Unintended Consequences

[dsandfort]

Sometimes, when very good people do very good things for the best of reasons, there are negative, or unintended consequences (in this case negative I fear). In the midst of an historic run by the Rockies, I would like to discuss this further. The discussion can wait for the appropriate time, but I think we need to have the discussion.

Del

[racer69]

Whats up Del?

[reefkoi]

LOL first time I have ever seen you in our forum!
Rockies? baseball? hmmmm........ I think its a mispost or something.
Chris

[dsandfort]

Here's my thinking. Several years ago, a group of loyal reefers tried to make our club better. "Better" came under much discussion and even anger. Folks who honestly thought they were doing a good thing were accused of many things. All of a sudden, we went from A club with a very strong, opinionated and interesting membership to at least 4 clubs. It also seems that principals in each club hold some members in others with such disdain that we can't learn anything from each other.
I don't think this is what anyone wanted to see happen.
So....I'm just wondering. What happened?

[reefkoi]

A lot happened, we became very strong and we are learning and growing faster than ever.
Your introduction is the best beat around the bush intro I've ever seen, it tells me a lot about you.
I assume this useless thread will be closed soon, next time if you have something to say, just say it!
I still don't know what you are talking about, must be referring to something before my time.
I don't care about the past whatsoever, I will help to move this club forward and never look back.
Chris

[Questin]

Yeah, this is what I could call a phishing post just looking for trouble.

But here are the simple and undeniable facts, Denver has enough people in it to support 3 clubs if not more by itself, there was no reason to stay as one club with Denver when we had some many people in the southern part of the state that could support its own club. This is exactly what has happened, and now we can focus on the members of this area. Even now we have members that drive up from Pueblo, and that is a bit of a drive.

This is not a baseball game. It is not reef club vs reef club to get to the world reef club event. We all share information with each other, the ones that only give that information to club members are the ones that have caused any of this disdain you are talking about.

We have even linked up with a New York Reef Club to share information, so any blame you think fall onto us for your outlook on the clubs in Colorado is yours alone.

[Huhhhhh]

Hi dsandfort

I'm the PR guy for SCMAS and I would like to extend a welcoming hand to you and your club/friends to come down on the 20th of this month to enjoy our first annual frag swap.

Maybe we can talk in depth to what is on your mind and mend whatever damage is ailing you.

It sounds like whatever you are referring to has happened before my time also so I'll only concentrate on the future.

Since we've stepped it up a little and got more organized I think we are heading in the right direction and having Randy Reed from Reef Nutrition and Kris Wray from Reefer Madness at our Frag Swap next week I think proves the point.

[Rocmtnreef]

The SCMAS club is a good club with good solid people. I believe that you would be welcome. See you at the swap, Go Rockies, Go SCMAS, Go Reefers!

[ReefJerk]

Del, although I have never had much(or any, as far as memory serves me) interaction with you on the boards, from my reading over the past few years, it seems you have a lot to offer to the entire Colorado reef community. I have seen some of the bad-blood rants at RMRC and associates. I have seen you as one who tried to be unbiased in these situations. Again, this is from my recollection over the past few years. I agree that things were said and done that would have better been handled behind closed doors. We(wow, I actually feel like a part of our club) have had a few spats, lost a few members, but always felt it was worth fighting for the good of the group rather than any one individual's agenda. With the threat of sounding extremely corny, "There is no I in WE,or US, or CLUB, or GROUP..." Personally, I think you'd be more than gratified if you came down and spent an hour or two in dialog with this club's officers. They have proven to be fair, loyal, dedicated, and generous. I am not an officer, but feel that as part of us, I had the right, and a slight sense of duty, to speak up.
If I'm long-winded, I apologize. It's late and I'm tired. Anyway, good night, SCMAS, wherever you are.

Cliff

[thejrc]

alright, I'll debunk it before it happens..... be very aware that our PR guy looks nothing like his avatar.... (yeah I know, huge dissapointment). I will definately reinforce the "come to the swap" comment.

