cycling/tank temp/stocking questions

miketapout · #1 04/14/2005, 09:39 PM

im in my 3 1/2 weeks of cycling.. with a FOWLR
params nitirite 0
ammonia 0
nitrate 0-5

im abouth 2weeks or so
ill be adding my first clean up crew...
my first inhabitants would be 2 clearner shrimps
or a couple of snails still deciding

and after 2 weeks +
ill be stocking my fishes slowly
2 clown fish
and 2 benggai cardinals..

am i overstocked?
or can i add another centerpiece fish?

and i have a huge problem

my tank temp reads to about
30 degree celsius
or 85 fareinheit
is that to hot for my tank?
would any livestock survive with that kind of water temP???

jdieck · #2 04/14/2005, 09:46 PM

It is difficult to know if you will be overstocking without knowing the size of your tank.
In general I would prefer to introduce the cleaning crew (basically snails) after you have not detected Ammonia or Nitrite for at least two consecutive weeks. Then wait about a month to give a chance for the microfauna to start reproducing before you introduce predators like fish or cleaner shrimps.

You need to find out why is your temperature at that level. That is on the high side. Ideally you want to keep it around 79 to 81 degrees range.
You may need better ventilation for your lamps or need to add fans to cool things down and promote evaporation which will also cool down the tank.

miketapout · #3 04/14/2005, 10:04 PM

ohh yeah sorry i forgot to mention its a 29g FOWLR tank
but if the tank temp stays at that level will the future fish be okay?

yeah more info on FOWLR BAREBOTTOM tank
hangon skimmer
hangon filter(for carbon purposes)
1 600ghp powerhead...

jdieck · #4 04/14/2005, 10:17 PM

Where is the high temperature comming from? Do you have metal halides? 85F is on the high side, some cooling fans can help.
For cleaning crew I woul drecomend 3 Mexican Turbo Snails, about 10 cerith snails and about 15 Trochus or Astrea Snails.

miketapout · #5 04/14/2005, 10:30 PM

i think its comming from my 2600ghp pump for my skimmer and its really HOT here in the summer

miketapout · #6 04/14/2005, 10:32 PM

nopes no MH its only florecent.... its only for fowlr tank...

miketapout · #7 04/15/2005, 04:57 AM

bump

bigfishman · #8 04/15/2005, 05:38 AM

You should add fish first before adding any cleaning crew but the main problem now for you is the high temperature. 30 degree is way too high. It may not kill your fish but it is likely to stress your fish so much. Are you using any heater now? Turn it off first and lower your temperature. You should keep your temperature at around 25 degree or a bit lower.

Try to find out the source of high temperature first.

By the way, what skimmer are you using now? Why do you need a 2600ghp pump for your skimmer?

jdieck · #9 04/15/2005, 05:45 AM

Mike I think the pump might be too large for that system. Are you sure is a 2600 gph pump? I have that size pump but my tank is a 225 gallon tank.

You might try some fans and see ho wit goes.

Bigfishman:

Why to add the fish before the snails? Does not make much sense to me. Any particular reason?
The snails feed on algae which grows by itself in a fishless tank. Adding fish without letting the microfauna reproduce will reduce the benefits of having using live rock to populate the tank.

bigfishman · #10 04/15/2005, 06:13 AM

Based on the information miketapout provided, if the tank is fully cycled, I will definitely add fish first before any cleaning crew.

The main reason is that since the tank is fishless now, the main tank now can act as QT tank at the moment. If the fish has any disease, it is a easier to treat the main tank or
I can say, it is a lot easier to deal with the fish only without any concern when something goes wrong with the fish. I will not worry about any algae problem first.

jdieck · #11 04/15/2005, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigfishman
Based on the information miketapout provided, if the tank is fully cycled, I will definitely add fish first before any cleaning crew.

The main reason is that since the tank is fishless now, the main tank now can act as QT tank at the moment. If the fish has any disease, it is a easier to treat the main tank or
I can say, it is a lot easier to deal with the fish only without any concern when something goes wrong with the fish. I will not worry about any algae problem first.

My friend, I can not consider that a valid reason. If the fish come in sick you can not treat the tank without causing great damage to the live rock and the bio diversity in it, cleaning crew or not cleaning crew.

bigfishman · #12 04/15/2005, 06:55 AM

I dont need you to consider if my reason is a vaid reason because I dont agree with you in the first place.

Are you trying to kill the cleaning crew when the fish has disease by treating it in the main tank?

