! HD play sand in coffe grinder !
 

Okay, so I've been looking for a cheap sand to get a 4-5" DSB in my 110g acrylic. The problem is, I want something w/ good grain size and not silicate based (not so much for buffering, but mainly so I don't wreck my acrylic tank). Color wasn't a priority, but I'd rather have something whiter. After looking around at Petco, Petsmart, LFSs, HD, and Lowes I finally found something that I think will work for me. I couldn't find Southdown or equivalent, or the pulverized limestone. I did find some brown and nice white silicate sands at Lowes (I'll post pics later), a silicate sand at Petco, and Caribsea and oolitic Meridian aragonite sands at Pet Smart and LFSs. But what did find that seems like the best bet (but not going to cost me $300 for sand) is the white play sand at HD. It comes in the same packaging as a brown Quickrete silicate sand at Lowe's, but this sand is larger granules and kind of translucent white. It looks kind of fake and I think the granules are too large and uniform. I believe others have referred to this sand by a specific name but I can't remember off the top of my head. Anyhow, I tried the vinegar tests on some samples of each sand that I found, and besides the ones labeled aragonite (over $1/lb.), this was the only sand that passed (and completely too). I also chewed on it and it easily crumbled; which got me to thinking - what if I put it in a coffee grinder to reduce the grain size and give more variance to the uniformity. Here's the results:

HD play sand before grinding (passes vinegar test):
[IMG]http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/586/145778HDunground.jpg[/IMG]

HD play sand after grinding (passes vinegar test):
[IMG]http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/586/145778HDground.jpg[/IMG]

And for comparison, here's some Nature's Ocean sand purchased from Petco for $.80/lb. The kicker is, this didn't pass the vinegar test!:
[IMG]http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/586/145778naturesocean.jpg[/IMG]

I think the Nature's Ocean looks a little bit better, it's not so translucent. But, it's silicate based and costs WAY more. What do you all think? My plan is to grind this sand up with varying levels of grinding. Can anyone comment on the best way to achieve a mix of grain size that's ideal for a DSB for a reef? If it doesn't look good, I may mix in a bag or two of either CaribSea or Meridian oolitic. Probably I'd go with the CaribSea (non-sugar sized) and have that sitting as a top layer (assuming that there's no problem with that if added at the same time as the bottom layer). The non-sugar size would be better since it would be on the top layer.

Anything Silicate= Chronic Algae Bloom. Especially brown algae.

I would reccommend only using a sand that's made specifically for SW/Reef, like Caribsea, because silicate isn't the only possible contaminant you would have to worry about. It may cost more upfront but it will save $ in the long run because you won't discover later that you should've bought SW/Reef safe sand and then turnaround and pay the price you didn't want to pay upfront on top of what you've already paid! In my experience, I've learned my lesson the hard way, Don't make my mistake (lose time and $$$$$$), buy the right stuff the first time!!!!
It will be worth it.

Good Luck!

Looks like way too much work. You'll probably wear out your grinder before you are barely started. Also, your grains look sharp and angular compared to Aragonite, Southdown type sand. Some of the very small animals that live in the sand bed might object to the sharp edges. Just my opinion, but I'd go bare bottom before grinding in a coffee grinder.

I would use play sand or silica sand.

Rare are those with algae bloom because of sand, it's quarzt and inert.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9454275#post9454275 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjj80 [/i]
[B]Anything Silicate= Chronic Algae Bloom. Especially brown algae.

I would reccommend only using a sand that's made specifically for SW/Reef, like Caribsea, because silicate isn't the only possible contaminant you would have to worry about. It may cost more upfront but it will save $ in the long run because you won't discover later that you should've bought SW/Reef safe sand and then turnaround and pay the price you didn't want to pay upfront on top of what you've already paid! In my experience, I've learned my lesson the hard way, Don't make my mistake (lose time and $$$$$$), buy the right stuff the first time!!!!
It will be worth it.

