PH & Alk problem. Help...

simon.007 · #1 11/04/2006, 03:03 PM

My tank's ph use to be for the last 2 years between 7.9 - 8.2, occuasionally 8.3. My CA reactor broke about 5 weeks ago so I was dosing baking soda. I noticed my ph is now between 8.3 - 8.4 and alk 500+. One of my SPS is RTNing and LPS not opening. Can the ALk and PH cause this? I am about to change 50G of my 400G h2o. Please advise.

Thanks in advance.
Simon

glaudds · #2 11/04/2006, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by simon.007
and alk 500
Thanks in advance.
Simon

Alk at 500..is that correct? dkh or meq/L? Either way if your alk is high, stop the baking soda. The alk will drop on its own. If it is extremely high, water changes will help. Once it drops to what you want it to be, make sure you are adding balanced additions of Ca and alk untiil you get your reactor back on line.

simon.007 · #3 11/04/2006, 03:44 PM

Actually I think it was more the 500 b/c I used 100% of the color change and the color did not change

glaudds · #4 11/04/2006, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by simon.007
Actually I think it was more the 500 b/c I used 100% of the color change and the color did not change

What test kit? 500 is way off the scale (if we are measuring in dkh or meq/l) . Are you testing for calcium? That would make more sense for a reading of 500+.

Yinger · #5 11/04/2006, 03:49 PM

Hey Simon, high alk can definitely cause RTNing. the high alk is probably burning the corals. 50% water change might stress out the corals more due to the swing in alk. Do you mean 5.00? are you using salifert?

DANNY G2004 · #6 11/04/2006, 08:54 PM

not sure if your testing right but like they said High ALK will couse RTNing retest just to make sure and stop dosing ALK 500 does sound wired and do let us know what test kit that will help

simon.007 · #7 11/04/2006, 10:04 PM

I am using salifert and when I test h2o from the store it is 9.2. Anyways 50G changed of the 400G and no change yet. How about dosing vinegar?

Simon

laverda · #8 11/05/2006, 01:42 PM

Adding Calcium will drop your ALk accordingly to some of the chemistry articles. But you need to add just Calcium, so you cant use your CA reactor or Kalk. I did the same thing in my nano cube. I did a 20% water change and did not even notice a differance but when I add the calcium it brought the ALK down slowly. My Ca was low. Apparently it is almost imposable to have high ALK and Ca at the same time. Check Anthonys articale here. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

simon.007 · #9 11/05/2006, 02:19 PM

Just added CA of a 2 part system. Hopefully, This will help. my poor SPS are RTNing....

simon.007 · #10 11/06/2006, 12:43 AM

Ok. Now at 8:30pm the Ph is back down to 8.27 from 8.41. I added Bionic's CA about 16oz and put my CO2 with diffuser and controlled by AQcontroller into the sump. Hopefully tomorrow PH will be ok and ALK back to normal.
Thanks!
Simon

laverda · #11 11/06/2006, 01:15 AM

Simon The high ALK and Calcium levals are more critical then the PH as far as I know. Especially, when they are as far off as yours are.

DANNY G2004 · #12 11/06/2006, 06:16 PM

I dought your ALK will go down so quick in such a little time unless you have lots of SPS and do major water changes

rscott76 · #13 11/06/2006, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DANNY G2004
I dought your ALK will go down so quick in such a little time unless you have lots of SPS and do major water changes

16oz of b-ionic and adding CO2 might be able to do it esp if he added it all at one time. chemistry says if there is enough acid present to take up all the excess alk...it will. not sure if the co2 addition to the main tank would have been enough but it looks like maybe it did?

simon...whatever changes you make...make them slow. it might be more the rapid changes in alk causing your sps to die vs the level alone.

Reefers4U · #14 11/06/2006, 09:19 PM

Alright, Im not trying to shanghi Simon's Thread- but seeing this prompted me to test my water quality as well. It seems my Calcium IS WAY high... 500+ but my Alk is at 60 meq/L.

