This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: [url]http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=8582652#post8582652[/url]

Another cool post as of late - another good vid of the Mandarin mating dance.

[url]http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=976645[/url]

Matt

WHOOA a SPLIT THREAD?

Whacky!

A "Split Thread" should get an addemdum like "Part II" added to the thread title or something!

Matt

[b]11-20-06, 1:38 AM, WE HAVE A SPAWN![/b]

Admittedly, I've taken about a month off from even bothering to watch for spawns. It's been a WELCOME break from the late night routine of turning off pumps, getting out of bed to check periodically for eggs, or sleeping mandarins.

I knew I was going to be up late tonight with an urgent project for work, so I took the opportunity to see if Pair #1 was still even bothering with spawning! Sure enough, they are, although I only observed a FEW eggs. Bottom line, there wasn't nearly enough to bother with and I'm not sure WHY...I THINK I may have overlooked the spawn earlier on when I briefly turned on the pumps (to remove surface scum). My other hypothesis is that they spawned in the caulerpa that's growing at the surface, as this is where I found the only small clumps of eggs...a mear bundle of 2 is all I initially found (which is what sent me into a tizzy search for more eggs).

My mandarin larval tank project isn't quite ready yet...not the burgeoning copepod population I'm looking for, and of course, with the GBG's surpassing my personal survival record today, and another imminent batch of clownfish, the Synchiropus attempts may be on hold a little while longer ;)

That's the news...

Matt

Hi,

I sent you some feeding density references a while ago.

Was not sure what densities you were feeding at so I thought I would pass on the information and ask at the same time.

Westcott, HMM, not sure I saw those density references. I'm not really measuring density, all I can really say is that in most rearing attempts, the density is likely sufficient.

FWIW,

Matt

The feeding density seems to affect success rates. Feeding too much is as bad as feeding too little. I listed the reference but I am unable to find my way back to the original thread since it was split. If you can find your way back, you will find the Moe reference for densities.

I was poking around some of the old "Advanced Aquarist" articles and came across some good information that you may want to dig into.

Although it appears counter-intuitive, it turns out that growth and survival can be equally reduced by a lack of food OR an over-abundance of food! The experiments revealed that the highest survival and growth of fish larvae was obtained by maintaining an approximate ratio of 10 rotifers per milliliter for densities between 25 and 50 fish larvae per liter (Tamaru et al. 1991).

Here is a link to the complete article of December 2003 on nutritional value of live foods.


[url]http://advancedaquarist.com/issues/dec2003/invert.htm[/url]

Keep up the good work

Any new news for us? I finally finished reading the entire thread(41 pages) and I feel like I have put a book down half way through.. Only difference is that this one hasn't finished being written yet.

The only news is that I've had success raising the Greenbanded Gobies through Metamorphasis and now have 20 or so baby adults of those. Considering that their larvae are significantly smaller than clownfish, that's a step in the right direction. I think I've said it before, but the most likely route will be to again attempt the Apogon leptacanthus to get them past the 45 day mark, and then back to the mandarins, in the meantime also perfecting my rearing of the Onyx Percs to help pay for this all in 2007 ;)

Matt

nice work woth the gobies! Keep it up!

Nothing new to report on the Mandarin front EXCEPT that my Nannochloris phyto culture is coming along nicely and ready to split into 2 cultures. Pod cultures as of late have diminished but there's still enough to get a tank started when I'm ready (which could be soon). It's a tossup between trying Apogon leptacanthus again, or perhaps doing another batch of Greenbanded Gobies, or utilizing the space for another batch of percula clownfish. Basically too many fish breeding and not enough tanks to rear them in. I'm probably at least 2-4 weeks off from being READY to try the mandarins again. Meanwhile, both pair #1 and #2 are doing well...Fatboy is still HUGE and has trouble keeping his weight up, but he's finally overcome the various maladies afflicting him since his introduction. Things are looking good!

Matt

I look forward to your future breeding efforts, I read every page in this thread and I would love to finish the story... :)

~Chris

[b]1-1-07[/b] - with a newly-vacant larval tank I turned my attention back to the Mandarins this evening. After lights out, I turned off the filtration in both tanks and kinda watched / listened. Both females are definitely "ripe"...fat and ready to spawn, so there was at least a fair chance, maybe 25%, that I'd get a double spawn tonight. Heck, I'd work with that many eggs!

Well, Pair #1 botched their spawning attempt...I heard a splash and looked into the tank to discover Male #1 stuck between the surface skimmer and the side of the tank, his head stuck out of the water. I got him out and he "fluttered" down to the bottom kinda backwards and diagonally, his head still pointed towards the surface of the tank. I took my eyes off him for a second and when I looked back, I couldn't find him. I'm assuming he's now recovered from this small trauma (don't know how long he was stuck there) and sleeping somewhere well hidden. We'll find out tomorrow I guess.

Pair #2 also courted and I think tried to spawn, but nothing actually happened. I've since found both Fatboy and Female #2 asleep, so that's that for tonight.

