jacmyoung


Try the "soft" stopper method I mentioned previously and see if the noise is bearable to you. Mine are barely noticeable.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9474246#post9474246 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dhnguyen [/i]
[B]jacmyoung


Try the "soft" stopper method I mentioned previously and see if the noise is bearable to you. Mine are barely noticeable. [/B][/QUOTE]

I did try it by sticking it through one of the full blast mod slots, the soft stopper did not stop the prop all the time. One out of 10 the prop shot pass the stopper and stayed on reverse. However it might just be that the soft stopper was too close to the prop blades, if it is installed a little further it should work 100%. Noticed my stopper can be very close to the blades, there is no way the prop can shoot pass it. I could not give a reasonable opinion on the noise because it was tested in the bucket not in the tank.

Since I have this sand down mod done, there is no need for a stopper, but in the long run if the self-correction should fail again, will certainly try the soft stopper.

Good to know there is always a plan B.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9473767#post9473767 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jacmyoung [/i]
[B]All correct except the term "jamcyoung stopper" give people the impression I am out of control:) Let's just call it TSM.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I'm out of control too and don't have a stopper named after me... You should feel privileged...:D

With regards to your stopper, I 'm very happy with the performance. Mine doesn't make hardly any noise but again I only turn it on / off every few minutes. But it ALWAYS spins right!!! Awesome mod...

I'll try the sanding on one of mine tonight and hope it works out...

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!

wait...

Thank you Mr Pink Floyd for getting this started and to everyone that followed!

I modificated mine this afternoon and am amazed at how well it is performing. I was on a waiting list for a 6045 and instead will pick up another 25.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9476796#post9476796 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by skydancer [/i]
[B]I'm out of control too and don't have a stopper named after me... You should feel privileged...:D

With regards to your stopper, I 'm very happy with the performance. Mine doesn't make hardly any noise but again I only turn it on / off every few minutes. But it ALWAYS spins right!!! Awesome mod...

I'll try the sanding on one of mine tonight and hope it works out... [/B][/QUOTE]

If you are not bothered by the stopper then don't sand down the prop. The SDM should be the last option. If it ain't broken don't fix it, I know it is easier said than done.

The stopper is guaranteed to work since it has been tested by all the MJMods, the SDM has no track record. I only did it because I wanted the pulsing flow so bad yet could not stand the stopper noise.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9477289#post9477289 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elzool [/i]
[B]Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!

wait...

Thank you Mr Pink Floyd for getting this started and to everyone that followed!

I modificated mine this afternoon and am amazed at how well it is performing. I was on a waiting list for a 6045 and instead will pick up another 25. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yep, totally agree with you. Anyone that pays the 30 extra bucks to get the 6045 is not making a smart decision. There is a lot to be said about creative marketing... and when one figures out the truth and exposes it... then one becomes a villain...

Elzool, I'm glad you're happy with your mod. I think a lot of people will benefit from this thread... That's what RC is all about.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9477329#post9477329 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jacmyoung [/i]
[B]If you are not bothered by the stopper then don't sand down the prop. The SDM should be the last option. If it ain't broken don't fix it, I know it is easier said than done.

The stopper is guaranteed to work since it has been tested by all the MJMods, the SDM has no track record. I only did it because I wanted the pulsing flow so bad yet could not stand the stopper noise. [/B][/QUOTE]
Well I thought you have to do the WFM to be able to use the stopper.... and was thinking to have a more direct 1230 GPH flow with the FBM that always starts spinning right.
Now I'm confused... Are you saying the sanding is not a reliable auto-starting method?

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9477416#post9477416 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by skydancer [/i]
[B]Well I thought you have to do the WFM to be able to use the stopper.... and was thinking to have a more direct 1230 GPH flow with the FBM that always starts spinning right.
Now I'm confused... Are you saying the sanding is not a reliable auto-starting method? [/B][/QUOTE]

I gotcha. In that case I'd suggest the soft stopper mod dhnguyen mentioned earlier. In fact I might do one to see if it really is much quieter.

I am not saying the SDM is not reliable, it has worked 100% so far and I don't see how it will stop working, but it has no track record, unlike the stopper mod (soft or hard). Also I wasn't too comfortable with sanding the prop, it will void warranty more so than simply mod the front shroud.

I'd try to touch as fewer things as possible.

Here's a question though. Has anyone tried the mod on the 6045? I'm interested in knowing if it will double the 6045's output.

edit: nevermind... I see it's already been done. Dang it! I need to find more 6025's.

I forgot to mention my attempt at using different hobby props, after reading the Hydor pump mod, which is basically using a MJMod prop unit on the Hydor 4 (bigger prop than the Hydor's) to get much bigger flow.

The Octura 1435 and 1440 props actually fit on the 6025 unit quite well, well enough for me to get some tests done. The 1435 is very close to the 6025 prop, gave about the same flow, if I have to bet it was a little less than the Tunze prop. The 1440 was too big for 6025. While it is possible to size down the 1440 to let it work, from my reading of the MJMods, it is probably not worth the effort.

While the experiment appeared disappointing, one can at least take home the knowledge that the Germans had done their homework and optimized their design, while the Italians had left a lot room for improvement. As for us Americans, I don't know what to say, judging from how much improvement the DIYers were able to do to the MJ pumps, we had hardly done any homework:) In all fairness the MJs were not designed as stream pumps. But then why didn't we come up with some similar products? Alright we have the Vortech pumps, but I am talking about an affordable yet effective stream pump.