As a very new member to the club I have no idea what's happened in the past, I will say that the club as it stands right now has been more than excellent as a resource and community for me. These guys have been a lifeline, endless source of knowledge, and a complete blast in what is a fairly new hobby for me. I like to think I'm ahead of my time in reefkeeping and I know for a fact that more than most of the knowledge I have collected thus far in this hobby has come from my interactions with the club, it's members, and other people within the entire reefing community. Wondering what happened is one thing, but pushing on and helping each other is a whole better thing! Would love to see you aboard (give me another brain to pick).

Scanning through the posts here on RC and on the RMRC site it's definately been an interesting time for RMRC, I'm glad to see them pressing on regardless! When looking at clubs I posted to both SCMAS and RMRC at the same time, I simply found that a more localized club allows for better interaction. I was immediately greeted by these guys and it's been an interesting journey since. Unfortunately the only response I received from RMRC was from one of our own SCMAS members. I dont fault anyone, I think the sheer sizes of the clubs have a lot to do with this reasoning. I just prefer a club that is actively helping members, including new ones rather than one where i need to force my way into the flock for help. (then again I posted on the rmrc.info site and I dont think people were active on it, hopefully you guys will have better communication via both forums!)

[Zooid]

Don't feel bad....I had about 2 posts on the rmrc.info site until this month. That's about 1 post every 6 months lol. Hopefully more people will start to post over there and it seems they are.
I wish I could make it to your swap, it sounds like it's going to be great. Good luck with it

[artful-dodger]

Del is not beating around the bush or phishing for trouble. He's attempting to be tactful in order to avoid such comments and not repeat some of the recent digressions into flame wars and tantrums...I guess it didn't work out.

I've known Del as long as I've been involved with this club. I guarantee that there isn't one among us who couldn't learn from Del and his experience with very large tanks (and plumbing!) Frankly, I miss Kip and several others who've drifted away from RC or just spend their time in another forums.

Anybody who has been online anywhere for any length of time has probably watched some other BB, forum or mailing list disintegrate--generally from just one or two trolls who seem to enjoy offending others. I really don't think anyone here has the explicit goal of fragmenting the club and driving away active, experienced and helpful members. (Correct me if somebody [U]does have that objective...)[/I]

That is the unexpected and undesirable consequence. Perhaps losing our elders (sorry, Del) is what we deserve if we can't figure this social stuff out--but consider that potential beginners and new members are also influenced by the tone of these posts. Driving them away would be an even bigger loss.

The forum seems to have been producing lots of heat (without much light) recently. I share the objective that Del has tried to (gently) put forth, that we find a way to "all get along" and not be so quick assign ulterior motives to other participants or their posts.

As my father, the teacher, used to say, "It isn't productive and gives a poor impression of the children in the class." (I already have two teenagers who provide all of the drama I need in my life.)

My suggestion to anyone else who doesn't enjoy circling the drain is to do a personal moderator job. Just put those you find to be boorish (yeah, me included) onto your Ignore List (available on the My RC page)--that's why the feature was added. Frankly over several years here I have not really missed reading comments by the few members already on my Ignore List...and my blood pressure is all the better for it.

[miwoodar]

No hard feelings here either. Like many folks, I came along after the breakup and continue to be confused by the split and the occasional hard feelings. I wish I could make it down to support your swap but I have a prior commitment that I can't break. Best of luck.

[thejrc]

kinda nice coming along afterwards I think, the confusion is there but at least we didnt have to deal with it!

just keep on reefin!

[Huhhhhh]

It sounds like we all want the same thing here. You guy's should make an effort to come down to the swap and mingle with us. The more knowledge the better I say.

[The Haj]

Del definetly has plenty of knowledge,Whats up buddy long time no see. I'll P.M. ya later!