The larval tank is empty with nothing in it other than clean water being brought up to temperature. I may watch again tomorrow night in the hopes of a double spawn..why not, right? I honestly had planned to utilize the empty larval tank for another Batch of Percula larvae (especially since I just killed 5-10 out of 49 from Batch VI), but maybe I'll get some Mandarins going, at least just to see how hatch rates are (as you know, I haven't bothered for a couple months now)...

FWIW,

Matt

1-3-07 - Pair 2 was again splashing around at the water's surface this evening but once again, no spawn to show for it!

Matt

1-5-07, Pair #1 is courting and the lights aren't even off yet - the female is FAT and definitely showing interest. Since I just filled my 2nd larval tank with 200+ baby percs, I probably won't be rearing yet, but I MAY spend the time to collect the eggs and see what kind of hatch rate I get..it's been a WHILE now (2-3 months) since I bothered...

Matt

No spawn tonight...they decided to go to sleep instead. I can't help but wonder if the Black Ocellaris who share their tank are causing them distrubance (often I find the Black OC's at the tanks surface during the early nighttime hours)...

Matt

Your my hero lol

[b]1-7-07[/b] - Sad news - I just found our #2 Male, FATBOY, dried up on the floor :(

Guess I'm looking for ANOHTER new male mandarin!

Matt

It's a sad evening for Female #2 - as the lights went out, and her Red Scooter Blenny tankmates are courting, female #2 went up into the water column in search of her mate...obviously found no one (but I guess I'll have to find her a new mate soon :( )

Pair #1 is just going about their business, they *may* spawn tonight...some preliminary evening displays going on but no rising yet.

FWIW,

Matt

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8919433#post8919433 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mwp [/i]
[B][b]1-7-07[/b] - Sad news - I just found our #2 Male, FATBOY, dried up on the floor :(

Guess I'm looking for ANOHTER new male mandarin!

Matt [/B][/QUOTE]

WHY GOD WHY

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8919433#post8919433 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mwp [/i]
[B][b]1-7-07[/b] - Sad news - I just found our #2 Male, FATBOY, dried up on the floor :(

Guess I'm looking for ANOHTER new male mandarin!

Matt [/B][/QUOTE]

Blargh.

Sorry to hear that. It always baffles me that they are jumpers, but I've lost a pair that way too.

Hmm, very sad. :( Hey what size tank are they in, and was there any particular method you used to get them to take to the formula one pellets? My solo male seems interested in the prime reef flakes I feed, and already eats mysis. But Im trying to find another way to get him nice and fully plump, while getting him a mate that is fully plump, without having to culture trigger pods.

ACK, I didn't even post that I got a replacement for Male #2 last week! He was a fresh import, basically straight out of the bag. Let's hope. Meanwhile, the female and ONLY the female in Pair #1 is LOADED with ICH...I had a total meltdown of sorts in their tank...a literal explosion a couple days ago. I'm going nuts with water changes to dilute free swimming parasites and threw my spare UV on the tank...there's already a cleaner shrimp in there too but the mandarin is stayin' the hell away! I dealt with this once before and it took a LONG time with the tank that housed Pair #2 (Fatboy actually brought the ICH into the tank in the first place, don't ask me how the heck it showed up in Pair #1's tank, I did make a new addition but I also know that it likely was NOT the source).

Divaman, I got REALLY lucky with "Fatboy"..he took pellets from Day 1 (well, actually probably Day 2). "Fatboy" had been a long term captive and customer return...no doubt HE learned about pellet foods long before he came to me.

The Red Scooter Blennies just seemed to "pick it up" as well. Meanwhile, I'm still not 100% sure that the #1 pair of mandarins have taken to pellets, although it seems like female #2 is taking them, I think watching the RSB's and Fatboy helped her figure it out.

The one thing I HAVE tried, although admittedly not with any dedication, is to add pellets into the feeding station along with the frozen foods that they eat. This would be my #1 suggestion...get them trained on frozen, get them trained on a feeding station, and they make the connection that feeding station = food. In my guestimate, it's a small leap in a mandarin's brain that anything showing up within the feeding station *could* be food, especially if other known food items are also present...from their they just have to get used to eating it.

If I was REALLY trying to get them to eat pellets, I would also fast them a day a week, and then make sure that on the break-fast day the FIRST FOOD offered up is the pellets. Hunger is a strong motivator, even if you don't eat like a grouper!

Anxiously awaiting the time when I don't need to raise percs (to pay for the hobby during Renee's student teaching months) so I can get back to really trying to raise the mandarins. I may have a good solution actually, as someone is interested in taking my percs at 30 days and growing them out...sure it's a reduced price sale, but it generates income and may be enough to keep one tank open for "experimenting"....we'll see how it works out!

FWIW,

Matt

One more quick question, nearly the only food my mandarin gets is mysis, he picks the occasional pod once in a while, but he litterally destroyed my pod population. I really just try to make sure he gets enough, and I am not sure he recognizes teh mysis as food unless it is moving sightly. I think Ill try the brine method you used. So from what you said teh only way to keep a pair, letalone two in a small tank, is too feed a lot?