Benefits of an aquarium cube?
 

When I say aquarium cube I mean an aquarium which has a square footprint,which is not literally a cube,but it is closer to that than a rectangular aquarium.Some benefits of such an aquarium are these:
1)Symmetry relative to four different horizontal axes(while a rectangular one has a symmetry according to only two horizontal axes),which helps in keeping steady water parameters in the whole volume of aquarium's water.
2)All of its dimensions are either the same or very similar with each other,which results in watching fish swimming in all directions horizontally,while in a rectangular aquarium fish more often swim in one direction horizontally.Fish,in their natural environment which is the sea,swim in all directions horizontally.
3)Three equally good viewing panes,while a rectangular aquarium has only one good viewing pane and two not so good viewing panes.

drawback : smaller surface area for gas exchange relative to volume, can be compensated for with good protein skimmer and surface skimming (overflow)

they look nice though

Yearghh...cube tank rocks.

Hi guys...it's my first posts here after reading in this forum for a while...hehehhe.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10829104#post10829104 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by humbugy [/i]
[B]drawback : smaller surface area for gas exchange relative to volume, can be compensated for with good protein skimmer and surface skimming (overflow)

they look nice though [/B][/QUOTE]

This would be true of a cube, but hes talking about a square tank. A 240 that is 4x4x2'h has the same surface area as a 240g 8'x2'x2'. If one tank of equal volume to another has a greater height, then it has less surface area.

You forgot one of the biggest advantages of a square footprint tank though... overlapping light fields for great light efficiency. When you spread out say, 4 halides on an 8' tank, they only overlap end on end, and much of the light is lost front to back, and to the sides on the ends. With a square tank and 4 halides, all 4 bulbs light fields intersect with each other in the center, and next to each other. There are only 2 panes that any light faces out to lose light through. The result: brighter tank for less wattage.

Round tanks would be even better then?

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10830531#post10830531 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by samtheman [/i]
[B]Round tanks would be even better then? [/B][/QUOTE] in some respects, but far more expensive. Round tanks can be a PITA to clean.

James

My idea of a dream tank would be a 90G+ cube located in the middle of a room rather than against or in a wall, with central plumbing. 4 viewable sides would be awesome in my opinion.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10830761#post10830761 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Acrylics [/i]
[B]in some respects, but far more expensive. Round tanks can be a PITA to clean.

James [/B][/QUOTE]

I saw one built by a LFS owner in Bowling Green KY. It was about 2' in diameter and 4' tall. He had it set up so that everything came into the tank from the top and had live rock surrounding the piping. The tank rotated first one way for a while then the other. He had a screw drive magnet that moved slowly up and down and when the tank revolved, the inside magnet cleaned the tank automatically. It was the most impressive tank I have ever seen, and was self cleaning. The back and forth revolving also set up a wave action that the coral seemed to like.

That cylinder tank is in Fishey Business in Bowling Green. It's a really impressive setup. More than 2' in diameter. I believe it's a 440g. Last time I was there the cleaning mechanism wasn't working or was just turned off. That was mid June iirc.

Re: Benefits of an aquarium cube?
 

1: I don't quite understand how symmetry helps one maintain system stability??

2&3: true for small tanks, not necessarily true for larger tanks...lots of people are setting up systems with 3 or 4 feet of front to back depth on 8 and 10 foot long tanks.



[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10828030#post10828030 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Henry100 [/i]
[B]When I say aquarium cube I mean an aquarium which has a square footprint,which is not literally a cube,but it is closer to that than a rectangular aquarium.Some benefits of such an aquarium are these:
1)Symmetry relative to four different horizontal axes(while a rectangular one has a symmetry according to only two horizontal axes),which helps in keeping steady water parameters in the whole volume of aquarium's water.
2)All of its dimensions are either the same or very similar with each other,which results in watching fish swimming in all directions horizontally,while in a rectangular aquarium fish more often swim in one direction horizontally.Fish,in their natural environment which is the sea,swim in all directions horizontally.
3)Three equally good viewing panes,while a rectangular aquarium has only one good viewing pane and two not so good viewing panes. [/B][/QUOTE]

Re: Re: Benefits of an aquarium cube?
 

