Amphiprion ocellaris variegata - "Snowflake" Ocellaris Clownfish
 

Here's a picture of what I found (I don't know how to insert it into the post):


[url=http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?ddid=4994&siteid=20]"Snowflake" Ocellaris ClownfishPair[/URL]

I wanted to start this forum to talk about these rare amazing fish, their husbandry, breeding, and anatomical reasons for variegation.

To start this off, I'd like some input from some aquariasts that have or had these. What are these things worth? Are they worth the $450 for the pair that Live Aquaria is selling them for? What are the success rates for breeding? Is it difficult to breed these things? Where do they come from? Why are they so rare?

Just start talking about them!

i think its not as rare as it is breeding for a genetic trait.

when i see rare i think omansis and mcc clowns.

I'm assuming then that their fry will have that same genetic variegation in their color?

What are those clowns that you mentioned? Any pics?

[url]http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=305127[/url]

above has pictures of the mccolluchi clown and the omansis clown

those 2 are the hardest to get ahold of

the mcc because they are on the GBR in australia and the omansis because the sultan of oman refuses to let anyone collect fish.

i talked to the wholesaler and he, said they get 6 pair every 2 or 3 mounths. breed in europ somewhere.

and they are very good looking .. ive seen prices higher.

put id like a few pairs of mcc or oman tooo

Any intrepid breeder could probably produce something like this rather easily.

What's the big deal?

They arn't rare or special. IMO they are just junk geneticly inbred fish. Do some basic research, call up ORA, all the information is out there. Look for it.

What's ORA?
What's an intrepid breeder?

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6575989#post6575989 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Wiggawam [/i]
[B]They arn't rare or special. IMO they are just junk geneticly inbred fish. Do some basic research, call up ORA, all the information is out there. Look for it. [/B][/QUOTE]

A. It is not "Induced".

B. I seriously doubt that they are inbred.

C. TMK, the offspring (what you find in the market place) have never spawned. So, where is the inbreeding occurring?

D. ORA does NOT breed them, produce them or even sell them. So, calling them will only waste yours and theirs time.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6577257#post6577257 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by oama [/i]
[B]A. It is not "Induced".

B. I seriously doubt that they are inbred.

C. TMK, the offspring (what you find in the market place) have never spawned. So, where is the inbreeding occurring?

D. ORA does NOT breed them, produce them or even sell them. So, calling them will only waste yours and theirs time. [/B][/QUOTE]

Ugh here we go...

A. Where did I say anythign about being induced?

B/C. How do you think they get morphs like that, they jsut don't spring up out of the ocean like that

D. S far I can only find the Picasso ones on ORA's site and their office is currently closed.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6575989#post6575989 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Wiggawam [/i]
[B] IMO they are just junk geneticly inbred fish. [/B][/QUOTE]

That in itself would be a form of "inducing" changes in the fish--it would probably take MANY years to work though enough generations considering the biology of clownfish to cause any real changes like this...so it would seem unlikely that this is happening. It is not out-of-the-question that one or both of the broodstock parents is a wild-caught variant that has a heritable genetic "defect."

Wiggawam: if you have this information, would you share it with us? I and others are surely curious...

I would trust oama on ORA not having these ;)

For Saipin: ORA information can be found here: [url]http://www.orafarm.com/clownfish.html[/url]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted</a> by Frank Mularo [/i] [B]Any intrepid breeder could probably produce something like this rather easily. [/B][/QUOTE]

Could you offer some suggestions on how to do this?

As far as I know, these are currently being produced in England by TMC: [url]http://www.tmc-ltd.co.uk/index.htm[/url] and are available through quality marine (thus their availability through LA ;)

-Matt

When suggesting ORA as a source the poster may have the seen this page below...posted as picasso

[url]http://www.orafarm.com/newspecies.html[/url]

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6578141#post6578141 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Wiggawam [/i]
[B]Ugh here we go...

A. Where did I say anythign about being induced?

B/C. How do you think they get morphs like that, they jsut don't spring up out of the ocean like that

D. S far I can only find the Picasso ones on ORA's site and their office is currently closed. [/B][/QUOTE]

A. I was not specifically directing this to what you said. It is a common accusation that many are hounding on. If it were true, wouldn't you think they would "induce" all the fish they produce and get top $ for everyone? And more would be available?

B/C. As a matter of FACT, these morphs can and DO just spring from the ocean. Case in point, ORA Picasso clownfish are F1 from a Wild Caught male A. percula that is pictured on their website. He is mated to a WC female A. percula that boarders on being "onyx". (Hopefully, no one will accuse "Onyx Percula" as being inbred).

D. This thread, if you look at the title, is about "Snowflake" Ocellaris clownfish. Not "Picasso" A. percula clownfish. Two different species, as well as two different variants.

I think I know what I have in my hatchery and what I am producing.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6578745#post6578745 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by oama [/i]
[B]A. I was not specifically directing this to what you said. It is a common accusation that many are hounding on. If it were true, wouldn't you think they would "induce" all the fish they produce and get top $ for everyone? And more would be available?

B/C. As a matter of FACT, these morphs can and DO just spring from the ocean. Case in point, ORA Picasso clownfish are F1 from a Wild Caught male A. percula that is pictured on their website. He is mated to a WC female A. percula that boarders on being "onyx". (Hopefully, no one will accuse "Onyx Percula" as being inbred).

D. This thread, if you look at the title, is about "Snowflake" Ocellaris clownfish. Not "Picasso" A. percula clownfish. Two different species, as well as two different variants.

