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whelk hitchhikers?
 

Hi everybody.

Has anyone else received their TBS rock w/ a bunch of whelk snails? Sorry, but I don't have pics, and I know ID'ing snails is nearly impossible, even w/ pics, a lot of the time. :( I've literally looked at hundreds of pics of whelks over on Dr. Shimek's website. The variety of phenotypes in the same snail's shell coloration and appearance is staggering. I know to look for the proboscus sticking out front, and a little dot for their eye on a separate "stalk," but I don't want to be picking out Nassarius snails from my display tank, only predatory snails.

The ones I have in my tank are all dark brown, with a shell that is pointy on both ends, shaped like a football. The proboscus elongates out of one of the two end points of the shell. They're crawling primarily over the rocks, on which I have a ton of live barnacles. I've read that nassarius snails stay on the sand bed, but the predatory whelks climb rockwork, so I'm thinking these are not nass snails. They range in size from 2mm to 1 inch. The proboscus has that black speckling "tatoo" appearance too. Should I be pulling these guys from my tank before they eat other animals?

Oh, and I found a 5" long cuke as another hitchhiker! He's just brown in color, but he's the king of the tank so far due to his size! I really hope this heat wave doesn't cook him, as our apartment's AC is struggling right now, and I'm not even running lights until tomorrow at the earliest, to try and keep the water temp down. I'm floating ice in the water each day. To say this heat wave is freaking me out re: my new tank is the understatement of the month... :(

I've pulled out two or three whelks, and know of at least two more, they have an entirely different sheel shape from my nassarius snails I have recieved from local fish stores.

Techreef I would go ahead and pull out any questionable snail. Sounds like you've done lots of research and know these are probably welks. Make sure you have a fan blowing across the tank water to help with keeping it cool. Also need lots of water circ and aggitation of surface to keep O2 levels up in water while battling the heat. I had just started up my TBS 75G tank when we were slammed by Katrina and went 3 wks without power. Everything survived with use of several battery operated air pumps and running powerheads every few hrs on generator along with fans. I'm sure your tank will be fine just keep working on it!:)
Carla

Techreef I just went back and read your post from yesterday-was harder to find since thread split! I have the same skimmer--Deltec AP600 on my 75G. Have had it for about 4 months and love it! Don't know if you read the Deltec forum here on RC, but I have picked up some tips from it that really helped. Make sure to have your water level in skimmer just at edge of bayonet. I keep my air intake set at 2 o'clock. If it tries to overflow/overfoam, I dial it back to 3 or 4 o'clock until it settles down. This usually happens right after a water change. I think using a good skimmer from day one really helps shorten the cycling time of new tank. HTH
Carla

Thanks Stormtrker!

Yeah, the Deltec has settled down a bit. I don't get wild swings in the amount of bubbles/water level when i "scootch" the gate valve on the water supply or the air valve. I think it's settled in a little. I've got a pretty dark green cup of nog already, skimming what i think is considered "dry" skimming, so I'm happy that this purchase seems to be a smart one. I had heard that skimmers go a little wild w/ new salt mix is used, so maybe my problems were related to the fact that the skimmer went nuts 'cause it was in 120 gallons of brand spanking new saltwater.

I think I will go ahead and start plucking the suspected whelks from the tank. I just get a bad feeling that nearly all of them are on top of my barnacles all the time, and never on the sand bed. And the barnacles are so cool, watching them flutter their tiny "feathers" out into the water column and then back in. I've got about 35-40 of the little guys on my base rocks, and the effect is pretty cool to watch the movement throughout the tank. I'd hate to lose them to the snails.

[B]techreef[/B] - Sounds like you got some really good rock and some nice hitchhikers!! Post some pictures!!:D Does the snail look like this one? I pulled this large snail out and put him in another tank:

[IMG]http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/120464TBS18.JPG[/IMG]

I'm still finding small ones and I just remove them.

Jay

TechReef
Lightning whelk are common to the area where TBS does their thing. they can be id'd pretty well by looking at the direction they build their shell.. if they screw in the opposite direction of a turbo snail these are mostlikely them and i'd pluck them all..

hope that helps,
-chris

jmait, yeah, that's pretty spot-on what my suspects look like. thanks! I'll start yanking them out tonight!

I'll try and take some more pics tonight and post. The tiger goby is already learning to recognize me a little bit. He/she no longer hides, but sits on the rock and watches me, sometimes even hopping around the rock to follow me a little ways. Pretty cool!

[B]techreef[/B] one dead giveaway that it is a whelk is you can see a small protective shell on its tail that is uses to seal itself up when in danger. Nassarius snails do not have this protection. I have put about 15 whelks in my sump from my TBS rock.

yeah, Red_Six, my snails have that plug (operculum?) on them. looks like it's Whelk Season when I get home!

ha, this thread is WAY more fun when you actually have a reef tank full o' stuff to talk about! whoo-hoo. :lol:

[B]techreef[/B] - I noticed in your sig line you have "[i]Sequence Marlin 9-nozzle CL[/I]". Is that off of your return? How is the flow? Any chance you could post a pic of that if possible? I'm in the process of making something similar and would like to "steal" some ideas!:)

[QUOTE]ha, this thread is WAY more fun when you actually have a reef tank full o' stuff to talk about! whoo-hoo. [/QUOTE]

Yes, I agree!!

Jay

jmait769, no, my closed loop is driven by a Sequence pump called the Marlin. I don't have a lot of experience with pumps, but I think for the large gph it pushes (1950gph at 4'head) it whispers. my Mag7, which is my return pump from my sump, is MUCH louder. I'm devising ways to quiet that vibration down currently. but back to your question, i'll take some pics tonight and post them. Happy to try and give back to RC anything that I can offer.