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10835086#post10835086 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fiziksgeek [/i]
[B]2&3: true for small tanks, not necessarily true for larger tanks...lots of people are setting up systems with 3 or 4 feet of front to back depth on 8 and 10 foot long tanks. [/B][/QUOTE]

Such large tanks have also rectangular shape,which means fish will,more often,swim in the direction of the length of the aquarium than in any other direction.Don't forget that 3:8 is completely different from 1:1.The only case you would be right,should be if the aquarium was very very big,as in public aquariums,so as to fool fish that any direction has the same length or otherwise,so as to make them feel comfortable when they swim in all directions.3 or 4 feet of front to back depth,I don't think are adequate to produce such an effect.Perhaps,it is adequate for fish like Nemo...:D

Re: Re: Re: Benefits of an aquarium cube?
 

Well, at what aspect ratio does a tank go from being rectangular in nature to being cube in nature? I wouldn't think you need to have a 1:1 aspect ratio to get your fish to swim along different axis. Creative aquascaping can go a long way toward influencing the swimming patterns of the fish!

I used to own a standard Oceanic 135 (72x18x24) so at 4:1 it was certainly rectangular. There are a couple of wonderful 600 gallon tank builds going on in the large tank forum (96x48x30). I guess this would be considered in the middle at 2:1. Or maybe Steve Weast's famous Oregon Reef at about 3:4. And of course, there are a couple of 48x48x24 and a 60x60x30 builds going on. These fit the cube-ish classification with 1:1 ratios of course.

And don't forget, a lot of fish, like tangs, need at least 1 long dimension to really be happy. When trying to maintain as close to a cube as possible, its get to be a very big cube!!!

Also, I still don't understand the impact of "cubeness" on system stability....can you elaborate?



[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10835244#post10835244 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Henry100 [/i]
[B]Such large tanks have also rectangular shape,which means fish will,more often,swim in the direction of the length of the aquarium than in any other direction.Don't forget that 3:8 is completely different from 1:1.The only case you would be right,should be if the aquarium was very very big,as in public aquariums,so as to fool fish that any direction has the same length or otherwise,so as to make them feel comfortable when they swim in all directions.3 or 4 feet of front to back depth,I don't think are adequate to produce such an effect.Perhaps,it is adequate for fish like Nemo...:D [/B][/QUOTE]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Benefits of an aquarium cube?
 

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10841181#post10841181 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fiziksgeek [/i]
[B]Well, at what aspect ratio does a tank go from being rectangular in nature to being cube in nature? I wouldn't think you need to have a 1:1 aspect ratio to get your fish to swim along different axis. Creative aquascaping can go a long way toward influencing the swimming patterns of the fish!

I used to own a standard Oceanic 135 (72x18x24) so at 4:1 it was certainly rectangular. There are a couple of wonderful 600 gallon tank builds going on in the large tank forum (96x48x30). I guess this would be considered in the middle at 2:1. Or maybe Steve Weast's famous Oregon Reef at about 3:4. And of course, there are a couple of 48x48x24 and a 60x60x30 builds going on. These fit the cube-ish classification with 1:1 ratios of course.

And don't forget, a lot of fish, like tangs, need at least 1 long dimension to really be happy. When trying to maintain as close to a cube as possible, its get to be a very big cube!!!

Also, I still don't understand the impact of "cubeness" on system stability....can you elaborate? [/B][/QUOTE]

What you say above seems logical from a theoretical point of view,which does not mean that what I say about these benefits of a square aquarium,are wrong.But if you try what you say and watch carefully the fish while swimming,you will realise that what you say is wrong from the practical point of view(the reality).What I aknowledge about your thought is that how bigger the depth(width) of the aquarium is,affects the time fish swim towards this direction,this is true.As for the ''system stability'' issue,I think that the square shape helps more for avoiding the presence of points of pollution inside the aquarium(I am not sure for the reality,but in theory it seems right).Furthermore,don't forget that a square shape is also(always) a rectangular shape,but it is a special case of rectangular shape.That is what makes it unique and gives it the benefits I described above.

