Want to buy a SLR Camera, need advice.

RobbyG · #1 05/24/2006, 08:07 PM

Hi Guys , need some advice from the photo experts on RC.
I want to purchase a nice Camera to take shots of the Family 80% of the time and my Tank 20% of the time. I don't want to spend more than $650 and I have been really drooling over the Olympus E-500 dual lens package. What do you guys think?

Would you get one or is there something better for the money?

Are there any compact cameras that can come close and match an SLR ?

Thanks for any info.

astrogazer · #2 05/24/2006, 08:56 PM

There are some amazing compacts out there and some equaly amazing images shared from thier users. The Fuji Finepix and Nikon Coolpix are two that stand out. They both have model lines to match all budgets; however to get the best in zoom and/or macro you need to head to the top of their lists.

I've seen some images from some (D)SLR users that were't much to speak of. A lot of the end result rests in how much you wish to invest of yourself in a learning curve, and just how steep you want that curve to be. And then of course there is the expense factor. With the 'compact' unit you'll spend the base price for the camera, maybe a couple of filters, lens adapters and maybe an additional strobe and you're done ($1000 or less). The (D)SLR route is totally expandable, so the sky's the limit on cost. You will at least need to have a couple of lenses to match the 'compact' setup above. Quality lenses can easily exceed the cost of the camera (each), and the BEST quality of these are usually almost a 'speciality' type lens that you will only use in a given set of circumstances. Not to mention that each lens can have its own learning curve to contend with.

I surely don't wish to 'scare you off' the DSLR thoughts, I love mine. If you're willing to invest the time to learn its basics I sure you can master either style.

As far as the olympus goes, I'm not a fan of the Kodak sensor, little noisy for me. I have never owned one, either SLR or DSLR. IMO you can't go wrong with the Nikon or the Cannon DSLR lines, both have quality entry level models. If you can possible afford it I would start one level up from the bottom of either line as you will grow into the feature sets. I'm a nikon fan myself, have been for over 30 years, buy I've owned a few Cannon's along the way.

Anyone remember when the first AE-1 came out, boy she was sweet.

Hope this helps you out a little...
Get a few others' opinions ...
... maybe an Olympus owner will chime in.

agrusczak · #3 05/24/2006, 09:12 PM

Spend a bit more and go for the Canon Digital Rebel XT. Definitely worth it. www.bhphotovideo.com is a great dealer

Sk8r · #4 05/24/2006, 09:45 PM

One really versatile lens can handle an amazing number of situations. I still, of course, lust after a macro lens, but in the meanwhile any camera that can accommodate a good general zoom can do your family things, vacation shots and still take good tank shots---if I can ever get this white balance bugaboo figured out.

beerguy · #5 05/24/2006, 09:46 PM

The problem with not going with the "big two" (nikon and canon) is that you're very limited in regard to expanding the system. You can pick up a Drebel XT for just over that these days and it would give you way more flexibility.

agrusczak · #6 05/24/2006, 10:08 PM

B&H has the Rebel XT with the 18-55 mm EF-S lens for $670 after rebate.

CodeToad · #7 05/24/2006, 11:48 PM

You mentioned the Olympus E-500 dual lens package on BH. It is a fantastic camera and not bad glass for the money at all!

If I were a casual photographer and given the choice between a E-500 or a Rebel XT that would be a no-brainer, the Olympus hands-down. A good friend of mine and a fantastic photographer has been on the Olympus SLR train for a while and now has the E-500, he is very pleased with it. Feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions, I'd be glad to help.

All three (Canon, Nikon, and Olympus) have their strengths and weaknesses, "Canons are too soft, Olympus are too noisy, and nobody can figure out how to turn their Nikon on"... All of cousre jokes and exagerations, you have to pick what fits your needs best.

21Reefman · #8 05/25/2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by astrogazer

Anyone remember when the first AE-1 came out, boy she was sweet.

I do! The AE-1 Programmable was my 1st camera!! I wish I still had it, it was stolen!

As far as what DSLR? I own the canon 20D, for the most part I love it. I was disappointed in the images until I spent $1,000 for an L series lens and the 100mm 2.8 macro ROCKS! I might get the RebelXT now, it was not out yet when I got mine.

I also love the nikkons, If I had the money this would have been first choice!

I hear great things on the Olympus, no personal expieriance.

RobbyG · #9 05/25/2006, 12:53 PM

Thanks guys for the advice, I still have some grey areas I need to sort out.

1) Astrogazer you seem like you have been working with both compact and SLR. I was wondering when you say "You need a couple of Lenses" what lenses would an SLR need to match a compact camera in the $300 - $500 range. This is what comes with the E-500 and I can get it for around $685.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...Fencoding=UTF8

Are the Macro pictures on Any Compact Camera going to be even close to the quality of an SLR like the E-500?

