Plumbing questions, need opinions

[mlb75]

OK I've had my 180 up and running for several months and while things are running ok I now see some of the things that I probably should have addressed earlier but wanted to get other opinions before proceeding.

1. The tank is getting warmer than I'd like and am having to keep the house uncomfortably cool to keep it somewhat in control so I've got a chiller. The question is how to plumb it. The chiller I got is the 1/3HP Prime inline tower chiller (from DR Foster Smith) it's rated for 320-720 GPH. I've also got a UV that I've currently got running inline with my sump return pump (mag24). The plan is to take the UV out of the main return line and run it inline with the chiller. The pump I've got to do this is a mag18, I plan to take it 3/4" out of the mag 18 to the UV then up it to 1" through the chiller (figured better up to 1" than down to 1/2") but then where???

Should I take it back to the sump or return it to the display tank? After all the head loss for the turns, chiller, length of plumbing etc (chiller will be next to the tank) I don't think the mag 18 will be to much, more likely just right in terms of flow. What do others think??? Where do you dump your chiller outputs? Could I dump it into the fuge which in turn runs back into the sump? Pros, Cons of each??

I've also played with the idea of making the chiller and UV part of a closed loop system like that on Melev's reef only maybe without the Squid. Any comments? If I did that what would the impact be of having 4-6 outputs instead of 2? That way I could reduce the output of each one individually but maybe produce some current behind my rock formations.

My heartache with running it from the sump back to the display (or closed loop) is I'm afraid of creating colder zones in the display, is that an issue? I just figured if I kept the sump at a set temp the display would follow especially with the amount of flow I have going through it.

2. The main return doesn't seem to provide as much flow in the display as I thought a mag24 should. Currently it's coming out of the pump 1" into a 1" T that then exits in two 3/4" hoses to the two factory AGA returns. Would I see any improvement if I came out of the pump with a 1" to 1 1/2 reducer plumbed backward then T'ed into a 1 1/2"hard line running the length of the back with two fittings off the 1 1/2 hard line to connect to the factory returns? How about using 2" instead of the 1 1/2? I'd just like to use the pumps I've got as efficiently as possible and keep the "extra" pumps and PH's in the display to a minimum.

BTW the sump is a 75 gallon tank with a 20 gallon tank inside it used as the fuge. I run the 75 gallon about 2/3's full and the fuge tank is elevated inside to be flush with the top of the 75 so as to take up as little volume in the 75 as possible. I'm probably going to re-make the sump area before long to make some improvements there as well but the basic functionality and sizes will remain pretty much unchanged.

Thanks for any and all advise or opinions...


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[xtrstangx]

1. I would run the loop through the sump IMO. Use your Mag pump and just run it in a loop. Try to stay at 1.5" plumbing as much as you can and just reduce the pipe down when you get to the chiller/UV. Make sure to use plenty of unions as well so you can take parts offline.

2. I wouldn't put 2400 GPH through a 75g sump. I'd rather have about 900 GPH going through there for a slower turnover rate. Theres no reason to have all that flow going through the sump. If you can drill your sump, you have a lot more choices for energy efficient pumps that will push about 1000 GPH. Then you can run a CL on the tank to make up for the difference in flow from the return. Or you could always get a pair of Vortechs/Tunzes.. they aren't too big and will provide all the flow you need.

[mlb75]

Thanks for the input, I think I will put the chiller back into the sump.

As for the sump itself what other pumps would you recommend? The sump already has a 1" bulkhead in it to feed the mag but it could go to anything...

As for the closed loop / stream pumps my problem with them is I hate having all the extra "junk" in the tank. I know a lot of them are relatively small but I still see them and would really like to avoid them if possible. I look at the higher turnover in the sump as a way to expose the skimmer to more of the tank volume. The fuge is fed by a smaller pump to keep the flow manageable in there and besides even though it's rated at 2400 GPH I'd bet the actual volume is less than 1000 to be honest. There's no way that pump is going to fill 40 milk jugs in a minute...

Am I way off here? Besides I never have understood the down side of putting more flow through the sump, why is it bad? As long as all levels remain rock solid (no fluctuations in display height if the pumps / overflows aren't matched) and no air bubbles are returning to the display.

BTW watch Lost much?

Thanks.

[DaveBrader]

I would have a closed loop in the sump, sump to chiller to sump. Suction to the chiller from the area of the sump where the display tank overflow dumps into the sump, return from the chiller past there somewhere as close to the return to display as possible.

The only real "trick" here is where you put the temperature probe. You should be measuring the temp of the display,but you don't want the temperature probe in the display necessarily, so your temperature probe should be in the sump where your overflow comes into the sump. This will turn the chiller on and off based on the water temperature of the water coming from the display, not the water temperature somewhere in the sump itself. The return line from the chiller should be as close to the sump return to the display as possible. At least I think that is how I would do it... As long as you have proper flow thru the sump and in your display, there should be no cold spots or warm spots.

Dave

[MarkD40]

Mike. Three points:

1. IMO the UV should be in-line with the water returning to the display tank. This way ALL of the water entering the display has passed through the UV. Yes I know that eventually all of the water goes through the UV but I like the idea of the water being as "pure" as it can be before entering the display tank.

2. IMO the outflow from the chiller should enter the sump first. This will mix the cooler water with the warmer water first so you won't have as much temperature difference between the water entering the display and the display water. Think about sitting under the vent of an air conditioner. You will feel a cool breeze, whereas if you sit across the room you won't feel the cool air even though it is cooling down the room.

3. You don't say how far above your sump your display is. I have my sump in the basement with my return 12 feet above the sump. I tried a mag24 for my return and discovered that mag pumps don't/can't push against much head pressure. They are good circulating pumps and move a lot of water but not against pressure. When you add in fittings, elbows and valves it only gets worse. I upgraded to a gen-X hp-70 pump and the difference was amazing.

I also found that my mag 24 and mag 12 when used submerged transferred a great deal of heat to my tank. Even when I moved them outside the tank there was still a fair amount of heat transfer although less than before.