Lab analysis of instant ocean and other salt mixes
 

I recently noticed that there was a company doing professional chemistry lab analysis of saltwater, aquariumwatertesting.com, and thought it would be interesting to test different saltwater mixes as there is a lot of ongoing debate on the issue...

I did a quick search and a found a thread in the [url=http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1180164&perpage=25&pagenumber=5]chemistry forum[/URL] where Carlo (cayars) suggested the same thing.

Who would be interested in chipping in to have some tests done? IF enough were interested, it could be very inexpensive, yet yield useful data for the entire site...

The growing lists of salt mixes to test are:

1. Instant Ocean
2. Reef Crystals
3. Marine Enterprises Crystal Sea Marinemix
4. Marine Enterprises Crystal Sea Bioassay Laboratory Formula
5. Oceanic
6. Red Sea Coral Pro
7. Tropic Marin Sea Salt
8. Tropic Marin PRO-REEF
9. SeaChem Marine Salt
10. SeaChem Reef Salt
11. Kent Sea Salt
12. Marine Environment dual phase formula
13. Coralife Scientific Grade Marine Salt
14. OceanPure PRO


We could start with some of the more popular salts and go from there...

i thought someone already did this.....i think it was Reefkeeping Magazine.

I did my own testing and would be interested in the Ocean Pure Pro results!

Are you talking about [url=http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/11/aafeature1]adv. aquarists' study[/URL]?

If so, it didn't test for the things we care most about, no test for ca/alk/mag/nitrate/phosphate/etc. They focused on heavy metals like barium, nickel, titanium, etc.

There was one other [url=http://web.archive.org/web/20001215070800/http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/1999/mar/features/1/default.asp]study[/URL] that did test ca, but that was done about 10 years ago and didn't include popular salts like Oceanic, not sure how relevant that is to today's salt...

aquariumwatertesting tests for:
- Ammonia
- Nitrite
- Nitrate
- Phosphate
- Silica
- Alkalinity
- Calcium
- Potassium
- Magnesium
- Strontium
- Molybdenum
- Iodine
- Copper
- Boron

using spectrophotometry, auto-titration, and specialized ion specific probes to deliver a level of accuracy 100 to 1000 times greater than that of home testing procedures. [url=http://aquariumwatertesting.com/AWT_email_sample.pdf]Sample report.[/URL]

yeah that was one of them.

tagged

interesting

I believe Eric Borneman is already working on an indepth study that has already taken a lot of time. He's compiling the data, but we don't know when it will come out

. . . . .:confused:

I just think this would be valuable information b/c there are countless threads on here debating this salt mix vs. that salt mix... and even more threads asking which salt is best...

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10858837#post10858837 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis L. Stevens [/i]
[B]I believe Eric Borneman is already working on an indepth study that has already taken a lot of time. He's compiling the data, but we don't know when it will come out [/B][/QUOTE]

I thought his study was a look at how well corals grow in each of the different salts... this would be a chemical analysis.

I'd be interested in knowing the difference between marine mix and bioassay. You should add NSW to your list as a control. What all will they be testing for? What do you expect the price would be? I'd be willing to chip in a bit if we get enough on board.

Definitely NSW... not much of that here in Ohio :)

I was thinking even Catalina water (company that supplies LFS with ocean water out of California)...

Yep, Catalina water is what came to my mind when posting in fact -- a lot of people use it is why it would be the best addition IMO :) If I still lived in California I'd be using it -- I've recently seen some decent prices on bioassay though and if it really is as close to NSW as they advertise, it might be worth switching over to, but I'm curious to know what disadvantages there may be of using bioassay as well. Good thread :)

how many miles out do you need to be to get clean NSW?

thanks cd77, appreciate that :)

kb-smoker, not sure? i suppose it would depend on the area, how much run-off there was, etc? maybe someone else has a better answer...

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10858942#post10858942 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DrBegalke [/i]
[B]I thought his study was a look at how well corals grow in each of the different salts... this would be a chemical analysis. [/B][/QUOTE]
I believe chemical analysis is also in that study

What I was hoping for was to try and get $10 from those interested and even less if enough people were interested in doing this. Just enough to cover costs.

