Stop worrying about feeding your corals.

seapug · #1 07/02/2007, 04:30 PM

I've only been involved in this hobby for a couple years, so I'm no "expert," but what is with the obsession with finding out what junk to pour in a tank to "feed" photosynthetic corals? When I started I was given the advice, "Don't go out of your way to feed your corals." Only two years later seems like there is a constant worry about what to feed corals.

What ever happened to strong light, excess fish food and poop? Yes, it can be fun to watch a coral "eat" but seems like there's been a proliferation of "what does a XXXXX coral eat?" threads lately, followed up by "I fed my XXXXX coral a pound of marinated shrimp and a frozen mouse and now its dead, why?" threads.

Here's a water quality friendly guideline for feeding photosynthetic corals:

Photosynthetic Soft corals : feed them med-strong light, good currents
Mushrooms: feed them low light, low currents
LPS: feed medium to strong light, medium to low current, drop some extra fish food on them every so often (SMALL pieces only)
SPS: feed them strong light, strong flow
Zoanthids: feed them medium to strong light, med flow.

These diet suggestions are guaranteed not pollute your water, poison your corals, or kill your fish.

honda2sk · #2 07/02/2007, 04:32 PM

hmmm.....i wonder why corals have such a HUGE percentage of their body dedicated to prey capture....in fact I believe I have read they have the largest percentage of any animal on earth....

stupid evolution, must not know what its doing!

justinl · #3 07/02/2007, 04:37 PM

it is naive to think that age old conventions will remain unchanged or disproved over the years. knowledge is dynamic.

corals eat. simple as that. yes photosynthesis also occurs, but of late we have been finding that to encourage growth and better health, feeding is a good thing. knowing what to feed and how much is the point of these threads.

honda2sk · #4 07/02/2007, 04:45 PM

thats right, many corals are very picky on what they eat so sharing what works for some might help others.

Flint&Eric · #5 07/02/2007, 04:53 PM

many corals dont need feed, many do.

with improved equipment, particularly skimmers many tanks are becoming very low nutrient and improved coral foods are a route to take.

also many lps such as blastos and acans can increase growth tremendously through feeding...

corals do eat, but most of the stuff we "feed" turns straight into no3 and po4. with that said if you are going to feed..spot feed.

imo only certain LPS and non photosynthetics need to be fed.

Mazzy · #6 07/02/2007, 05:13 PM

I am very new and so, of all posts, I am certainly not at liberty to judge your statements. I can however, say that I have one non-photosynthetic coral, which, due to my new-ness I did not realize was such when purchased. At first this coral just recieved high light and strong flow, then high light and med to low flow, then dropped to the bottom of the tank and although it still gets decently high light, it is, in my tank, what would be considered low light and low flow and through all of this it looked worse and worse by the week.

Now that I have looked into this coral more, and found that it "eats", I feed it Chromamax phytoplakton once a week (it's the only coral I have that eats so I feed sparingly) and the difference in the look of this beauty is phenomonal! Bright pink and gorgeous

, standing up straight and tall, and it's little polyps?? whatever, opened up and ready for more all the time.

So maybe you don't need to feed some that are fed but I can say that you certainly do need to feed at least some of those that "eat".

Peter Eichler · #7 07/02/2007, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seapug
I've only been involved in this hobby for a couple years, so I'm no "expert," but what is with the obsession with finding out what junk to pour in a tank to "feed" photosynthetic corals? When I started I was given the advice, "Don't go out of your way to feed your corals." Only two years later seems like there is a constant worry about what to feed corals.

What ever happened to strong light, excess fish food and poop? Yes, it can be fun to watch a coral "eat" but seems like there's been a proliferation of "what does a XXXXX coral eat?" threads lately, followed up by "I fed my XXXXX coral a pound of marinated shrimp and a frozen mouse and now its dead, why?" threads.