Hmm.... 4'x4' means a 5.65' diagonal... thats not too bad. The thing about a 4'x4' square is that even though the fish has to turn more, it can do so forever, effectively swimming one large circle rather than 'laps' in a rectangular tank. Something to consider.

A 5' square bottom gives a 7' diagonal, and a 6' square gives a 8.5' diagonal. An 8'x4' tank has a 9' diagonal... Things dont seem so bad for square tanks. Ill agree, I most likely will never want a 60g cube again. Sure, its easy to light with a single halide pendant (very effective use of light), but flow control is very hard with such a relatively tall tank that you can only have 2' in any direction. A 4' long 55g is easier to get cool wave action in.

Good point hahnmeister.

Henry100--I don't believe the geometrical uniqueness of a square has anything to do with good system stability. You seem to mention something about improved flow, or the ability to eliminate dead spots where waste can collect. I believe this is more of a reflection on the system designer/builder than the fact that the tank may have a square footprint.

Alright,I think my point about system stability may be wrong,but my other two points are right.I also have a rectangular aquarium,but what I really dislike about these aquariums is that you usually see the side of the fish and not their face.It's a matter of personal preferations.If you want a large viewing pane and the thing mentioned above does not bother you,then build a rectangular aquarium.If the thing mentioned above does bother you,then build a square aquarium(like me).

FYI--I would love to build a huge cube someday....

I'm building a largish "cube" as we speak. It's 6' X 6' X 32". It will have a central overflow of 12" x 12" and is plumbed below the slab to a remote sump and equipment area, there is also power supplied below the slab to power lights etc., the power will enter up through a dry chase in the overflow. The tank will be viewable from all sides and the base is about 42" high so that it can be viewed while standing without bending down. I decided on this project after seeing a few "cube" tanks and was taken by how much more impressive the volume seemed, and how much more could be done in aquascaping in comparison to the typical shapes. I also noted as mentioned in this thread that the fish seemed to act a little more naturally in their swimming routes and behavior. Needless to say I like the cube style.

While I like cubes aesthetically, I'm not so sure I would go so far as to say they are inherently "better" in any way. From the reading above, one could easily make the assumption that a 4' "cube" would somehow be "better" than a 4 x 8' tank simply because of the square shape. The argument just doesn't make any sense. Perhaps I'm reading it incorrectly but that is the way it reads to me.

JMO,
James

No,it is a personal choice and a personal opinion,which is better.What I say is that I prefer square aquariums(or cube aquariums) because they create a more natural environment for fish than rectangular aquariums do.So,if someone wants to create an environment as close to nature as it is possible,then he prefers cube aquariums.If someone thinks this subject means nothing for him,then he prefers rectangular aquariums for their own benefits.

Chris Witort, thats my next tank... a 6x6x2' tall. The depth of the tank makes going higher than 2' a challenge for me to reach in, and Im well over 6' tall, even with the central 18"x18" overflow I have planned.

They are better for lighting (I plan to use a single 4'x4' skylight) because of the central overlap, and, they are easier to build/more economical, because the most efficient use of linear materials is a square. You can use thinner glass on the sides because there is less linear material use, and consider this... a 8'x2'x2' 240g vs. a 4x4x2' one... The heights are the same, but the long one requires 20 linear feet of glass. The square one requires 16 linear feet. Maybe not a huge deal in the grand scheme, but still... it is better. Im sure when it comes to 500g+ tanks, this can cut some cost.

Henry where do you come up with this stuff? :D

So a cube is more natural than a rectangle? I don't see any of your arguements that corroborate this. As mentioned some fish like to swim fast and in a straight line. Others like to hide in rock and do little swimming.