Reef Chemistry Calculator says I need to add 22oz of baking soda... is this correct? Should I drip this over a few weeks?

Thanks RC!

-Josh

Sorry to Simon in advance!

glaudds · #15 11/06/2006, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Reefers4U
Calcium IS WAY high... 500+ but my Alk is at 60 meq/L.

Alk of NSW is around 3 meq/L or 8 dkh. 60 meq/L is way off the scale. What are you dosing with at this time? If you're levels are indeed that high, stop the dosing and let it fall naturally.

DANNY G2004 · #16 11/06/2006, 09:31 PM

60meq/L?
Are you sure? its not 6meq/l

Reefers4U · #17 11/06/2006, 09:33 PM

I havent dosed anything yet- KentsCalc in the past- which of course is going to stop. I just retested and it came up 60 again. 6 drops at 10 meq/L a drop. I am using Hagen's test kit.

glaudds · #18 11/06/2006, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Reefers4U
I havent dosed anything yet- KentsCalc in the past- which of course is going to stop.

Reefers4U..

To Reef Central

Something is not right...what test kits are you using and how old? If you're not dosing, your alk readings shouldn't be that high....

Reefers4U · #19 11/06/2006, 09:57 PM

Hey! WOW! Thanks. I wish my fish did that- they seem to run in fear when I come around.

I think the Alk is too low actually and the Calc. is too high? Im using Hagen.

glaudds · #20 11/06/2006, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Reefers4U
Hey! WOW! Thanks. I wish my fish did that- they seem to run in fear when I come around.

I think the Alk is too low actually and the Calc. is too high? Im using Hagen.

Alk should be around 3 meg/L, not 60 meq/L. So if you're test is correct, your alk is way too high. You're Ca reading of 500+ is on the high side (should be around 400-425)

I have no experience with the Hagen test kits, but I understand that they can be inaccurate. I personally use Salifert tests with no issues.

Reefers4U · #21 11/07/2006, 01:06 AM

Ok just got back from the LFS to get a second opinon. Turns out your right it is at 6 and my PH is a little low at 7.8. I got some ph buffer to fix.

PsychoKnight · #22 11/07/2006, 01:48 AM

Reefers4U
Have you figured out what you did wrong in using the Hagen ALK test kit?
Its very important that you learn to use it properly, or else you'll never be able to monitor your chemical levels, and most test kits use a similar color-changing titration method.
If seawater is around 4 meq/L, and one drop of titration equals 10 meq/L of sampling, how can that be?

If you are willing to post the instructions of your kit, by scanning then enlarging before uploading, or preferably scan/ocr the text, or just plain type out the pertinent paragraphs verbatim, I'm sure people will help you interpret the steps and provide some guidance.

Also, the LFS should be able to hep you use your test kit if you bring it to them, and they happen to carry the same brand.

Just curious, . . . How have you been testing for the last two years? Did you switch test kits?

glaudds · #23 11/07/2006, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Reefers4U
Ok just got back from the LFS to get a second opinon. Turns out your right it is at 6 and my PH is a little low at 7.8. I got some ph buffer to fix.

Your alk is still too high at 6 meq/L. I would not worry about your pH at this time...7.8 is ok for the time being, it's more important to get your water's chemistry in line.

The problem with adding pH buffer is that it will add alkalinity to your tank....something you don't need at this time (assuming your readings are correct)

laverda · #24 11/07/2006, 02:57 AM

Reefers4U: Was that 6 DKH or 6 meg/L? you have to be clear when talking about this.

Reefers4U · #25 11/07/2006, 11:34 AM

Wow- OK. I just took a closer look. Boy am I a damn fool. No wonder I barely passed chemistry (it had nothing to do with my waining attendance rate, Im sure)

So we are all on the same page here are the instructions:
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...p?photo=191080

Here is the conversion and results chart
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...p?photo=191082

The results I earlier posted is at 60 Mg/L.
Using a conversion chart provided I get 1.2 mEq/L ?

The Alk has been testing noramally (IAW the instructions) for the past year that I have had my tank so I have never had reason to question it.