It seems to be pretty hit or miss with the hitchikers. I didnt have any whelks or mantis, but I had stone crab and a bunch of gorrilas. Looks like just one Gorrila left right now.

I have this one hitchiker that Ive been trying to get a good picture of for a week now. I fear it is a Eucinid worm. He comes out of a hole in the rock when I feed. It has 4 "whiskers" on its head and moves lightning fast. To make matters worse there are two of them =\

I've been night viewing my tank w/ a regular white light flashlight since the tank was set up Sunday night/Monday morning, and last night it was amazing to see how much STUFF is in there. I saw five or six nickel-size gorilla crabs, a 2" bristle worm, a couple little pods (sweet! on my way to mandarinville in 6-8 months!) and i think some spaghetti worms coming out of the rocks.

On a sad note, while finding and removing one mantis yesterday, this morning I'm almost positive I heard more whacking noises coming from the tank. Of course, the noise is coming from one of two boulders in the tank, each weighing a solid 40lbs minimum and tough to even fit through the top opening of the tank. guess I'll have to try using a trap on this mantis, but first I'll try and eliminate the gorillas.

Let's hear it for the last day of the heat wave!

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7866177#post7866177 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jezzeaepi [/i]
[B]It seems to be pretty hit or miss with the hitchikers. I didnt have any whelks or mantis, but I had stone crab and a bunch of gorrilas. Looks like just one Gorrila left right now.

I have this one hitchiker that Ive been trying to get a good picture of for a week now. I fear it is a Eucinid worm. He comes out of a hole in the rock when I feed. It has 4 "whiskers" on its head and moves lightning fast. To make matters worse there are two of them =\ [/B][/QUOTE]

Sounds like a Eucinid worm. The current bane of my existance. I have several of them in my tank and they appear to be slowly getting more numerous :mad2:

A good trick to get rid of them is once you identify their hole they call home is to pull that rock out, squirt in some fresh water or MgCl or seltzer and they will squirm out of the hole. Of course they usually choose a hole with 2 or 3 entrances, so make sure to watch other areas nearby when squirting.

Brian

I guess pulling the rock out is a bit hard though if the rock weighs 45 pounds and is the bottom of you aquascape.

Do they have any natural predators that we can add? I found a third one =\

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7871626#post7871626 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jezzeaepi [/i]
[B]Do they have any natural predators that we can add? I found a third one =\ [/B][/QUOTE]

I have done several hours of searching on the internet for predators and haven't found anything conclusive.

There were a few people saying a six line wrasse might eat the small ones, but no one answered my posts if they actually SAW the six line eat them.

I'm hoping to find a predator as well, but doubtful I'll get to it until next year.

Brian

just from my quick "OMG, what is that? Do I have any?" research on Eunicid worms, it looked like Dr. Shimek said that they are scavengers. Are you guys having losses in your tanks that you're attributing to these worms, or do they cross cross your "gross out" line?

And Jay, I haven't forgotten about posting those pics of my CL. Last night was busy. I'll get pics up ASAP.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7871895#post7871895 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by techreef [/i]
[B]just from my quick "OMG, what is that? Do I have any?" research on Eunicid worms, it looked like Dr. Shimek said that they are scavengers. Are you guys having losses in your tanks that you're attributing to these worms, or do they cross cross your "gross out" line? [/B][/QUOTE]

Mine are mostly scavengers, but I have actually seen them stretch out of their hole and take pieces of flesh out of my TBS brain corals. Then the brain extrudes mesenterial filaments out of the resulting hole, so they obviously don't like the interaction. Those are the only corals they seem to bother, but those are my favorite corals, so that is a problem.

Since I started feeding the TBS brain corals heavily they are growing and healthy. But the Eunicid worms are growing and healthy as well. The question is, can the worms do more damage to the brains than they can manage to absorb. So I try to remove the worms when I identify one in a hole near my TBS brains.

Brian

what is this?
 

This tank has been setup with TBS for a few months now and about a month and half ago I noticed this. It hasn't really grown much, but I'd still like to know what it is. It's about 8" in length and is on the back wall of the tank.
[IMG]http://labsysgrp.com/sump/8_3/algae.jpg[/IMG]

Lookie here ma, I gots me some fishes!
This is, as named by my two year old, Flashlight. A Carpenters Flasher Wrasse.
[IMG]http://www.labsysgrp.com/sump/8_3/flashlight.jpg[/IMG]

This, also named by my son, is Jammie, a Pajama(Spotted) Cardinalfish.
[IMG]http://www.labsysgrp.com/sump/8_3/jammie.jpg[/IMG]

Two of the rocks that the worms are on can easily be taken out. How would you recomend I remove them? Im not sure which hole is theres. Both rocks have tbs Cups on them so I cant be too mean to them. Both rocks are right by this open brain I just added.... Sob...

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7872814#post7872814 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jezzeaepi [/i]
[B]Two of the rocks that the worms are on can easily be taken out. How would you recomend I remove them? Im not sure which hole is theres. Both rocks have tbs Cups on them so I cant be too mean to them. Both rocks are right by this open brain I just added.... Sob... [/B][/QUOTE]

Don't get too sad yet, just because they attack my TBS brains, does not mean they will attack your open brain. Your open brain is probably from the pacific so it would be a completely foreign meal to them :)

What I do is watch for what holes they come out of frequently (this can sometimes take weeks to observe) and then I quickly remove the rock from the tank when I see them retreat into the hole. Then I squirt in the MgCl (that is my favorite, less damaging to other things than fresh water or seltzer) and let them crawl out of the rock on their own. Then I return the rock to the water immediately. If done correctly your rock is out of the water for a couple minutes at most.

Brian