Should I add iodine?

[wicked_NaCl_h2o]

Could there be a shortage of iodine in my 120? For some reason when I have corals in my 24 gallon they look healthy and grow and spread. When I put them in the 120 they look healthy but don't grow. Every thing test fine in our 120 ph 8.3 and calcium 320..the 24 gallon calcium is 300 and ph 8.3. All we have is mushrooms, soft corals and one LPS but the LPS is in the 24 gallon untill we can figure out whats wrong with the 120. The 120 has been running for almost 10 months.
nh3= 0
no3= 0
no2= 0
po4= 0
dkh =10
Sal 32.5
SG 1.024
We use instant ocean for salt
Shouldn't I get plenty of iodine from water changes? We do 6 gallon water changes every week on the 120. I read that iodine keeps corals healthy and helps them grow. What could possibly be the problem with my 120? oh and we use RO water to make salt water and do top offs with RO as well.

[st9z]

i dose for iodine once a week 1.5ml for my 55 gallon

[st9z]

i am guessing it wouldnt be a bad idea if you did as well.. do you dose for anything at all in ur tank? Like calcium, stronium, bronium, mag, or alk?

[Percula9]

You need to bring your calcium above 400ppm and your corals will start to grow. Instant ocean is a little low in calcium. Try either Red Sea coral pro or Reef crystals by Instant Ocean. Don't dose what you can't test for. Do more water changes with a salt that has higher Calcium and Magnesium levels. All other parameters are good except for calcium.

[tongphan]

I have recently kept my calcium at 500 with the alk at 9.5 and now all my sps grow like crazy. When the calcium was at 400 and alk at 8, I did not have any growth to brag about.

[Billybeau1]

I agree with Perc on this one.

If you are going to use IO, you will have to supplement calcium and occasionally magnesium.

You can either use the diy's, a commercial 2-part, or switch salts to something with a little higher calcium. Reef Crystals which is made by IO would be a better choice for your tank if you don't want to supplement as much.

[bertoni]

Iodine generally is not worth supplementing:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/chem.htm

I agree that raising calcium is key. I wouldn't want that to fall below 350 ppm.

[wicked_NaCl_h2o]

I have red sea success calcium+3. My husband tells me since we only have soft corals in the 120 they don't need a lot of calcium. I will try and get the calium levels up and see if that helps. We haven't been adding the calcium+3 lately because we were told the soft corals don't need it as badly as the sps and lps corals. Which makes it strange, my calcium levels are lower in the 24 gallon and corals are growing just fine in there and they are happier there. Maybe my corals don't like the MH lights. What ever is going on I hope you guys can help me figure it out. Thanks for all the comments so far.. I will try to raise the calcium. I will add some to our next top off. Once I get the calcium up to 400 I will tell you if there is any difference. This may take a while since it took us a while to raise it up to 320.

Red Sea success calcium+3 has strontium, molybdenum and iodine supplement.

We also add reef plus..vitamins
I wonder if it would be safe to add red sea marine success trace element replenisher with the reef plus. What do you guys think?

It is safe to change the salt you use?..If so I will look for the salt you guys mentioned. Instant ocean is the only salt I can find at my lfs..maybe they have those at petsmart.

[Percula9]

Maybe the corals in the smaller tank are getting better flow, so they are doing better. Even soft corals need proper calcium for their internal support structures. Try reef advantage calcium by seachem. It has magnesium and strontium and of course calcium in ratios that is in seawater. Reef plus has all the trace elements in it also, so no need to add separate trace. No problem changing to a different salt. Take a look at the list of ingredients on the bottle of reef plus. Though you will need a magnifying glass.

[bertoni]

The calcium can be dosed directly into the tank. Calcium can be raised 100 ppm per day safely, in my experience. Although soft corals don't consume much calcium, coralline can consume a lot.

[ouling]

Originally posted by Percula9
You need to bring your calcium above 400ppm and your corals will start to grow. Instant ocean is a little low in calcium. Try either Red Sea coral pro or Reef crystals by Instant Ocean. Don't dose what you can't test for. Do more water changes with a salt that has higher Calcium and Magnesium levels. All other parameters are good except for calcium.

I can't completely agree with the calcium above 400ppm suggestion. Calcium uptake of corals are independent of the amount of calcium in the water. People who raise calcium to 500ppm, and not using a calcium reactor are in more risk IMO than having calcium staying at a steady 360-380ppm. So if you keep up the water test in your tank, and dose accordingly, you should not worry about magic calcium numbers.

Alk need to stay above 8DKH all the time tho, because this one actually effects pH.

There are 1394285923412 EE24 reasons why corals don't grow...