Here's a water quality friendly guideline for feeding photosynthetic corals:

Photosynthetic Soft corals : feed them med-strong light, good currents
Mushrooms: feed them low light, low currents
LPS: feed medium to strong light, medium to low current, drop some extra fish food on them every so often (SMALL pieces only)
SPS: feed them strong light, strong flow
Zoanthids: feed them medium to strong light, med flow.

These diet suggestions are guaranteed not pollute your water, poison your corals, or kill your fish.

That's very outdated and misguided thinking for someone so new to the hobby. Here's a good series or articles to help you understand things a little better.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-07/eb/index.php

Hormigaquatica · #8 07/02/2007, 05:31 PM

I think most people would be blown away if they really understood how much material is floating in the water column that is available as food in the ocean, and just how much of a corals physiology is dedicated to capture and consumption (for many corals at least). A lot of the foods we feed are wholly inappropriate (like phytoplankton for LPS...), and in most cases, the amount offered is FAR less than what these animals have available to them in the wild.

I think it comes down to the idea of corals surviving in our tanks, versus thriving. Many symbiotic corals are able to get by by relying on their zooxanthellae, but they are very unlikely to get all the nutrients needed to grow properly or spawn unless they have some other carbon source. To promote the idea that corals dont need additional food sources to thrive is essentially uneducated speculation mixed with laziness.

xcreonx · #9 07/02/2007, 06:28 PM

One thing to learn from biology and evolution is "form follows function".

An animal with large stinging tentacles and a mouth has evolved to catch prey with those tentacles and eat with the mouth.

seapug · #10 07/02/2007, 10:55 PM

I do agree with all of you. Yes, the numerous large stinging tentacles have evolved for prey capture-- SPARSE prey capture. If their environment was constantly saturated with food all they'd need is a mouth and wouldn't be photosynthetic.

In my limited experience, maintaining pristine water quality in a well aged tank is the key to getting good color, strong growth, mininal hair algae and less disease in photosynthetic corals than than what you "feed" them.

It is true, nutrient densities in some reefs are relatively high, but waste and toxic byproducts are minimized by the balance of the total ecosystem (massive adjacent grass/algae beds) and flushing of the water by incoming and outgoing tides. That's not something most people, especially people new to the hobby, can realistically do in their tanks.

In a properly stocked, lighted, aged, and maintained closed system aquarium of typical size, there is plenty of excess food and nutrients for the vast majority of corals to "feed" on without having to dump bottled products into your tank or jam cocktail shrimp into your brain coral to get it to survive (or thrive). If you wish to supplement food, add a refugium.

All I'm saying is worry more about water quality and overall tank health than "food." I think that's pretty good advice for a "New to the Hobby" forum. Then again, maybe I'm just clueless...

HBtank · #11 07/02/2007, 11:07 PM

I like watching my corals grow and split. One example in particular is my ricodia. They almost demand it to get significant growth IME.

I think I will keep target feeding the corals that respond well to it and seem to have slow growth otherwise. I also feed my SPS.

I agree that overfeeding anything should be avoided.

A.T.T.R · #12 07/02/2007, 11:14 PM

corals need food to thrive expecialy large sps ( inside of the coral starts to die cause it is shaded.)

now maybe the way people go about adding food is dumb ( sps almost always reject phyto plankton.. yet that seems to be the product that sells most.)
altho feeding phyto does feed everything in the long run ( you know.. moves up the food chain)
but look around. most coralfarms feed the coral

seapug · #13 07/02/2007, 11:16 PM

yep, my Ricordea, Welsophyllia, Scolymia and Cynarina are placed where fish food falls on them almost every time I feed and they gobble it up. Good for them, because it's the only "food" they get.

HBtank · #14 07/03/2007, 12:09 AM

I only feed as much as the fish will eat, and never let it "fall onto coral". I would have to overfeed to do that.

This is why I target feed small amounts directly to them. I don't want significant amounts of food floating around my tank, yet still feed them in a controlled manner..

Odd, it would seem feeding enough to your fish that allows it to hit the bottom is directly opposed to you initial post. Sounds like you are dumping "coral food" into your tank... it just happens to have a fish on the label...

