are doing with them. Seawater is not FW which is what all these are designed for. Special test procedures are required for seawater in many tests.

These guys show everybody with high silica, according to them.

[rigleautomotive]

very true with incompedence statement.human error is more likely than the equiptment there using.and good point with the equiptment being designed for fw,i did not know that .i do think in general that calibrated monitors are more accurate than most test kits hobbiests use,and that is the point i was trying to make.

[HowardW]

I was also surprised with a couple of the results I received from the AWT service on the sample I sent in, hopefully they get things straightened out.

[USC-fan]

Originally posted by daven
THe tank is/was a new AGA 180. Using an inline TDS as well as a handl held TDS. Both test 0 on the Ro/DI water. The salt is Tropic Marin.

How about the rest of the tanks[fuge, mixing bucket. sump]? At least if you did have copper in the tank its now gone.

Silica will not show up on the TDS meters BTW.

[Boomer]

Sure it will, it is only non-reactive colloidal silica that does not show up, as it has no real charge. Reactive silica does.

[B.C.theReefer]

I would have to say trust your tests. It sounds like you've used more than one brand and done multiple tests with each. I use the API reef kit and have never had any problems with the results. Good luck!

[USC-fan]

Originally posted by Boomer
Sure it will, it is only non-reactive colloidal silica that does not show up, as it has no real charge. Reactive silica does.

i was told by the guys at SpectraPure:

"silica is weakly ionized and not easily removed by this type of resin or detected by a typical TDS meter."

This is were i was getting that from.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...5&pagenumber=1

[daven]

The sump, fuge (both acrylic) are new. THe RODI bucket and mixing bucket are the standard 44g brute. The hose used to fill was a new garden hose with the ends clipped off and plastic ends put on. I have been very careful not to even wave coper near my tanks.

I have checked the RODI water, new salt mix, sump and fuge and all show 0 on the API copper test.

I read the long thread about calcium tests. It appears after the whole thing that the Salifert Calcium test is accurate enough. I'll run another test being very very careful about drops, end points, etc.

My point in all this is to determine if the home tests we do are good enough. I suspect they are because most everyone here uses them to some measure of success.

[rigleautomotive]

i think watching your animals daily and observing any negative changes in there health along with testing is important.i have seen tanks with perfect water chemistry look like crap,so do not get too hung up on the perfect parameters.they dont always make a healthy tank.there is plenty we can not test for that are harmful and toxic.the old school of thought with water changes instead of trying to alter water chemistry is making a big come back.sorry i am rambling

[USC-fan]

Originally posted by daven
The sump, fuge (both acrylic) are new. THe RODI bucket and mixing bucket are the standard 44g brute. The hose used to fill was a new garden hose with the ends clipped off and plastic ends put on. I have been very careful not to even wave coper near my tanks.

I have checked the RODI water, new salt mix, sump and fuge and all show 0 on the API copper test.

I read the long thread about calcium tests. It appears after the whole thing that the Salifert Calcium test is accurate enough. I'll run another test being very very careful about drops, end points, etc.

My point in all this is to determine if the home tests we do are good enough. I suspect they are because most everyone here uses them to some measure of success.

Doesn't salifert kit come with a Calcium standard?

That would let you know if your kit was off.

[daven]

Salifert does not come with a Calcium reference.

[Boomer]

The new Pro series is suppose to

[USC-fan]

Boomer- i'm still lost on this TDS issue.....Some silica can't and can be detected by a TDS meter?

Do they make a GOOD silica test kit that can test both FW and SW?

[DrBegalke]

Just like in medicine, trust the patient/reef, not the lab test.

[bertoni]

The SpectraPure people are inconsistent about whether silica will be detected. Maybe I can try an experiment with some sodium silicate at some point.

[Boomer]

USC, did you read what I wrote on that thread, it is all explained in detail on R/DI's ? Here is more to read

Silica in a Reef Tank
http://advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2003/feature.htm


Some silica can't and can be detected by a TDS meter?

And they are selling what ???

And some is; can detect Reactive silica and can not detect Non-reactive colloidal silica. Think of the latter as very, very very, fine sand.

A TDS meter can not detect any ion in any water. If you have say a single substance, say like kalk and you know how much you are adding in molar values, you can mathmatically calculate what conductivity it will be. The conductiivty / TDS is a function of the water to conduct electricity. Any ion that has a charge be it weak or strong will conduct electricity. Weaker ions just conduct less.

With all that said if your TDS meter says 1 ppm on the RO or even the DI you have no clue what it is. If there is any silica getting through you have to test the RO/DI with a really good kit to determine if the TDS or even if it shows zero TDS, if you are suspect of any silica in the water.

I'll say it again silica in NSW is 3 ppm but WE are better off to have it less than 1 ppm.

Test kits

A Chemetrics CHEMet, Silica 0-1 and 0 -10 ppm, is the best due to its low range and non- outrages price. Most silica kits only go to 1 ppm.

Got money

Then a something like a Lovibond or Orbeco - Hellige, test kit, with a a Nessler Tube Comparator attachment or a Spectrophotometer like HACH or LaMotte. These kinds of units can test to the 0.0? range.

[USC-fan]

Thanks for clearly that up. I did read what you wrote in the other thread but it was over my head... lol.

I will try to find this silica test kit.

Thanks

[reefkoi]

Originally posted by DrBegalke
Just like in medicine, trust the patient/reef, not the lab test.

I like this answer the best...............

C

[Lil' Reefette]

I have the API copper test kit and have always had 0 results. I have been dropping the recommended dosage of seacure copper treatment into my quarentine tank (1 drop/gal) first time, then after 12 hours, 1 drop every 2 gal. Tested it before and had 0 color change, tested it after first dosage and color read 0, then after the 2nd dosage tested it again and it had a 0 rating again! Is this test bad or wrong or just plain old and expired??? The minimum color change should be a very light yellow. My test vile stayed completely clear? Any ideas?

[daven]

I took my kit to the LFS and he tested my water with an Instant Ocean copper kit. It showed copper but at the lowest level of .25. Remember in my first post the copper was .06. Then I added a drop of copper from one of his open copper bottles (don't know brand) and tested it using my API. It showed copper.

From this I conclude that I do have a low level of copper in my tank. Also that my API kit will show copper but doesn't show it at the level that my tank has.

So, I added a poly filter (which will remove copper and turn a color to indicate that) and Cuprisorb to remove the copper.

Since the Cupris renawable I will keep renewing it keep it in the sump.

[Boomer]

There can be issues with the IO kit reading about as you got if reagent is old. Test some fresh new salt and some and see if you get the same reading.

Did the poly turn blue, a + for copper. ?