[RGBMatt]

Originally posted by thehedge
Now I understand that the DLNR doesn't give the most uniform answers but that thas been the general consensus from the people that I have talked to.

You can say that again! My impression, based upon talking with informed people, was that if you catch something to eat vs putting it in a tank there's no difference between the two - the aquarium permit allows people to use otherwise prohibited gear. Since the aquarium permit is free there's no reason not to get one anyhow.

This is the sort of problem we have to deal a lot with at UH, where collecting stuff for research often requires permits where none are required for the general public.

I see that we agree with the importation of animals into Hawaii, but as for the exportation...I know that several species native to Hawaii is ok to remove from Hawaii by plane, but many species from the South Pacific are confiscated by the Dept of Agriculture unless you can prove that it was legally purchased and inspected upon arrival to Hawaii. Because this proof is nearly impossible to receive, they just tend to be confiscated. I have heard several cases of exportation problems with wrasses especially.

In practice, I don't think this happens a lot. I know a number of people who send fish to the mainland, and there doesn't seem to be much scrutiny. I think the DOA folks are better educated about terrestrial/freshwater organisms than on marine stuff.

As for the Sinularia, I will need to check John Hoover's book when I get home. I do know him personally so I can ask him regarding it when he comes back from a trip to the mainland. However, I dont find Keoki Stender's site the most accurate as to his ID process as he has misidentified certain species several times.

John has it listed as Sinularia too, but it's under a different species name than on Keoki's site. This species has been renamed a lot, and by now it's almost certainly called somethng else and may be under a different genus.

Pearl Harbor where they just strew over the ground and aren't actually in the rock. But then again, that is why I wont purchase a featherduster from either of them because Pearl Harbor has some pretty nasty toxins in the water...that I don't want in my fish tank.

I was under the impression that a lot of featherdusters came from Kaneohe bay, where collectors break up finger coral to get at them. Is diving in Pearl Harbor even allowed? I had thought that it wasn't.

I am generally talking about the use of Cyanide and explosives to destroy the reef. There actually are several fish collectors that use Cyanide to collect fish in Hawaii, however I will not name names. And when I refer to Coral Fish purchasing Cyanide caught fish, the majority of them are not from Hawaii.

I've seen collectors sawing up coral heads to get at fish, but never anybody using cyanide locally. If you do know collectors who use it, that's very sad

Furthermore, Modern makes sure that any fish purchased have gone through proper decompression. Coral Fish purchases fish that have been poked with a needle to decompress. There are few scientific studies as to detrimental impact of this, but it is well-known to fish collectors that proper decompression is necessary.

"Proper decompression" can mean different things depending who you ask.

It's my belief (and that of several very good collectors whom I know) that needling fish is usually better in the long run than staged deco. Leaving fish hanging in crowded buckets for hours is very stressful; IMO bringing them up as quickly as possible, relieving the pressure on their internal organs, and getting them into the holding tanks right away is easier on them in the long run. If the fish are properly held, the pinhole heals very quickly (usually less than a day) and won't be visible by the time the fish reach the shop. Obviously, it is possible to injure fish if they're pinned incorrectly so it's not surprising that the practice has a bad rap.

This is especially true for deep-water species, most of which cannot be properly collected without needles. Decompression times for these fish can be as long as several days! That isn't healthy for any fish and it's not surprising that many have poor survival records (eg Bandit Angels).

I know one collector who religiously pins his fish and does sell to Modern Pet. He is a brilliant diver and his fish have the best survival rate I've seen. IMO when it comes to healthy fish, care while handling and holding are more important than the method of decompression.

I see so many fish collectors here that have their eyes on the money and not about the land. I have been on several dives where I see divers using a knife to scrape an entire colony of beautiful zoos off the rock....or others who use the "fish vacuum", basically a vacuum cleaner that sucks up water into a mesh net carrier in the back to capture the fish. This machine basically kills fish in the long-run because of the stress that it puts the fish through.

I've seen vaccum devices used by shell collectors, but never for catching fish. I can't even imagine what the fish must look like afterwards!

Most collectors I know are very sensetive to overexploiting their "spots" and taking care of what they catch, which makes sense because their own livelihoods are on the line. It's the minority that doesn't care who spoil things for the rest of us.

IMO stiffer regulations would be a good thing, as long as they're designed to maintain the fishery and not sell out to tourism.

I was offended, maybe because I am slightly over sensitive about the subject, but because it sounded like you are saying that locals don't care about about what you are collecting.

No worries! I'm sure that if I were pulling out huge numbers of fish when I went diving, people would raise their eyebrows a bit.

I've also seen divers coming back and bragging loudly about fish they've caught (both aquarium and food fish) - this never gets a good response from anybody, myself included.

Oddly enough, I've found that much of the time when I've been diving, I get asked whether or not I caught anything, followed by blank stares when I explain that it was just for fun. A lot of people don't seem to understand that you don't have to kill fish to enjoy yourself diving.

One fish in particular that is considered sacred is the Dragon Wrasse. There is a Hawaiian legend that actually depicts the Dragon Wrasse as an embodied form of one of their gods. If you go to the Bishop Museum and look in their Hawaiian artifacts you can see pictures of the Dragon Wrasse in several items.

Hmm - that's interesting. I don't think most Hawaiians know this sort of stuff, though.