Hahn when was the last time that you saw a tank where fish could swim on the diagonal from corner to corner :D

Lets look at this another way Henry. For ANY front panel length and height, a cube results in a LARGER tank. It could be argued that LARGER is always better in terms of the room the livestock would desire. But larger is not always better for everthing else.

Back in the real world, many of us desire to have 4', 6' or 8' tanks. So is a 8' x 8' tank better than a 8' x 1' tank? In terms of water volume, sure it is. What about in terms of maintenance? Operating cost? The Wife? The materials cost? The cost to stock? The floor space needed? Etc.

Yes the Georga Aquarium is likely better than my 75 Gallon tank... neither are cubes :)

I do enjoy your "A is better than B" posts, even if they are not supported by the facts. Anytime you assert that A is better than B, you need to put the juxatpostion in context.

Remember these :)
"Syringe is the best applicator for acrylic solvents!"
"Acrylic is superior to glass as a tank building material! "
"Has anyone ever built a double-decker aquarium? "
"A way to add fish immediately in your new aquarium! "

Henry your posts are always fun... Thanks for making me smile today!

When is the last time I saw a fish swim across a tank diagonally...??? I get what you are saying, depends on the fish Im sure, but it is the 'longest dimension'. The other thing I pointed out was rather than 'doing laps' the fish can swim in circles around the tank, in a constant circle, rather than having to turn around at each end and do laps. Thats all. As far as the fish are concerned, a square isnt that far from one of those cylinder tanks, esp with a central overflow.

Other than that, you gotta admit... its the best way to increase your volume while keeping your costs down... And to me, the depth of feild is awesome.

I dont intend to go bowfront, or go all T5s, but just the overall size will be about the same...
[url]http://www.miniriff.de/Szczyra/szczyra.html[/url]
[img]http://www.miniriff.de/Szczyra/1.jpg[/img]
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[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10846443#post10846443 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal [/i]
[B]Henry where do you come up with this stuff? :D

So a cube is more natural than a rectangle? I don't see any of your arguements that corroborate this. As mentioned some fish like to swim fast and in a straight line. Others like to hide in rock and do little swimming.

Hahn when was the last time that you saw a tank where fish could swim on the diagonal from corner to corner :D

Lets look at this another way Henry. For ANY front panel length and height, a cube results in a LARGER tank. It could be argued that LARGER is always better in terms of the room the livestock would desire. But larger is not always better for everthing else.

Back in the real world, many of us desire to have 4', 6' or 8' tanks. So is a 8' x 8' tank better than a 8' x 1' tank? In terms of water volume, sure it is. What about in terms of maintenance? Operating cost? The Wife? The materials cost? The cost to stock? The floor space needed? Etc.

Yes the Georga Aquarium is likely better than my 75 Gallon tank... neither are cubes :)

I do enjoy your "A is better than B" posts, even if they are not supported by the facts. Anytime you assert that A is better than B, you need to put the juxatpostion in context.

Remember these :)
"Syringe is the best applicator for acrylic solvents!"
"Acrylic is superior to glass as a tank building material! "
"Has anyone ever built a double-decker aquarium? "
"A way to add fish immediately in your new aquarium! "

Henry your posts are always fun... Thanks for making me smile today! [/B][/QUOTE]

Smile,smile,smile,but I also have to smile because I know you own a rectangular aquarium and I own a cube aquarium...:)
You watch your fish swimming along your aquarium,which definitely has a narrow and long shape.How you compare this shape with the natural environment of the fish,is something noone else knows,except you.The third thread of mine you mentioned above is completely irrelevant with the subject of ''A is better than B''.Also,is it the first time you hear that something is better than something else?Can't something be better than something else?If you believe not,then you must change your mind...;)

Henry I am sure our fish can have a long discussion about what feels more natural to them. I don't have room for a 4' x 4' tank and certainly do not think my animals would be happy in a 2.5' x 2.5 x 18" cube with a lump of rock in the middle.

Sure things can be "better"... The point is that your reasoning is not always supported by the facts. However, your posts are good natured and the conversation is always fun.