Good Luck! [/B][/QUOTE]

while some algae will feed on silicates, silica based sand does not leach silicates into the water unless its under severe pressure. i have been running silica base sand from Lowes with absolutely no algae problems due to the sand. i had a normal diatom bloom at the start, but it quickly went away. diatoms must have silicates to live, which is why in most peoples tanks they are short lived. its also another reason to only use RO/DI water. that is the most common source for silicates in the water. dont know why it did work for you, but silica sand works for a lot of people on here.

I too, have always used silica/quartz sand in my tanks without any problems other than the initial diatom bloom, which quickly disappears.

I look at it this way, since roughly 90-95% (give or take a percent) of the ocean's floor is silica/quartz sand and silica/quartz is the most common compound on earth... what's good enough for Mother Nature is good enough for me. :D

BTW, some of the best live sand on the market ([url=http://www.tbsaltwater.com/]Tampa Bay Saltwater[/URL]) is... ... ... guess what??? Silica/quartz based from the Gulf Of Mexico!

Re: ! HD play sand in coffe grinder !
 

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9454055#post9454055 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Saddler [/i]
[B].......what if I put it in a coffee grinder to reduce the grain size and give more variance to the uniformity. .......[/B][/QUOTE]

300lbs through a coffee grinder? I love the concept, but you must have one hell of a grinder or godlike patience.

! HD play sand in coffee grinder !
 

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MusMusculus [/i]
[B]300lbs through a coffee grinder? I love the concept, but you must have one hell of a grinder or godlike patience. [/B][/QUOTE]
And if it's a manual grinder, arms the size of most people's legs! :eek1: :lmao:

I wonder if this would work for crushed coral????

I think Saddler understands that silica based sand is not an issue as far as leeching goes. He does however have a point about it scratching his acrylic. FWIW It seems that the "sharp" sand your grinding down will have the same scratching ability as silica sand.

I don't know jack about sand chemistry or any of that but the sand from the coffer grinder looks like little shards of glass where as the other stuff it more rounded.

My thinking was that with acrylic, the soft nature of this sand will be beneficial. I mean, you can easily chew on this stuff - silicate sand would never crumble under the same pressure.

I don't have a ruler around, can someone tell me the approximate grain size of the unground grains in the first pic?

A dime has a diameter of 17.91 mm. That picture doesn't give me a diameter, but looking at a dime here that region is about 16mm at the longest section of the dime in the pic (434 pixels), so about 27 pixels per mm. Most of the grains I measured there were 20-35 pixels long, so 0.75mm to 1.3mm grain size.

Heh, leave it to a microbiologist.

Thanks MusMusculus!

I actually need somewhere around 250lb., and I would obviously want to keep some of the grains at their natural size. Can someone point me to a breakdown of the ultimate desired breakdown for grain size percentages?

I used soutdown in my last tank but, the stuff is not to be found anymore. I used sakrete premium grade natural sand from Lowes on this tank and noticed no differance then the southdown. No differance in the alge or anything else. Works fine and costs next to nothing. If you need 250 lbs of sand that's about a pound per coffee grinder. Humm 250 coffee grinders could run into a lot of cash!!

Maybe putting the grinded (sp?) sand into a rotating drum with maybe a few larger larger and/or denser stones that will be easy to remove will polish the sand enough to remove all those bad sharp edges?

Just a thought. No clue if this will work on this scale.

HTH.

After looking at the Caribsea reef floor sand, I've decided to put 80lbs of it on the top layer, and maybe 30lbs of Caribsea sugar oolitic below that, and then the mixed grain coffee ground calcium play sand below. Or maybe I'll mix the oolitic w/ the reef floor and have that as a top layer above the mixed play sand.

For the curious; a small, cheap toastermaster coffee grinder can grind 45 lb. of calcium based play sand before self destructing.

I also think that the first photo of the unground sand isn't an accurate representation of the grain size. That was grabbed from a pinch that I brought home in my pocket for evaluation, so when I grabbed it out only the largest particles got yanked.