I have about 1/2 the salts already in unopened containers.

Depending on funding we may need to limit the salts and those who contribute get a say in things.

From previous thread:
What I'd really like to see even for just the most casual of users is a breakdown on Calcium, Alk & Mg levels of the salts and how balanced they are from something a little better then our typical test kits. It would be nice to have a new "baseline" on these 3 items as the last useful test was in 2005 and everybody posts different Ca/Alk numbers for the same salts on here!

We should be able to get some decent data from the test even though it's not super "pro" tested like ENC. How many grams of salt per gallon of water to arrive at 35% salinity. Can then figure out exactly how much water at 35% can be prepared from each bag/bucket of salt.

Initial pH, at 1hr, 5hrs, 24hrs.

I could also drop an ORP probe in the salt as it's mixing and record it at 5,10,15,... minute increments. Could be extrapolated to how fast the mix clears/dissolves. This may or may not be useful but I can do it so why not.

Any other simple "pre-test" that could be done before sending the samples I'd do if people have any ideas or requests.

We can all discuss exact mixing & procedures ahead of time to handle everything the best we can to not contaminate anything. We could also do a pure RO/DI test also just to double check to make sure no silica/phosphates are in the water and falsely raising the salt levels. I doubt it but it technically should be done.

All ideas are welcome,

Carlo

People onboard thus far and willing to contribute:
cayars
Antman
Boomer
HowardW
Dr Begalke

<<< I was thinking even Catalina water (company that supplies LFS with ocean water out of California)... >>>


No No No.....don't use that Catalina Real Ocean Water! From speaking with others as well as personally testing 2 brand new unopened 5g boxes purchased from a local Petco, that stuff is very inconsistent and anything but unaltered NSW. One box of that stuff I tested (6 times) had an alkalinity of nearly 19dKH from being way over buffered with the soda ash they use, and other critical parameters were also inconsistent from box to box.

HowardW -- [url=http://www.catalinawater.com/Product.html]This stuff[/URL]???

cayars -- Are there any studies on how consistent one particular brand of salt is from one batch to the next? Do any of these companies create their salts in multiple/different locations? If these companies regularly produce batches that yield different results from one batch to the next, then the results of such an experiment might not mean much. That being said, is PayPal ok?

cd77 - yes, that is catalina water. in CA, AZ, NV, it's delivered to LFS/public aquariums by the semi... i used to to use it when i lived there, great stuff.

travis - the borneman/marsh salt study did/does test the water for various things, but it uses salifert test kits and was designed primarily to look at the effects on corals. plus, i thought it end 9/2006, so i'm not sure where that data is?

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10859340#post10859340 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DrBegalke [/i]
[B]cd77 - yes, that is catalina water. in CA, AZ, NV, it's delivered to LFS/public aquariums by the semi... i used to to use it when i lived there, great stuff. [/B][/QUOTE]

I've heard nothing but good from people who use it out in socal.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10859149#post10859149 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cayars [/i]
[B]
What I'd really like to see even for just the most casual of users is a breakdown on Calcium, Alk & Mg levels of the salts and how balanced they are from something a little better then our typical test kits. ...everybody posts different Ca/Alk numbers for the same salts on here!
[/B][/QUOTE]

Exactly... It would be great to have a professional lab do some testing :)

cd77 - i wonder if the boxed stuff is just as good? probably more expensive though due to all the processing/packing/labor/etc.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10859227#post10859227 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cd77 [/i]
[B]

cayars -- Are there any studies on how consistent one particular brand of salt is from one batch to the next? Do any of these companies create their salts in multiple/different locations? If these companies regularly produce batches that yield different results from one batch to the next, then the results of such an experiment might not mean much. That being said, is PayPal ok? [/B][/QUOTE]

I'm interested to know this as well. I don't think every bag of IO that's been produced are 100% consistent. There seems to be some "bad batch" sometimes.

Are they gonna test multiple batches of (IO) salt and compare its consistency from previous batches?