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Originally posted by emilye2
Catdoc-I'm honestly not trying to be a smart aleck here...And since it's the written word and not face to face I want to be sure you know I'm not being sarcastic, I'm honestly curious. How do wild dogs (wolves, coyotes, etc) or feral dogs manage to handle things like e. coli?
Second attempt at a reply, I can't believe I lost the first draft! Emily, no offense taken and it's a subject that triggers pretty powerful opinions on both sides so an open dialogue is good. I'll do my best to present the basis of my decision-making.
As for how wild canids handle E. coli and other pathogens in their diets: some die, the tough ones survive and evolution selects for them. Weak immune systems don't last long enough to be reproduced. On the other hand, humans have spent the past several thousand years selecting dogs for breeding based on coat colors, size/conformation of dog, ability to chase/herd/fight...not for strength of their immune systems. Domestic dogs are 15 to 100 thousand years removed from their wild ancestors, considerable outward changes have been effected since then. Would it be surprising to find that their internal workings aren't identical too?
It just seems to me that there is enough logic behind the raw diet (after all you don't see them feeding tigers in the zoo Meow Mix in a bowl) that it shouldn't be dismissed across the board by vets.
The raw meat being fed to the tiger does have nutritional supplements in it, so it wouldn't pass the rigors of a true RAW or BARF devotee. The diet also has been constructed and analyzed, and if needed, reformulated for the individual's needs by a veterinary nutritionist. It's not just whatever looks natural, but a very precise feeding. I wouldn't want the tiger eating it in my house anyway, the risk of a food-borne infection to me wouldn't be worth it even if it is the tiger's natural diet. (Must be why I don't have a pet tiger...LOL) Also, the tiger in the zoo is genetically identical to the tiger in the wild, there hasn't been any human selection/domestication to change it so I think it's safe to say that his body is designed to tolerate the same diet as a wild tiger, unless he has other health concerns. (They manage tigers in kidney failure, with arthritis, and other health problems in the zoo although in the wild, these animals wouldn't even survive so even the zoo's diet of raw meats isn't "natural".)
I have a friend who's aussie has severe arthritis in her elbows. Not much you can do for that but manage it. At 6 she's got a lot of years ahead of her so avoiding meds until absolutely necessary is a priority. She's given her a coated aspirin at night when needed and has her on the highest dose of MSM and glucosamine she can get. She recently switched to a grain free diet and even with several days of vigorous exercise hasn't needed to give her an aspirin. The ONLY thing that's changed in her environment has been the diet.
That's interesting. I wonder if maybe there is a food allergy at play here? Has she compared the protein sources from the commercial food to the new grain-free diet? It may have been a beef/chicken/egg/?? allergy and the new food lacks the allergen. I am not aware of food allergy causing arthritis, but I can follow the logic that the inflammation could be the trigger. She may want to compare labels and see if there are any meat sources that differ as I've seen the strongest allergic reactions to the meat sources. If she's really brave, then she could challenge the dog with single sources of protein to see which one specifically is the trigger.
There is just so much out there that isn't known about canine nutrition that it bothers me when something that seems to come from a natural place is so quickly dismissed as an option.
"Natural" isn't the problem, "uncooked" and "imbalanced" are the bigger concerns. "Natural" isn't inherently safer (digitalis flowers are natural but deadly toxic), healthier (feral dogs have shorter lifespans than housedogs), or without risks (raw meats can be carriers of parasites and bacteria). I think the key is, no matter what you choose, that you ensure that it is as nutritionally balanced as possible. If you choose to feed a non-commercial food, be sure that the recipe is nutritionally complete and not just "natural".
My first version was so much more eloquent...
