Emerald Crab DEAD!!!
 

Right after acclimation, he just started what looked like a seizure!

I dripped him for about an hour. Lights were off.

Looked fine at store, he was moving and everything.


Help?

Do you have any other livestock in the setup?

Test water params?

Params are perfect.

He died about 30 minutes after acclimation.

The pep shrimp I bought tonight is perfectly fine.

The other livestock includes- 2 chromis and CUC




I'm so confused.

could u list params please. How long did u acclimate? How did u acclimate?

Dripped (about 3-5 drops a second, slowly increased as time when on....)him for over an hour.


All param's are 0.

Ph-8.2
Cal- ~400
Alk- 8-10
Phosphates - .2, if that.

Could have just been stress.

Yeah, i'm not too upset over 5 bucks.

It was eventful, and my huge Nassarius' are loving him right about now. ;)

Yay for 24 hour guarantee's!!

Whoa! $5. My LFS charges $12 for most invertebrate.

How could your nitrates be 0?
$5 is cheap!

You don't have to bring the carcass in for the guarantee?
If so, don't let the nassies eat im...

Yeah our store isn't bad with fish/invert prices. I just wish the $5 Crab actually lived though. I'd pay $12 if it would mean he would live. Ha.

Yes, I do need a carcass to bring back in, but the nass can't/didn't eat the whole shell.

Nitrates are 0 because I maintain/care for my tank. Plus it's rather established with a 5 inch sand bad. Not surprising. Ha.

lol, I maintain/care for my tank, too.

I just wondered what you used to export your nitrates...but if your 5 inch sandbed does it that's nice...

...or your test kit is old...

...or you just have that one fish...

*I wasn't surprised, just curious because you don't have a skimmer and are only using .5lb/gal of LR*

I agree with mope, you will never zero nitrates, that is impossible. No matter what system you employ, chemically the nitrates will not completely convert to N2 as the series of organic decomposition reactions are not perfect will fluctuate between favoring reactants and products. From non-chemisty perspective, those test kits are very unaccurate, using color to tell differences is IMO a bad way to test the concentration of something that exists in the ppm range.

On a personal note [B]cockfield[/B], that was a very condescending, unfriendly tone. Not welcomed by anyone here.

You need to drip until the salinity in the bag and the tank is matched. It could take up to 2 hrs depending on how far apart the salinitys are. The crab was not acclimated properly and died of the inbalance in their body. Just a FYI in the future. Inverts are more sensitive to this kind of thing.

The seizure right after you put it into the tank is when the invert is in complete shock from inadequate acclimation.

Jimbo,
I usually just toss crabs and snails in my tank...if they're adversely affected, will they die right away or could they last a few days and then slowly die off?

Is there a formula or general rule of thumb for how long a drip should last relative to the delta between the salinity in the bag and the tank?

If improper acclimation could account for a few snail deaths a few days and up to a week later, I'll drip em for a few hours...but I'm mostly curious before I bring my shark home since I was told by one of the employees that their shark tank salinity is super low and I use NSW (with pretty high salinity).

You should drip until the salinity are the same. Then once they are matching, allow another 15 - 30 minutes for the fish to adjust to the salinity. Inverts and snails are especially sensitive to this as described by Dr. Ron in one of the previous monthly reefkeeping volumes. I think he goes into detail why the salinity imbalance will kill the invert.

Now whether at what level salinity is good for the fish is another subject.

But yes, it will die quite rapidly if the difference in salinity is large. It will basically lock up and look like it is going into seizure. Usually, after 15 minutes, it will die. If the salinity is close, then it depend on the animal if it will survive, some are hardier than others. But it is not difficult to use a hydrometer or refractometer to match the water in the tank and bag to check it out before one releases an animal/coral into the tank. And it will save you a ton of $$$ and save the animal, and cost you a few more minutes to do.

Proper acclimation is one of the most important thing to do when getting a new animal.

As for the shark, you need to find out which salinity is preferred by the shark, and you will take longer to acclimate, but if you use the drip method, it's no big deal, just takes more time. Good luck on the shark.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10052128#post10052128 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mfp1016 [/i]
[B]I agree with mope, you will never zero nitrates, that is impossible. No matter what system you employ, chemically the nitrates will not completely convert to N2 as the series of organic decomposition reactions are not perfect will fluctuate between favoring reactants and products. From non-chemisty perspective, those test kits are very unaccurate, using color to tell differences is IMO a bad way to test the concentration of something that exists in the ppm range.

On a personal note [B]cockfield[/B], that was a very condescending, unfriendly tone. Not welcomed by anyone here. [/B][/QUOTE]


Well you took my text in the completely wrong way.
Not that big of a deal, but sorry for your stress and sorry to everyone I have seemed to offended.

I normally start with 1-2 drips a second...

wasn't offended here :) My 3 tanks and my wife's test at zero too

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10078583#post10078583 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DouglasTiede [/i]
[B]wasn't offended here :) My 3 tanks and my wife's test at zero too [/B][/QUOTE]

:) Pretty sure it's not impossible....but I can understand where he is coming from. Look at all the Tanks of the Months' Specs.....they usually say UNDETECTABLE! Oh well...