2) I was reading where some guys on a forum were saying that a full size SLR is very uncomfortable to travel with, they said it draws too much attention and stands out. Do you guys carry your SLR on trips or do you just use a compact?

3) Beerguy and Agrusczak
I was looking at the Rebel XT, its a sweet camera and gets better ratings than the E-500 but I really like the 2.5" LCD versus 1.8" on the XT. Also the E500 seems to have a lot more little doodads than the XT. Do you think the image quality on the XT is worth the tradeoffs?

4) Codetad does your friend take any Tank pictures with his E500? I would really love to see some if he has any.

I think my first main hurdle is to understand if I really do need an SLR to take good Tank pictures, if anyone has a great macro shot that they took with a Compact please send me a link.
BTW what is the best compact you can buy? Also whats the cheapest/best place to get cameras on the net?

Thanks for all the help guys.

CodeToad · #10 05/25/2006, 06:06 PM

I'm a Canon 10D user myself, have been for a long time now. When I travel on family vacations, etc, I take my Sony compact point and shoot.

Keep in mind when reading "ratings" on the Rebel XT vs. the Olympus the number of Rebel users and the popularity right now of the Canon gear. Like I said I have the 10D and I personally enjoy it very much. I have used the 20D, Rebel, Rebel XT, etc as well from friends. I still have my 10D and have not considered a new body, if that says anything to you.

My friend with the E-500 is a nature photographer, he isn't into aquariums at all. He had an Olympus E-1 before the 500. If you would like to see some of his work with the E-500 feel free to e-mail me. He's a fantastic photographer and has quite a nice portfolio of juried competitions, etc, I learn a lot from him.

To answer your final and most important question though, you do not need a DSLR to take fantastic aquarium photographs! I don't have any saved, but search for some of Gho's articles, I believe he has some example photographs that are fantastic, ranging from $100 dollar cameras to nice point and shoots.

To get a tad off topic, I am completely disappointed with how the big names in the DSLR market advertise and design products for. I read a full page ad in a magazine from Nikon that read "The best pictures you have ever taken without knowing what the heck your doing." That was really disappointing to me. It's true that you donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t need to be an expert photographer to use a DSLR these days, but I have seen many people, some here on RC, purchase and spend a large amount of money on a DSLR and lenses with no intention of really learning how to use the camera, and find themselves wondering why their shots are just as good/bad as with their compact point and shoot.

RobbyG · #11 05/26/2006, 01:18 PM

Thanks for the reply CodeToad. I was wondering about that and it's great to hear someone confirm my suspision that good Aquarium shots can be had with a compact. I remember the days when I had my 35mm Nikon Film Camera with 2 lenses, I would often leave it behind when going to events like parties or get togethers because it was just so cumbersome to carry and I was always fearfull of leaving the Bag somewhere or it getting stolen. With compacts there really is a certain appeal to being able to throw a camera in your shirt pocket

I still am thinking about the E-500 because maybe I can swing the dollars and get a compact also and give that to my wife so she can use it

that way I would have the best of both worlds. BTW What is the best compact you can buy?

CodeToad · #12 05/26/2006, 01:31 PM

I really don't know what the "best" compact out there is, I'm sure, like most things, some have strengths and weaknesses

Check out www.dpreview.com for some comparisons and such.

I forgot, but take a look at my website (click my little red house), there are three shots in my gallery that were taken with my compact Sony, I have a feeling you won't beable to figure out which ones

RobbyG · #13 05/26/2006, 08:41 PM

Took a look, very nice Macro shots. Your right I can't tell what was taken with a compact, please give me a hint

astrogazer · #14 05/26/2006, 09:03 PM

Codetad brought up a very good point. it's funny, I use to traverse the dpreview forums quite a bit. There are a lot of people that bought DSLR's because the were advertised to take higher quality images and anyone could shoot like a pro, they were disappointed because their images weren't going to be hanging in ANY gallery. A good photographer can take good shots with ANY camera.
While (D)SLR's have come along way over the years there is still a certain amount knowledge that is a prerequisite to getting consistently good shots. There is a 'recipe' or formula that applies to any camera, a point and shoot is kinda like using canned ingredients in the recipe, you can still get good results, but ...
As far as point and shoots goes, I guess my vote would go to the Finepix S9000, it has a awesome sensor with low S/N ratio, has a killer optical zoom range and the macro will simply blow you away. I recommended one to my friend and I have a blast with it. I really can't recommend buying ANY camera until you can get your hands on one, go to a store and feel it, take a couple of shots with it, even if you intend to go online later and buy it.
One last thing, the kit you we're looking at, you would probably want one more lens, a little longer, say in the 100-300mm range. That would round you out. You will, at some point want more flash, but that's an available option at any time. If you were really going to buy the DSLR I like the Nikons better, I know it's more money, but you'll be thankful every time you power it up ...

agrusczak · #15 05/26/2006, 10:13 PM

Check out the reviews of the XT and the E-500 at www.dpreview.com and www.steves-digicams.com. I used to be a huge fan of Olympus digital cameras, but lately it seems that the CCDs they are using are a bit noisy. The image quality of the XT is superb.