You should think about miketapout's situation, he is just a beginner. If something goes wrong with the fish, it is a lot easier to deal with only the fish and without any further concerns about the cleaning crew.

jdieck · #13 04/15/2005, 07:19 AM

It is Mike who I am thinking about. You do not spend 3 dollars a pound in live rock just to kill it by treating sick fish in the main tank.
Fish has to be trated in quarentine tanks mostly barren of crustacean life. You do not treat fish in a main tank with live rock even without a cleaning crew, period.

Mike: You do not have to belive me. If you have any doubts about it please post the question to some of the experts here. Tony Calfo may clarify this for you. He can also clarify about the benefits of delaying the introduction of predators for the benefit of the development of the live rock life diversity.

ctsieber · #14 04/15/2005, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdieck
Where is the high temperature comming from? Do you have metal halides? 85F is on the high side, some cooling fans can help.
For cleaning crew I woul drecomend 3 Mexican Turbo Snails, about 10 cerith snails and about 15 Trochus or Astrea Snails.

if our going to keep any corals dont get any turbo snails, they are like a bull dozer in your tank.

ctsieber · #15 04/15/2005, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by miketapout
im in my 3 1/2 weeks of cycling.. with a FOWLR
params nitirite 0
ammonia 0
nitrate 0-5

im abouth 2weeks or so
ill be adding my first clean up crew...
my first inhabitants would be 2 clearner shrimps
or a couple of snails still deciding

and after 2 weeks +
ill be stocking my fishes slowly
2 clown fish
and 2 benggai cardinals..

am i overstocked?
or can i add another centerpiece fish?

and i have a huge problem

my tank temp reads to about
30 degree celsius
or 85 fareinheit
is that to hot for my tank?
would any livestock survive with that kind of water temP???

if you cant get the temp under control, do not add any live stock. once the temp is down to 79-81 then add your clean up crew first, give them acouple weeks in the tank. Remember the tank can go through a small cycle everytime you add things to it, so make sure you go slowly. Afew acouple weeks add a fish or 2. If your going to be keeping corals I wouldnt add any for 3 months, if you want sps i wouldnt add for 6 months.

miketapout · #16 04/15/2005, 09:33 AM

opps sorry made i mistake...
its a 300-500gph pump for a venturi protein skimmer..

my tank is covered with glass for less evaporation....
is this maybe the prob?

jdieck · #17 04/15/2005, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by miketapout
opps sorry made i mistake...
its a 300-500gph pump for a venturi protein skimmer..

my tank is covered with glass for less evaporation....
is this maybe the prob?

Just remove the glass and see how it goes. My best guess is the evaporation will lower the temp a couple of degrees.
Remember to replace the evaporation with fresh water and not salt water as salt will not evaporate.
Do not let evaporate too much without replacing the evaporated water as your salinity will increase.

Pike · #18 04/15/2005, 09:47 AM

Unplug your heater in the morning & watch your tank temp with the lights on throughout the day. If the temp begins to drop, your heater is out of calibration. Every single "twistknob" thermostat heater I've ever owned had been out of range by at least a degree or 2. One of them, 8 degrees!

If you find this to be the case, simply turn your thermostat down a few degrees indicated & observe the new temp.

HTH

miketapout · #19 04/15/2005, 09:47 AM

yup that maybe the culprint but with the current temp..
would any fish? inverts? etc.. survive?

Pike · #20 04/15/2005, 09:51 AM

Not indefitely, no

82f seems to be the magic number. Above that & things IME begin to show clear signs of stress. I shoot for 80 myself.

sulp · #21 04/15/2005, 10:14 AM

I'm a solid 77.9 degrees all throught the day. I drop to 77.1 overnight. These temps. seem to be working great for me. 85 is definatley too, too high.

miketapout · #22 04/16/2005, 04:14 AM

guys i took of the glass cover of my tank and place a big *** fan infront of it and the temp went down

it went from 85 to 82....

will that be enough?
how else can i lower the temp down....

3 degrees down a few more to go

jdieck · #23 04/16/2005, 07:08 AM

Try to have a small fan blowing across the surface of the water, that shall make it even better.

A small fan blowing across the surface of the sump water (if you are usung a sump) will also help.

Now have you found the source? What is the room temperature? I am still puzzled that without Metal Halide your temperature is that high.
Have you checked that the heaters are not comming on?

miketapout · #24 04/16/2005, 07:59 PM

no heaters... no halides...
its really hot in in PH in the summer....

jdieck · #25 04/16/2005, 09:09 PM

PH?? Were are you located?

If it is really hot and you have no aircon in the room you may need to get a chiller although for the money and power consumption it might be better to get a widow air con. Great excuse dont you think?