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10078514#post10078514 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cockfield [/i]
[B]Well you took my text in the completely wrong way.
Not that big of a deal, but sorry for your stress and sorry to everyone I have seemed to offended. [/B][/QUOTE]

Don't sweat it man. Anyone that thinks they can tell the tone of something on an internet is fooling themselves.

Is it just me or are there a lot of people on this forum that need to lighten up a little?

As for the crab, it could very well be PH, dKH, or SG related, perhaps a combo of all 3. Crustaceans should be acclimated just like a fish would since they can react adversely to changes in the 3 parameters listed above.

Yeah I've noticed quite the same thing you are referring to.

It's like the aquarium hobby is taken SO seriously sometimes and people get offended by the slightest comment. I mean I do understand the impact and whatnot from this hobby and can understand why people could get like that, but sometimes man.....

But yeah...I will definitely keep everyones tips in mind next time.
I've actually just acclimated 2 Perc Clowns(it was a pair for 45).
I dripped them for like 2 hours while I was on this, and I actually waited until the S.G. was exact.



Sooo i'm hoping for the best here!\

Thanks again to everyone though.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10052128#post10052128 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mfp1016 [/i]
[B]I agree with mope, you will never zero nitrates, that is impossible. No matter what system you employ, chemically the nitrates will not completely convert to N2 as the series of organic decomposition reactions are not perfect will fluctuate between favoring reactants and products. From non-chemisty perspective, those test kits are very unaccurate, using color to tell differences is IMO a bad way to test the concentration of something that exists in the ppm range.

[/B][/QUOTE]

whooooo I need to reread this because I am V-E-R-Y S-L-O-W:spin3:

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10052128#post10052128 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mfp1016 [/i]
[B]I agree with mope, you will never zero nitrates, that is impossible. No matter what system you employ, chemically the nitrates will not completely convert to N2 as the series of organic decomposition reactions are not perfect will fluctuate between favoring reactants and products. From non-chemisty perspective, those test kits are very unaccurate, using color to tell differences is IMO a bad way to test the concentration of something that exists in the ppm range.

On a personal note [B]cockfield[/B], that was a very condescending, unfriendly tone. Not welcomed by anyone here. [/B][/QUOTE]

I didnt think his tone was condescending.

If you take care of your tank, your nitrates will be zero. It IS that simple.

A dsb is not the only way to remove nitrates.... fuge, skimming, bacteria removal, etc.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10052128#post10052128 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mfp1016 [/i]
[B]I agree with mope, you will never zero nitrates, that is impossible. No matter what system you employ, chemically the nitrates will not completely convert to N2 as the series of organic decomposition reactions are not perfect will fluctuate between favoring reactants and products. [/B][/QUOTE]

Perhaps your just ignorant but many of us achieve 0 nitrates. Some of us even have to add nitrates to get certain stock to prosper.

I have 0 nitrates on my 65g and on my 20g. My 65g has 130lbs of LR that was cooked, part of it buried in a DSb during the cooking, and the anaerobic bacteria was fed during the process. It runs a DIY protein skimmer, a remote DSB, and a generous portion of macro algae in the display. It houses about 12 zoo colonies, and a bi color blenny as well as two snails.

My 20g also 0 nitrates has just over 100lbs of rock between the display and the sump, macro algae in the sump, a remote DSB, a Remora protein skimmer and houses 17 corals, 5 snails, a clam, an emerald crab, and a pink spotted watchman goby. Rock was also cooked before setup.

Both tanks get RODI water for top offs and salt mixes. I do a water change once a month, sometimes once every two months. Both tanks are fed heavily, especially the 20g which recieves one cube of mysis, a cap full of DT's, and a piece of brine shrimp daily.

JME with zro nitrates.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10079720#post10079720 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pledosophy [/i]
[B]Perhaps your just ignorant but many of us achieve 0 nitrates. Some of us even have to add nitrates to get certain stock to prosper.

I have 0 nitrates on my 65g and on my 20g. My 65g has 130lbs of LR that was cooked, part of it buried in a DSb during the cooking, and the anaerobic bacteria was fed during the process. It runs a DIY protein skimmer, a remote DSB, and a generous portion of macro algae in the display. It houses about 12 zoo colonies, and a bi color blenny as well as two snails.

My 20g also 0 nitrates has just over 100lbs of rock between the display and the sump, macro algae in the sump, a remote DSB, a Remora protein skimmer and houses 17 corals, 5 snails, a clam, an emerald crab, and a pink spotted watchman goby. Rock was also cooked before setup.

Both tanks get RODI water for top offs and salt mixes. I do a water change once a month, sometimes once every two months. Both tanks are fed heavily, especially the 20g which recieves one cube of mysis, a cap full of DT's, and a piece of brine shrimp daily.

JME with zro nitrates. [/B][/QUOTE]

I ran into the same problem with undetectable levels where my SPS started loosing color. Now I added quite a bit of fish and feed several times a day and colors came back and some pieces even look better.

Also I ushually toss my snails and crabs without acclimating and don't think I ever lost one doing so. The crabs usually take off and hide and the snails start eating away. HTH!