I think I know what I have in my hatchery and what I am producing. [/B][/QUOTE]

Honestly man, everyone has opinions just like *******s. I think the fish look like junk but thanks for stopping by and just picking a fight. And if you looked I added that I was calling but their office was currently closed, thanks for taking things out of context to make you look clever.

PS How do you "Induce" a fish...

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6578745#post6578745 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by oama [/i]
[B]A. I was not specifically directing this to what you said. It is a common accusation that many are hounding on. If it were true, wouldn't you think they would "induce" all the fish they produce and get top $ for everyone? And more would be available?

B/C. As a matter of FACT, these morphs can and DO just spring from the ocean. Case in point, ORA Picasso clownfish are F1 from a Wild Caught male A. percula that is pictured on their website. He is mated to a WC female A. percula that boarders on being "onyx". (Hopefully, no one will accuse "Onyx Percula" as being inbred).

D. This thread, if you look at the title, is about "Snowflake" Ocellaris clownfish. Not "Picasso" A. percula clownfish. Two different species, as well as two different variants.

I think I know what I have in my hatchery and what I am producing. [/B][/QUOTE]

Preach on my brotha!:smokin:

Wiggawam no one is picking a fight. Just a healthy debate:D and no need to get out of line with oama. It is ok when corrected. If these fish were being bred why arent they flooded all over the net. Id have a pair by now if they were that easy to get.

But honestly facts are always more reliable and correct than an opinion.



;)

[QUOTE]Honestly man, everyone has opinions just like *******s[/QUOTE]

Oama's opinion is based on his extensive experience as a Clownfish breeder. His insight is always respected by those of us who have been around this forum for a while. You may want to ask him where he works...:D

this i just my opinion. but wiggawam, u are a rude idiot.

let me run down to petco and grab some snowflake clowns. some of those ones with 3 eyes and 2 tails . lol

ora dose not produce these snowflake clowns , so y call them about it. duuu

but realy these dude in here have bin doing this for a long time and know what they are talking about .

good luck trying to learn about clown fish .

ps it all ways good to be nice to the people that could help and teach u.

ps i have a pair of those , juck snow flakes and they are the best junk i ever had

[QUOTE][B]
Originally posted by Frank Mularo

Any intrepid breeder could probably produce something like this rather easily. [/B]


Could you offer some suggestions on how to do this?

-Matt [/QUOTE]

Sure. Just select the fish that have the traits that you are interested in and backcross them against their offspring.

I said easily, not quickly.

Yes, but even the intrepid breeder would need to have fish with the trait(s) from the beginning...somewhere to start from...the production of more fish is actually the easy part (I understand genetics too, but as Oama will say, clownfish don't always follow the rules ;)

If selecting for the trait means buying a pair, then that can be done too, but it will take time, and I don't believe they've been available long enough to have produced offspring.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6582452#post6582452 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fishboy42 [/i]
[B]Yes, but even the intrepid breeder would need to have fish with the trait(s) from the beginning...somewhere to start from...the production of more fish is actually the easy part (I understand genetics too, but as Oama will say, clownfish don't always follow the rules ;)

If selecting for the trait means buying a pair, then that can be done too, but it will take time, and I don't believe they've been available long enough to have produced offspring. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes, one would have to have some sort of morph to begin with, but from there, the process is straightforward.

I guess I don't find these things all that special. Are clownfish going to be the next discus or bettas or goldfish? I suppose it's inevitable, but I hope not. I would rather see hybrids of two different species.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6582007#post6582007 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by coraldude [/i]
[B]this i just my opinion. but wiggawam, u are a rude idiot.

let me run down to petco and grab some snowflake clowns. some of those ones with 3 eyes and 2 tails . lol
ps i have a pair of those , juck snow flakes and they are the best junk i ever had [/B][/QUOTE]


Dude man, you're hillarious!!! :lolspin:

that's cool to hear you got a pair of junk snowflakes. how much did you pay for that junk? Does your junk pair spawn?


I love that I started this forum to learn about these interesting var of ocellaris, and I get entertainment at the same time.

argue on...

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6582007#post6582007 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by coraldude [/i]
[B]this i just my opinion. but wiggawam, u are a rude idiot.

let me run down to petco and grab some snowflake clowns. some of those ones with 3 eyes and 2 tails . lol

ora dose not produce these snowflake clowns , so y call them about it. duuu

but realy these dude in here have bin doing this for a long time and know what they are talking about .

good luck trying to learn about clown fish .

ps it all ways good to be nice to the people that could help and teach u.

ps i have a pair of those , juck snow flakes and they are the best junk i ever had [/B][/QUOTE]

I think you are an uncultured fool who can't spell correctly. If you like your snowflakes good for you, I personally don't. I have no problem I'm admitting I was wrong, not a big deal to me. I just don't feel I need to be treated like I'm a child and need my abc's taught to me. I was wrong, the snowflakes are not produced at ORA, I did confuse them with the Picasso's. So I think you should keep your opinion to yourself because it just adds junk to this thread.

Oama sorry for being a jackass, it was a rough monday. Hope you understand.

We all have bad days.

I was just trying to get the correct information out there to dispell wild speculations.

Glad you were because I had the wrong information but I stand corrected.

here they are. i have had them for a few weeks . they take some getting used too. but they are fun. they swimm all over all the time. ,, sorry my pics are so bad. the glass need some cleaning.[IMG]http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/18220snowflake_2.JPG [/IMG] [IMG]http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/18220snowflake-med.JPG [/IMG]