CodeToad · #16 05/26/2006, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RobbyG
Took a look, very nice Macro shots. Your right I can't tell what was taken with a compact, please give me a hint

I'll never tell!

Two of them are on my zoanthids page, but one of them happens to be one of my favorite shots.

I may take a look at that Fuji S9000 myself here someday, like I said I still get use from my compact P&S and my Sony is starting to show its age.

RobbyG · #17 05/27/2006, 11:56 AM

What compact camera did you use for the shot?

Quote:

Originally posted by CodeToad
I'll never tell! Two of them are on my zoanthids page, but one of them happens to be one of my favorite shots.

I may take a look at that Fuji S9000 myself here someday, like I said I still get use from my compact P&S and my Sony is starting to show its age.

RobbyG · #18 05/27/2006, 12:00 PM

Thanks I am checking out the s9000, I am now really starting to lean towards a compact. BTW I used SLR's for years and I know what you mean, if a person is not going to spend the time to learn how aperature and shutter speed interact and work they might as well buy a compact! Lord knows it's so much easier now, in the old days I had to blow rolls of film plus developement costs just to learn.

Quote:

Originally posted by astrogazer
Codetad brought up a very good point. it's funny, I use to traverse the dpreview forums quite a bit. There are a lot of people that bought DSLR's because the were advertised to take higher quality images and anyone could shoot like a pro, they were disappointed because their images weren't going to be hanging in ANY gallery. A good photographer can take good shots with ANY camera.
While (D)SLR's have come along way over the years there is still a certain amount knowledge that is a prerequisite to getting consistently good shots. There is a 'recipe' or formula that applies to any camera, a point and shoot is kinda like using canned ingredients in the recipe, you can still get good results, but ...
As far as point and shoots goes, I guess my vote would go to the Finepix S9000, it has a awesome sensor with low S/N ratio, has a killer optical zoom range and the macro will simply blow you away. I recommended one to my friend and I have a blast with it. I really can't recommend buying ANY camera until you can get your hands on one, go to a store and feel it, take a couple of shots with it, even if you intend to go online later and buy it.
One last thing, the kit you we're looking at, you would probably want one more lens, a little longer, say in the 100-300mm range. That would round you out. You will, at some point want more flash, but that's an available option at any time. If you were really going to buy the DSLR I like the Nikons better, I know it's more money, but you'll be thankful every time you power it up ...

CodeToad · #19 05/27/2006, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RobbyG
What compact camera did you use for the shot?

I used my Sony, a P-10 (I think). I'm sure they don't sell it anymore, and I'm sure there is much better out there now, I have had it for a while.

agrusczak · #20 05/27/2006, 05:05 PM

Royal Gramma, shot with Rebel XT and EF-S 17-85 mm lens, no flash, default settings. Image cropped but untouched.

agrusczak · #21 05/27/2006, 05:06 PM

False Percula Clown, taken with same camera and settings. You'd probably get the same results with the 18-55 EF-S kit lens.

RobbyG · #22 05/28/2006, 06:26 PM

Really Nice, thats exactly the kind of Photos I hope to take one day! Thanks for posting them Agrusczak.

opie · #23 05/28/2006, 09:54 PM

The last two images are a bit fuzzy - try selecting a single AF point and your shots will come out a lot better.

Something like this:

opie · #24 05/28/2006, 09:58 PM

Or these:

opie · #25 05/28/2006, 10:04 PM

By the way, if you want to get an SLR, know this: There is a much steeper learning curve than point and shoot cameras. For most people, it may be a few weeks before you start to see a significant improvement. For others it may just be just days.
Take your time and don't get bogged down in buying more lenses till you understand what they are for and you can afford the good stuff. Don't compromise - you will just end up upgrading eventually.

For most people, the Rebel XT along with 18-75 IS lens is an excellent combination.
A preferable alternate is the Rebel XT with kit lens and a Tamron 28-75/2.8 lens - that will give you a "fast" lens for freezing motion with kids easily.

I can recommend it either combination highly but I would personally prefer the second one.
Cheers!