[reefkoi]

You know I have never heard one person down here say anything about the split or hard feeling or anything.
I only hear it from members of the RMRC. Maybe we just let it go and moved on, I dunno.
Anyway I don't think there is a need to re-hash it do you? I mean really do we need to talk about it? I don't think so, for now our club is running smoothly and I don't see why we can't invite you to our events and vice versa right?
We don't charge our members anything to be part of the club and it suits us fine, I don't know why we need to re-think that descision our Previous board made do you guys?
C

[racer69]

Chris is correct with we need to leave things the way they are. I have been here since the beginning and most of the new formation of our club was due to logistics as well as a few other things that need not be mentioned. Nobody up north wanted to have meetings down here and it was too hard for southern colorado members to make it up there all the time. Coreefer, Leopard Wrasse, Murfman, and myself met one evening and came up with this club. We have had our growing pains, but we are still growing and getting better. We have an excellent dynamic and we seem to grow larger by the day. It may be the more layed back atmosphere down here as opposed to the hussle and bussle of the big city, but we have genuine support. We generally have 30-50 people at every meeting every month and we don't charge anything for membership. Sometimes it is just better to leave things alone and I think that is exactly what we will be doing.

I do hope you guys sort out your problems and have a succesful club. I have met a lot of your members and they are very nice people. Our club is very happy to have other club members visit our events and even attend some meetings, but we will not be joining any other club as it is written in our bylaws and changing that would be tough.

[artful-dodger]

Just a clarification of my post of last night...I didn't mean to imply that that there was disharmony within the SCMAS or between the southern club and those of us farther north.

All of the drama (so far as I know) has been taking place up here. My post here was an attempt to explain (but not justify!) some recent over-reactions of people on other forums focused on the metro and northern groups.

I know that many SCMAS members stay in touch with the other forums but many probably don't. It was apparent that Del's original post was a bit cryptic for anybody not involved in whatever it is going on up here. (So cryptic that a moderator jumped in and immediately closed the same post in the RMRC forum without understanding the background or the intent.)

I, for one, think that separating clubs based on geography makes good sense; what doesn't make sense is the occasional hostility shown by some members to others (including the mods.)

The recent positive comments in this thread are exactly what we all need to foster. Please continue to support each other and generate goodwill among all members, regardless of geography.

Thank you.


Now returning you to your regularly scheduled SCMAS forum...

[Clown-N-Around]

I am looking forward to checking out the swap. I think you guys are doing awesome things down there and I would love to learn from what you have put together.

Same way, I hope your members feel welcome to come to any of our events. We are working on a speaker conferrence, tentatively planned for February 23.

I think there is plenty of room for both clubs to be successful and you guys definately have a formula that is working for you. I think that is awesome. Hopefully, we can find our groove, too!

[Huhhhhh]

Originally posted by Clown-N-Around
We are working on a speaker conferrence, tentatively planned for February 23.

That sounds very cool. I was at your speaker conferrence last year and enjoyed it very much. Who do you plan on having this year?

[racer69]

I think I would like to go to the speaker conferece also. Maybe we can set up a carpool when the event gets closer.

[reefkoi]

Yes Tim and I enjoyed your mini-conference in the past, we thought you did an excellent job and we both learned a lot.
This thread started out wrong, maybe this thread could even be considered an "unintended consequence"! Some of us follow what's going on but we have been so wrapped up with the swap that I don't think anyone had a clue what was being brought up and we assumed it had something negative to do with us.
hey it happens right?
Looking forward to seeing you guys down here. From the start planning this event, I had a vision of lots of Denver members coming down here! It's for you guy's as much as it is for us
Chris

[thejrc]

he he the swsap...

perhaps I might schedule some time to hit a meeting up there, I'm occasionally in dever for work... Might be interesting to get out there and meet some people from the other clubs, though I will say, having a local club is great (especially this one!).

natch, as with any meeting I attend I'll be rsvping for 300 thousand or so.... pods in tow baby!

[ReefJerk]

I think what makes our club so cool is people like TheJRC that brings about 20 gallons of pod culture to every meeting or event to dissemanate(sp?) to anyone who wants some, free of charge. This genuine generosity of our members one to another is what gives us the wonderful dynamic that Todd(racer69) mentioned.