1. Iodine is not one of them. Iodine/Iodide is absolutely not necessary in a typical reef tank. Your IO salt is probably 10X higher in iodine than NSW already.

Light and flow, and the amount of time your coral been in your tank, along with the stability of the system is the reason your corals not growing. (Not growing don't mean they're not healthy)

What I suggest is just this, you pick a number and keep them steady:

Calcium 360-420
Alk: 8DkH-12DKH
Magnesium: 1300ppm-1600ppm
pH: should not be a problem anymore.
Lighting, as much as you can afford.
Flow, 30-100X turn-over rate, random flow

[bertoni]

I don't see any reason to keep magnesium above 1300 ppm, and 8 dKH won't guarantee that the pH will remain acceptable in the presence of a lot of CO2. Higher calcium levels have been correlated to more growth, so keeping them around 450 ppm might help in that area.

[ouling]

The reason the keep magnesium above 1300 is to be able to keep calcium above 430ppm.

Your saying that there is no point of keeping magnesium at above 1300. Do you think there is a way to keep magnesium at 1100 and calcium at 450ppm?

I'm pretty sure ionic calcium is limited by the amount of magnesium in the water, if there is not enough mag bonded to calcium's surface, calcium is going to stick to carbonates, then you have a snow storm, and the magic 450ppm Ca will never appear.

[bertoni]

I have kept calcium at 450 ppm with magnesium at 1100 ppm. Keeping magnesium at 1300 ppm is more than enough. This article covers all the water parameters:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.htm

It also has pointers to more detailed articles.

[ouling]

So which part does it say that calcium is not limited by magnesium in 1-3 ratio?

I see the top of the article, where it gives you suggested numbers; it said:
380-450 ppm Ca
1250-1350 ppm Mg

NSW is:
420 ppm Ca
1280 ppm Mg

It seem to me that the magnesium suggestion is always 3X higher than calcium concentration in PPM.

I do not understand the point of keeping magnesium at 1100 ppm, if you do then there is absolutely no way on earth you're going to have a 450ppm calcium reading, it is just not going to happen. Fish tank test kits are often at fault in this case.

Having a high magnesium such as 1400-1500 ppm does nothing negative to your tank. It's one less thing to worry about since most reefers do not test it often. Mg does not percip out of solution until 1700+ppm on GT lab instruments.

[bertoni]

Instant Ocean mixes up to 1100 ppm magnesium. As far as magnesium needing to be 3x calcium, that's not stated in the article. That subject has been debated a lot of times, and I don't know of any science tying the parameters that way.

High levels of magnesium probably don't do any harm, although some pest algae don't always agree.

[ouling]

I would agree on not having the mag over 1380ppm for people with 4'' sand beds, unless you use magnesium cloride or Tech-M.

2-4 lbs of MgSO4-7H2O would raise the sulfate levels higher than NSW. Syn salt mix are very low in sulfate, so a moderate mount would do no harm, and sulfate is also a buffing compound.

The problem with DSB and sulfate is that it gets turned into sulfide gas at the bottom of the sand bed, and bubbles it's way out the tank while making H2SO4. The acid produced will drop the pH somewhat. It will also make your house smell like human produced gas. Yummy

[Scissorhand]

Bravo. Good discussion. Thanks. I think you guys indirectly have helped me solve a few things.

Question: How fast is magnesium consumed by corals? Assuming that your water parameter levels are stable at recommended range? And if you have a calcium reactor, is the magnesium released usually enough to not have to dose? Or if you have to dose magnesium, how often do you dose?

Please list your answer in addition to your tank size or any other variables to keep in mind.

Thanks again.

[gh0st]

I've read the same articles about Iodide in the aquarium, but I tried some anyway, and it has improved coral color and growth slightly, more than I expected from the reading I'd done.

I dose half of what's recommended so far, and results have been pretty positive.

[waterman78]

Wicked: IMO yes! Dose it. Not a lot but just enough to notice a bit of coral improvements and algae growth. If you have a sump, covert it into a refugium and add some macroalgae. Also increase your Mg and Ca levels. May sure to test and monitor...should also pay close attention to your temp and evaporation rate. Remember to top off...and there's no pressure coming from this direction. Keep up the good work. I'm just putting in my 4 cents hoping to help you out. Peace.

Larry

[wicked_NaCl_h2o]

Yes, we have a sump and want to convert it into a refugium we have plenty of microalgae that can grow in there. Right now the microalgae is in our 10 gallon and 24 gallon. I am told that the sump can't be changed into a refugium quickly or you might be at risk of having a tank crash. My husband wants to get a lot more live rock before we shut our sump down anyways.

