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-   -   dart or barracuda for the loop? (http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1279948)

tank watch 12/27/2007 01:25 PM

dart or barracuda for the loop?
 
I have a dart and a barracuda for closed loop. One loop will have an Ocean Motion 8 way, the other loop will be consistent flow thru a 6 outlet manifold. All 14 returns will be bulkheaded into the tank, some going into the rockwork for cleaning, others scattered around the tank for flow.
Tank is approx. 600 gallons.
Which pump will yield the best results on each of the loops?

Kannin 12/27/2007 01:39 PM

I'm sure someone with more experience than me will weigh in on this but, I have done the research on the 2 pumps and the Dart is affected by head loss much more than the Barracuda. I think the Barracuda should run the consistent flow loop. If you lose 1000 gph due to head loss... that's 3300 gph spread between 6 outlets. (550 each) If you put the Dart on there, and you are effectively getting around 2000 gph split 6 ways... you won't even be able to notice 330 gph per outlet.

Elliott 12/27/2007 01:50 PM

both are too small IMO for a 600g tank, but the barracuda is closer to what you need than the dart, you are trying to create flow in a large volume tank, I would choose pressure rated pumps like the marlin, iwaki or pan world. this will give you more flexibility like adding eductors on the ends

tank watch 12/27/2007 02:26 PM

well thats a bummer because I already have bought the pumps, Dart for sump return, dart and 'cuda for loops.

Elliott 12/27/2007 02:33 PM

if you're not planning to keep sps then you're probably fine, otherwise I would look into other pumps. if you haven't drilled your bulkheads then you may want to consider tunzes or vortechs, or in combination with your cl's. I started out with a dart and barracuda in my 300g and soon realized I needed more flow, so I installed larger pressure rated pumps, pan world 250's and added eductors, made a big difference.

mm949 12/28/2007 07:33 PM

shoot...im using a hammerhead for a closed loop and one for the return on my 600gl....the closed loop is like a jacuzzi tub....only 4 discharges....

ricks 12/28/2007 08:20 PM

I have a hammerhead on a 4 inlet CL on my 500 gallon. Along with (4) iwaki 100's on seaswirl and (6) 6200 tunze. And I'm still looking for more flow

Elliott 12/28/2007 08:25 PM

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11474383#post11474383 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ricks [/i]
[B]I have a hammerhead on a 4 inlet CL on my 500 gallon. Along with (4) iwaki 100's on seaswirl and (6) 6200 tunze. And I'm still looking for more flow [/B][/QUOTE]

have you tried eductors? your iwaki's would be better suited then the hammerhead

NUBIANTANGLOVER 12/29/2007 01:08 AM

I am using a Dart for my closed loop system in my 265g tank. Maybe you can still use both pumps---and add additional flow for the main circulation of your tank such as seios, tunzes, OM, sea swirls etc. I'm still on the learning curve for water flow myself. But, I do know there are man ways to succeed. Best of Luck!

tattooreef 01/09/2008 07:32 PM

IMO i would use the dart for the constant flow and the barracuda for the OM for the reason that the barracuda would over power dart and if you had the barracuda on the constant you would never even notice the flow change coming out of the dart if it was on the OM.

Harleyguy 01/09/2008 08:02 PM

I say split the manifold and use both your pumps on it, then buy a Hammerhead and run that on the OM 4way. IMO

steve the plumb 01/09/2008 08:16 PM

I have the dart on my 8 way and some returns are split 1" outlets.Its not enough flow and my tank is 300 gal.I also have a dart for my return pump.Together it makes for a decent flow but I just bought a tunze wave box to add to the flow.I will also add 2 power heads witch I didn't want to do but I wanted more flow.

tank watch 01/09/2008 11:58 PM

I like tatoo's idea of the the stronger pump on the OM so that it doesnt drown out the dart on the constant flow manifold...hmmmm. I guess I will try it this way. I am still several days away, the kitchen remodel had to come first.

spazz 01/10/2008 12:24 AM

if you plan is to use the 8 way then i wouuld use the hammer head on that valve. depending on the skimmer you use for this tank you you might be able to feed all the water comming out of your overflows and put it through your skimmer. the head loss you will get from the sup to the tank will be enough so your skimmer might handle the flow alot better. gravity feeding your skimmer brings alot more of the desolved organics to the skimmer.
with this design you would still need some tunze streams or other pumps that are super high flow to increase the circulation in your tank. having the plumbing in the rock wirk is a good idea so you dont have dead spots in your tank. the tunze streams can be hidden behind rock work so you cant see them.
low flow high circulation systems are becomming alot more popular becasue they decrease the need for big pumps and puts all the water throught he skimmer. this keeps the tanks cleaner and you can have a higher bio load in your tank.

tank watch 01/10/2008 09:16 AM

I had not considered all the water going thru the skimmer. Excellent idea. I have a reeflo orca 250 with dart needle wheel ready to go. I dont have a hammerhead pump, only 2 darts, 1 barracuda. Do you think the skimmer will provide enough water for the sump? I will also have a 55 gallon refugium with a small overflow box and the "U" tube feeding the sump.

tank watch 01/10/2008 09:21 AM

oh, and the tank has a coast to coast overflow, everything will be gravity fed.

tattooreef 01/10/2008 01:43 PM

yes the skimmer will provide enough flow for the sump, as it would be the same amount going through it as it would without the skimmer, its just making one more stop along the way. and the slower the flow through the sump the better, as your algeas and other filtrations will be able to more of an efficient job plus with less turnover you will lose less water to evaporation

dsandfort 01/10/2008 03:32 PM

Lots of variables to consider. If you CL the Dart and add too much head, the flow volume will be poor. Depending on how you plumbed the Barracuda you could end up with too much localized velocity but good flow volume. I think what you are shooting for is maximum flow volume by controlling head loss while controlling velocity so you don't blow stuff all over the tank.

Example. If you plumb a Dart to an OM 4-way with all 1 1/2" pipes, head loss is low and volume is good. If you use a V1 drum (1 open at a time), flow velocity is almost too much and you've added a lot of head loss.. V2 drum (2 open at a time) makes for better velocity while maintaining flow volume because there's less head loss.

Make any sense???

thor32766 01/11/2008 11:55 AM

I use super darts on my 450 for closed loop and return and the current is awesome. I do have the CL dar sitting up on the back of the stand, it only has about two feet of head that helps that.


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