UntamedBreez · #15 07/03/2007, 12:53 AM

Sea pug....you know there are two types of animals in each coral one feeds off the light and photosynith(however that big word is spelled) the other needs other foods
they work together

Bloke · #16 07/03/2007, 01:36 AM

So are you suggesting to NEVER feed?

I feed twice a week only. I keep SPS, soft, and zoanthids.

Peter Eichler · #17 07/03/2007, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seapug
I do agree with all of you. Yes, the numerous large stinging tentacles have evolved for prey capture-- SPARSE prey capture. If their environment was constantly saturated with food all they'd need is a mouth and wouldn't be photosynthetic.

In my limited experience, maintaining pristine water quality in a well aged tank is the key to getting good color, strong growth, mininal hair algae and less disease in photosynthetic corals than than what you "feed" them.

It is true, nutrient densities in some reefs are relatively high, but waste and toxic byproducts are minimized by the balance of the total ecosystem (massive adjacent grass/algae beds) and flushing of the water by incoming and outgoing tides. That's not something most people, especially people new to the hobby, can realistically do in their tanks.

In a properly stocked, lighted, aged, and maintained closed system aquarium of typical size, there is plenty of excess food and nutrients for the vast majority of corals to "feed" on without having to dump bottled products into your tank or jam cocktail shrimp into your brain coral to get it to survive (or thrive). If you wish to supplement food, add a refugium.

All I'm saying is worry more about water quality and overall tank health than "food." I think that's pretty good advice for a "New to the Hobby" forum. Then again, maybe I'm just clueless...

Did you read the articles I linked? Honestly, you sound like I did when I managed a LFS in high school. Again, your way of thinking is old, and some of your thoughts are quite backwards.

What do you mean sparse prey capture? Have you ever really looked at an SPS coral? Do you have any clue the amount of planktonic organisms present on the natural reef that feed the various corals we have? The chance of aquarists being able to feed the amount of plankton a given coral would capture in a day is slim. The quality of light we provide most of them pales in comparison as well.

Your evolutionary argument is a poor one at best. Evolution and traits within species are commonly a mystery. Also, you could easily flip it around as say that is corals were really able to thrive with strong light and good water conditions alone then why would they have mouths at all since you claim they don't need to be fed.

For one, maintaining pristine water quality and feeding your corals can and does happen concurrently in many reef aquariums. You be shocked how much food you can dump into a well established aquarium without raising nitrates, phosphates, and having a hair algae farm. The key IMO is to slowly ramp up the feeding to allow the organism in your aquarium to develop quickly enough to break down and nutrients that might be left over from excess food. Yes, there is a point at which you can feed too much. I found it a few weeks ago in my current reef. However, the little algae bloom I got was gone within a week after taking the necessary steps to get rid of it.

I've been in this hobby long enough to see it go through many phases. In the hobby today where feeding of corals is encouraged I think we're seeing growth and and coral health that was rarely possible in aquariums of old. I have little doubt that at least a part of that is due to some of the use of quality foods available today that were not available years ago.

elegance coral · #18 07/03/2007, 06:52 AM

I don't believe our goal should be to simply keep our corals alive. I believe our goal should be to have our corals grow and reproduce as best we can. In order to do this we would have to give our corals the best possible environment. This would include nourishment. I don't feel that it is even arguable these days that coral growth and overall health is dramatically improved when fed properly. I know that with Elegance corals in particular feeding makes a huge difference in expansion and growth. An Elegance may survive without feeding but that is all it will do. We should maintain sufficient filter equipment to handle the load caused by feeding our corals. If this is done, the water will stay clean and our corals will grow and out live all of us.

Flint&Eric · #19 07/03/2007, 07:19 AM

most foods we feed dont get eaten. want a natural live food source in the water column? try bacteria.

perhaps our definition of raising no3 and po4 are different, but food has a direct relationship to nutrient levels in our systems. no tank should ever have food dumped into it with out the needed export. for example pappone...but remember it has sugar.... some reefers are extremely picky about their nturient levels, for a reason...

sps do have polyps, but despite their large size the particle size that is useful to them is tiny (think DT's oyster eggs). also SPS in the wild have their polyps closed during the day due to polyp eaters.

we have a captive enviornment, you cant recreate the ocean...

