can't keep my fish alive!
 

hi, am writing in hopes of getting some information on what i need to do to keep my fish from dying of ich, or atleast i think that is what it is. i have a 150 gallon reef tank with about 70 pounds of live rock, a emporor 400 filter and a super skimmer protien skimmer. my corals are doing great and my live rocks are developing very nice, nitrates a little high but other than that my water is fine. the only fish i have been able to keep alive for more than a month is a chainlink eel, i guess the only reason he lived is because of his inability to get ick, or so i think. so far i have lost 1 blue jaw trigger, panther grouper, 2 clown fish, 2 yellow tangs and 3 purple tangs and a lion tang, some of those were in there before the reef came of course. It is really frustrating too keep buying fish and having them die. I Feed them galic elixer when i see signs of ick but it never seems to faze them. I have also tried fresh water dips but had no luck.I have thought of getting a shark or a ray and put in there just so i wont lose a fish to ick, but then i would have to get rid of my corals, i think, and i really want to keep it a reef tank. I found a chemical that i could treat the water with but it is not reef safe or liverock safe. so i cant put that in the water. Im really curious if anyone else has lost so many fish due to ick or if im doing something wrong. I would really appreciate any help anybody could give me. thanks, seth

Ever consider a quarantine tank?

[moved]

Do you run a UV sterilizer? There is much debate on using these. I run a 25watt on my 72gal and have never had ich. Coincidence?

A little more information is needed by these fine folks to give you a truely educated answer.

You say your nitrates are a little high. What is the measurement?
Your water is fine? What are the parameters?
Objective measurements are better than subjective descriptions.

Just trying to help.

I had the same type of problem in my reef tank. I had a hob filter a uv and a skimmer. I had fish always dying of ich. I switched from a hob filter to a sump, lowered my salt lever to 1.025 from 1.026 and bumped the temp up to 81 from 78 slowly of course. It seemed to help a lot. I did sell the tank a few months after so I have no long term feedback but I did not lose anymore fish in the 3/4 months that I did have the tank. Higher temp and lower salinity is good for fending off diease.

Well getting 2 or 3 cleaner shrimp and a neon goby would HELP. It's not the sollution mind you but it sure would help. .

I have never quarantined any of my fish (but I know the people at my LFS and they quarantine for 2 weeks and I usually watch a fish for 2 weeks before I buy it). . The only ich I have ever had was when I initially put my coral beauty in there she developed a few spots. But that went anway and I haven't seen it since. Now that I read the post above maybe my higher temp helps their immune system. It's constantly 81 in my tank.

IMO, if you are going to have tangs, a fish that are very prone to ICH. You should deffinatly have a cleaner shrimp, no question. As it can help fish with minor ich problems.

My cleaner shrimp did try to clean the ich up but it was no match for a full out dying fish. I have heard that gobies will nip the ich cyst of the fish as Teremei is saying.

Yes it's true, cleaner shrimp, neon gobies, even peppermint shrimp tend to clean but rarely. A cleaner shrimp is no solution for a dying fish. .

But a stress free environment, immaculate water conditions, and a cleaner shrimp can help ICH from getting out of hand. This is all IMO, IME.

I agree!

DONT get a SHARK not trying to be harsh but they shouldnt even be collected

First of all.... Stop buying fish!!! That solves the basic problem of you keeping introducing healthy fish to an unhealthy environment.

Your eel will generally never get ich because of it's thick layer of slime.

You need to have that tank free of fish for a minimum of three weeks, (the lifecycle time of C. irritans, (ich)). For you I would suggest 6 weeks because you seem to have a patience issue.

As someone else has already pointed out - Quarantine Tank!!! The are very inexpensive - especially when you consider how many fish you have lost due to the lack of one. Never _ever_ add a new fish to an established population without first quarantining for at least 3 weeks - I don't care how pretty you think the fish will look in your display tank or how lonely you think he seems in the Q tank - 3 weeks with no signs of stress or disease is _the rule_.

Also, as pointed out as well, the cleaners of the reef are fine for diversity and interest but they are simply unable to keep up with a fish that has reached the level of infestation that makes it noticeable. You need to remember that while you can see the ich on the fish there are many, many more in their larval form in your sand bed and water waiting to take over residency as soon as they are ready. Cleaners are not a disease control solution in a captive environment, period.

Be patient. Make sure your tank is "spot on" and stress free and then add fish one at a time starting with the least aggressive and most hardy, (if possible). The first one can go straight into the reef, after that you need a Q tank or you will be back where you started. Each fish has to show three consecutive weeks, (preferably four), that are disease and stress free before new fish are added to the existing population.

I agree with G.

Keeping the tank "Fish-free" for 6 weeks will most likely solve your ich problem as the parasite cannot live without a fish host. 6 weeks without fish should cover the entire life cycle of any form/stage of the ich essentially starving them to death.

If I remember correclty the emperor filters have bio-wheels. This may account for the elevated nitrates (the biowheel can become a nitrate factory over time). A refugium would certainly help with the nitrates.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 2004jeepoutlander [/i]
[B]DONT get a SHARK not trying to be harsh but they shouldnt even be collected [/B][/QUOTE]

in regards to sharks, they certainly need pristine water conditions and plenty (bigger than a 150ga) of room to roam :bum:

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by G_cuvier [/i]
[B]First of all.... Stop buying fish!!! That solves the basic problem of you keeping introducing healthy fish to an unhealthy environment.
[/B][/QUOTE]

This is going to have to be your 1st step...
You definitely may need to take a step back and reevaluate your knowledge of the SW hobby

some info missing from your listing:
*how long has your tank been running?
*what are the numbers in regards to water paramaters other than high nitrates?
*are you using competent test kits and are they fairly new, because they do have a shelf life?
*are you choosing healthy fish from a reputable dealer?
*do you currently quarantine, if not, reconsider
*do you do regular water changes?

I'm sorry for your losses... just be patient, don't rush in stocking your tank, and do plenty of research, don't just rely on message boards

Re: can't keep my fish alive!
 

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sethstrouse [/i]
[B]""I found a chemical that i could treat the water with but it is not reef safe or liverock safe" [/B][/QUOTE]

that just makes me cringe... I personally would not consider any of the "quick-fix" chemicals, and I certainly would not put it in a tank w/ LS or LR, or any inverts for that matter :bum:

hi, thanks to all that replied about my fish loss problem, i have definettly learned a few things. in regards to how long my tank has been set up, its been running for 11 months now. my water paremeters are 0 ppm for ammonia, 0 ppm for nitrite, 8.2 on high range ph, and 20 ppm for nitrates. as far as the fish losses, i have always given tank atleast 4 weeks between ich blooms, but have always kept the eel in the tank, is that whats keeping the ich alive perhaps? i will difenettly begin quarantining my fish before adding to tank. i have slowly started dropping my ph and am increasing the water temp and will wait and see what happens. thanks for all the help, seth