How true is this?

[Ansphire]

If you create a sand bed in your tank 3-6" deep Anaerobic bacteria will grow deep in it. This bacteria will decompose nitrate into nitrogen, and nitrogen escapes easily from our system.

How true is this?.. Anyone uses this technique?

[rustybucket145]

ummm... yeah, it's one of the more popular methods. Called DSB (Deep Sand Bed)

[Ansphire]

Many seem to think this will create problems.. I don't see why..

Anyone use this technique and can share their experience?

[rustybucket145]

Many use this without problems. There are arguments on both sides and the fact is that there is not a 'correct' answer. What works for one may not for another. I've been DSB for almost 10 years now and have had no problems at all. I wouldn't start a tank without it. But others have had long term success with BB (Bare Bottom) and wouldnt' do it any other way.

It's really all preference and what livestock you want and what maintance you want to have to perform.

[am94pm]

I also run a DSB (about 4") and have no problems at all. I am getting ready to set up another 75gal reef and will be doing a DSB again. I think a lot of it is just personal preference as well.

[Paintbug]

i too run a DSB. if done correctly its very efficient. is it the best way to go? maybe, maybe not. buy my thoughts are if theres sand in the ocean, then there will sand in my tank. but i love all the little creatures that live inside the sand bed.

[Ansphire]

Do all you have nitrate at 0?

[Sk8r]

Yes. 0 nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. THe trick is not to mess with the sandbed: if you want cleaning done, pick a nassarius snail, a conch, or other creature that spends time below ground, and they clean it bit at a time.

[reefnetworth]

dito Sk8r!
the problem Ansphire, is if LR is allowed to sit deep in a sand bed it can create sulfuric gasses as it decays. when disturbed, can kill corals and fish if to much is released at one time without sufficiant surface breakage to help release the gas. it takes out oxygen with it, leaving an abundance of Co2, which drops you pH very quickly and can do the mentioned "damage". the best way to prevent this is to keep as little rock in the sand as possible, via some research. some people use PVC to keep the rock high in the sandbed. others drill the rock and putty acrylic rods or PVC through it to create the same effect. whew! did you get all that? have a great night!
JDM..

[drummereef]

Yep, my DSB has worked flawlessly for years and I'm sure years to come. The never ending debate goes on....

0 Nitrates
0 Nitrites
0 Ammonia

My DSB is the only thing I can attribute my lack of nitrates. I don't run a fuge and don't purposely try to grow macro.

[kenny77]

Originally posted by reefnetworth
dito Sk8r!
the problem Ansphire, is if LR is allowed to sit deep in a sand bed it can create sulfuric gasses as it decays. when disturbed, can kill corals and fish if to much is released at one time without sufficiant surface breakage to help release the gas. it takes out oxygen with it, leaving an abundance of Co2, which drops you pH very quickly and can do the mentioned "damage". the best way to prevent this is to keep as little rock in the sand as possible, via some research. some people use PVC to keep the rock high in the sandbed. others drill the rock and putty acrylic rods or PVC through it to create the same effect. whew! did you get all that? have a great night!
JDM..

word. A good way to prevent this. if your DSB will be 4", get a plate of egg crate and PVC. cut the PV to half and inch less of what the sand bed will be. in this case cut it 3 1/2". place the egg crate in top of it. (PVC pipes by it self will work too)

** place the egg crate only in the area were the LR will be. most of the time from the back of the tank to the middle. Why? if you later add a cucumber, sand sifting starfish, or a wrasse(some wrasser like to burrow in the sand when sleeping) and you have the whole sand bed covered with egg crate non off this creating will have full access to there food.

[Ansphire]

Yeah.. I understood everything!

Let me ask you something. What happens if the creature digs itself inside the sand, moves towards the exit and then can't find the exit?

[ReefDreamz]

Hey just a quick ?. I have a not so deep sand bed maybe 1 to 2". I already put in all my 80 lbs of live rock and I put it right on the sand bed. Do you think it would be worth the hassle to try and move or pick up all the rock to put pvc under it? Right now the rock is directly on top of the sand buried a little bit into it. Thanks. Sorry to jump in.

-Cody

[Ansphire]

Hey hijacker!!!... Just kidding.

I don't think 1-2" is considered a DSB

[ReefDreamz]

Hahaha I was worried about hijacking but it was just too tempting not to ask. Thanks for the advice I guess I thought that even if my rock is sitting on 1" 2" or even 4" of sand it will still create sulfuric gases. I suppose I wont worry about moving it then.

[EdKruzel]

Originally posted by kenny77
if you later add a cucumber, sand sifting starfish, or a wrasse(some wrasser like to burrow in the sand when sleeping)

Kenny a cucumber is great, but a sand sifting star, crabs, gobies (Valenciennea sp.) and most wrasse species are sand bed predators. You'll still have deep sand, but it won't be active, healthy and probably turn into a nutrient sink. The former is where most hobbyists fail with a DSB and then rant about how worthless they are. It is merely their improper care for that environment. Many other hobbyists want or desire creatures that fall under the guise of being a sand bed predator and for them a shallow bed or BB is best.

A DSB is a great addition to a reef tank as long as you are aware of the limitation of livestock kept (none of the sand bed predators) and the fauna needed to keep it active and healthy.

[Ansphire]

[i]A DSB is a great addition to a reef tank as long as you are aware of the limitation of livestock kept (none of the sand bed predators) and the fauna needed to keep it active and healthy. [/B]

What fauna do you need to keep it active and healthy?

[jball]

Is lace rock ok for sand and then LR on top?

[loves saltwater]

Sand Sifting Star are bad for the sand bed ?

[sunfish11]

Sand Sifting Star are bad for the sand bed ?

yes...there are like a hundred thousand posts about this on this site. They eat all the microfauna and sterilize the bed then starve to death over the course of a year or so. That about wraps it up.

I was going to say a million posts but I thought that would be exagerating.

[kenny77]

EdKruzel thanks for clarifying. I know DSB should be left alone. I beleive that teh 5g bucket DSB is teh best method. many people even if you tell them some wrasser, cucumber, and sand sifting star are DSB predator they will still go and by it. ** That why keeping the san with no eggcrate will at least keep this animal alive. and also it help the rock form burrowing into teh sand.

this is abuot conseques. if you want a DSB to work at it should be. or if you want the creature that feed on the sand bed?

I prefere the DSB

But still the PVC pipe trick will help a lot!

[EdKruzel]

Originally posted by Ansphire
What fauna do you need to keep it active and healthy?

Pods and worms are the best for a sand bed; additional creatures used to keep it healthy would be Nassarius snails, cucmbers, Cerith snails, and I also like a Queen Conch (they grow big).

Originally posted by jball
Is lace rock ok for sand and then LR on top?

You can use lace as your base rock, although I've never been a fan of it. If you bury it in the sand it will have the same effect. I do bury some rock deep as a hold or secure structure to my reefscape. Keep it at a minimum and ensure good circulation within your tank and again, plenty of fauna throughout the substrate.

[Ansphire]

What about If I do the Sand bed In the refugium?...

Would that be of any good?

[jbrunken]

I'm in the process of setting up a new system to replace my existing 125.

I plan to do a DSB in my refugium so hopefully that will work out well.

I plan to keep a couple of inches of sand in my display tank because frankly I don't like the look of BB and my Diamond Goby (a voracious sand sifter) is one of my favorite fish.

If your only keeping a couple of inches of sand in your display and you have something like a goby keeping it stirred up, what precautions to you need to take so that it doesn't cause problems in the system?

-JB