Subliminal · #20 07/03/2007, 07:37 AM

I feed the things in my tank that are big enough to easily eat.

The fish get flakes. Actually 'flake'. 1 flake, 3 or 4 times a day (small fish, eh?)

The BTA gets a silverside.

The only other coral I have that's big enough to eat anything of substance is my hairy mushroom, and I usually turn off my flow and give him a chunk of silverside. He really seems to like it

King-Kong · #21 07/03/2007, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flint&Eric
most foods we feed dont get eaten. want a natural live food source in the water column? try bacteria.

perhaps our definition of raising no3 and po4 are different, but food has a direct relationship to nutrient levels in our systems. no tank should ever have food dumped into it with out the needed export. for example pappone...but remember it has sugar.... some reefers are extremely picky about their nturient levels, for a reason...

sps do have polyps, but despite their large size the particle size that is useful to them is tiny (think DT's oyster eggs). also SPS in the wild have their polyps closed during the day due to polyp eaters.

we have a captive enviornment, you cant recreate the ocean...

If you take a look at the larger colonies, in the wild, you'll only see their growing/leading edge without polyps during the day. If you take a glance down into the body, youll find a lot of those protected branches have polyps out. The larger polyp eaters like butterflies and etc. cant reach down there.

Wrench · #22 07/03/2007, 08:33 AM

I don't care about the OP's reasoning. I know that when I spot feed my LPS it grows exponetially compared to if I were to not feed it for a few weeks. I feed them mysis and a home-brew of chopped, mixed fresh seafood. As for the few SPS I have, they get a squirt of DT's a couple times a week and while I haven't seen a dramatic improvement, the color and polyp extension has improved.

$.02

Flint&Eric · #23 07/03/2007, 08:51 AM

for a handful of corals...the opposite can be said for many.

feedings depend on the type of corals you want to keep. some benefit, others dont. it's always been on on going debate and probably always will as it's going to be awhile till we're able to mimic the "snow" found in the ocean.

edit: check this link out...golden pearls versus control...but does show benefit of live food.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/6/aafeature1

RichConley · #24 07/03/2007, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by honda2sk
hmmm.....i wonder why corals have such a HUGE percentage of their body dedicated to prey capture....in fact I believe I have read they have the largest percentage of any animal on earth....

stupid evolution, must not know what its doing!

So they can catch prey.

You dont need to jam it down their throat. They can catch their own food.

RichConley · #25 07/03/2007, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by elegance coral
I don't believe our goal should be to simply keep our corals alive. I believe our goal should be to have our corals grow and reproduce as best we can. In order to do this we would have to give our corals the best possible environment. This would include nourishment. I don't feel that it is even arguable these days that coral growth and overall health is dramatically improved when fed properly. I know that with Elegance corals in particular feeding makes a huge difference in expansion and growth. An Elegance may survive without feeding but that is all it will do. We should maintain sufficient filter equipment to handle the load caused by feeding our corals. If this is done, the water will stay clean and our corals will grow and out live all of us.

Can we cut the "Thrive not survive" crap?

A very large percentage of us do not directly feed corals and they thrive. I've got some euphyllia that I got as 1 head less than 6 months ago, and are now in the 20+ head range. Thats thriving just fine. I dont feed my corals at all.

Did you guys ever stop to think that for some corals, maybe mouths are vestigal organs? Zoos have mouths, and its pretty much been proven that they DO NOT eat.

" I don't feel that it is even arguable these days that coral growth and overall health is dramatically improved when fed properly. "

It is very arguable. MOST corals only need to be fed if theyre not receiving enough light. Most corals get 90%+ of their needed energy from light. If they can't capture the remaining 10% in food, then they need to be fed. Just keep a couple of fish and its not an issue.