We are wanting to change the salt we use to red sea..do you think thats a good choice?

[Billybeau1]

Red Sea should be fine. Most commercial salt mixes are.

When I last tested Red Sea at 1.0265 it came in around 400 for calcium, 8 dkh and about 1300 mag.

[Percula9]

Use the Red Sea coral Pro.

[Boomer]

To pick up on some of this;

I can't completely agree with the calcium above 400ppm suggestion

I agree, all one needs is 380 ppm. Any higher does not cause corals to grow any faster. Lower levels than this can/will inhibit coal growth.


Calcium uptake of corals are independent of the amount of calcium in the water.

No they are not are not to degree. Coral growth will be reduce at low Ca++ levels.

Alk need to stay above 8DKH all the time tho, because this one actually effects pH.

Not so corals do fine in the ocean with levels lower than that. The Alk of NSW is not that high. 8 dKH is 3.2 meq l / and the ocean/reefs are no where near that. The upper Alk is 2.5 meq/ l

There are 1394285923412 EE24 reasons why corals don't grow...

And that is an understatement


It seem to me that the magnesium suggestion is always 3X higher than calcium concentration in PPM

True, to keep it in balance but not that it has to be 3 x but I would suggest that.


That subject has been debated a lot of times, and I don't know of any science tying the parameters that way.

The science revolves the Law of Equal Proportions for seawater. All NSW has that ratio at any Salinity. And low Mg++ levels will cause problem with keeping Mg++ up if to low.


sulfate is also a buffing compound

Sulfate has no impact on pH or Alk to any degree we need to be concerned about. It is not part of the Alk or Seawater Buffer system. Changing the Mg++ : SO4-- ratio from its normal 1.9 through a range of 0.48 to 7.61 has no impact on the Buffer Capacity. It a rare case if sulfate is pulling down the Mg++ it can effect ion pairing to a very small degree. If you increase the Mg++ 5-10 times that of NSW the pH will drop .5 pH units.

The problem with DSB and sulfate is that it gets turned into sulfide gas at the bottom of the sand bed

A good SB should be doing very little of that. If your house smells then you are not running a proper SB and it has gone for FAB (Facultative Anaerobic Bacteria) SB, which we want mostly, to OAB (Obligated Anaerobic Bacteria) SB, which is a no-no, although there will be some.

Having a high magnesium such as 1400-1500 ppm does nothing negative to your tank

Actually more of a + effect to some degree, as some of those unwanted algae do not like elevated Mg++ levels.

When adding Mg++ sups the sulfate should be balanced with the chloride to a certain ratio. Randy explains this in his article.

iodine.......and it has improved coral color and growth slightly

Iodine has no know effect on coral growth. Getting corals to change coral is not a indication of "health" anymore than adding something else or changing the K temp and they change color. It is people thing "I want my coral to L@@K this way".

When people add iodine to get Xenia to pulsate they are not pulsating because they are happy there is iodine in the water. They pulsate to get it away from them by generating water currents. That is why Xenia pulsate to create currents to remove their mucous accumulation. Put a Xenia in good current that pulsating stops as they do not need it. Put the same Xenia in low current and it pulsates.

How fast is magnesium consumed by corals?

The same way Ca++ or Sr++ are , it is in the water and fits into the Aragonite lattice. However, Mg++ fits very poorly into that lattice and is why some hard corals have much more Sr ++ than Mg ++ as Sr++ fits in real nice. If they are corals that produce Hi-Mg-Calcite as a skeleton there will be much less Sr++, as Sr++ does not fit in very good into the Calcite lattice and Mg++ fits quite well into Calcite crystal lattice.

Calcium concentration thus strongly influences calcification affecting both crystal structure and rate of calcite deposition. Photosynthesis and calcification are not closely coupled and that calcification depends on a precise balance of both calcium and magnesium concentrations when they from calcite skeletons.

Aragonitic corals are much much less effected by Mg++ but many corals contain both Calcite, in the interior part of their skeletal structures and Aragonite on the outer structures. Some of these corals may have up to almost 50 % HI-Mg-Calcite. Of that 50 % about 15- 20 % mol will be Mg++.

[Boomer]

I forgot

Mg does not percip out of solution until 1700+ppm on GT lab instruments.

That is not so at all. Ca++ leaves solution quite easily and when it does it takes Mg++ with it. If there is any calcareous material it is even greater, as such media facilitates the precip of Hi-Mg Calcite on calcareous surface grains. This is why when you take a fresh calcareous media and add seawater to it the pH goes down. This has been proven many time is the lab by geochemists and even Randy talks about it in his article. You can also get some Mg(OH) 2 which does to like going back into solution.