Are we so far behind that we can't even do what the Chinese are capable of? I know they have come up with knock-offs as soon as the Germans debuted theirs:)

Luckily Tunze did make the decision to restrict the flow of the nanos therefore allowed the DIYers to have some fun with it.

jacmyoung


I don't think that the Germans are innovators in all this per se. The original stream style pump wasn't invented in Germany but rather here in the States (yes all you patriots can stand proud now). Remember the Reeftek?

Anyways I wouldn't say that the DIYers haven't done any home work. There are some very knowledgeable and talented DIYers some of whom have access to the same tools that the big manufacturers have. In actuality, I have never used a product that I didn't think couldn't use some improvement. Most DIY projects are built very well (much better than the manufactured ones even)---it's the pride thing I think :)

The reason why I think Aquarium Pharmaceuticals (the company that made the MJs) didn't even bother to build a stream style version of the MJ is that it's just not worth it to them. Seriously though, in the big picture of the aquarium industry, saltwater and reef hobbiests are only a small percentage of the sales. The big money is in freshwater. Tunze, Deltec, and the likes are really the little guys in the big scheme of things.


D.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9481314#post9481314 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jacmyoung [/i]
[B]...Luckily Tunze did make the decision to restrict the flow of the nanos therefore allowed the DIYers to have some fun with it. [/B][/QUOTE]


Not just the nanos mind you. The larger stream pumps (6000, 6100, 6060, 6080) also have restrictive shrouds as well. You can increase the flow on those a lot just by open up the grill a bit.

I wasn't really taking about innovation rather precision when I compared the German product and the Italian product. For example the Hydor 4 is reported to draw 12W not the 8.5W as claimed. My comment was also not directed at the DIYers rather at the manufacture level.

I'd certainly like to believe it is because the US manufactures are simply shooting for bigger market not going niche, therefore the lack of new products. But I simply don't believe it is the case.

I agree with you 100% there is this large pool of great talent among US DIYers that can make what we did here like child's play, yet we as a culture has lost the drive to bring such talent to the next level, manufacturing new products to compete in the world market, instead we are so used to buy cheap from China and allow our own manufacturing capability to disappear.

It is not all about the cost of labor and materials and such, because don't tell me labor and material costs are cheap in Germany and Italy. I know most of their products are also manufactured in China these days, but at least they are still willing to do the R&D on new products and bring them to the market.

As far as the Tunze 6000's Streams, it is probably because it is not as easy to do as the nanostreams without completely alter the appearance of the pumps.

We ARE still doing lots of R&D in the US. It's the actual manufacturing of it that we ship overseas. This is true in almost all industries in the US nowadays.

When it comes down to it, this is all about the big dollar and the maximum profit potential. If the big companies don't see a big return on profit, they don't even bother with it. Sadly but true.

Big companies nowadays rather let the little guys do the trial and error of R&D and marketing the new products. If it is successful and shows enough return on profit, the big guys would just come in gobble them up with their own products or just plain buy out the competition. Believe it or not the bulk of the cost in release a new product isn't in R&D. It's marlketing.

Hey jacmyoung,
is it possible to quantify how much sanding you did on the prop so it can auto-correct 100% of the time?

I sanded mine down a bit (only a little bit) last night but it didn't do the trick...

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9485592#post9485592 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by skydancer [/i]
[B]Hey jacmyoung,
is it possible to quantify how much sanding you did on the prop so it can auto-correct 100% of the time?

I sanded mine down a bit (only a little bit) last night but it didn't do the trick... [/B][/QUOTE]

No. Not only that sand down level is also specific to the individual pump. when I put another front housing on (which has the same mods only the opening sizes are different) the prop needed sand down more.

Let me do the soft stopper mod and see how that works out. It should be the better way for your specific need.

I did the soft stopper mod, the good news is it is the easiest of all the nano mods, the bad news is it does not work as cleanly as the stopper I did earlier.

All I had to do was determine the location of the prop when it was in reverse flow, drill a small hole at the underside of the nozzle right behind where the prop blades would be in reverse, then force a piece of weed whacker wire in.

The soft stopper so far had always made the correction but sometimes the prop would get stuck on the stopper for a second or two before going back and correct the flow, other times the prop went pass the stopper started slapping the crap out of the stopper before making correction.

Also unlike my stopper that applies even force to both prop blades, the soft stopper only hit one of the two blades at any given time, so an uneven force is always applied during the correction.

Additionally I don't think the clicking noise is much reduced than my stopper. I begin to think the noise was just a personal thing, or maybe my setup is quieter than most others. Since my setup is in the living room I did make a lot of effort to minimize noise, the loudest thing on my system is the 4" fan in the canopy just to give some perspective.

So the soft stopper will work, just I am not 100% behind it. I know dhnguyen may offer some advice for improvement.

What I am going to do for now is not use stopper at all, yet still put both my pumps on 30-sec cycle. I think 1/3 of the time they will run in reverse, the other 2/3 in correct flow, really no big harm done. They basically do a few cycles of right flow then do a few cycles of reverse (auto cleaning) runs if you know what I mean. And there will be no startup noise at all, not even those slight clicking sound from the Tunze self-correct mode, because I am simply not asking it to correct the flow at startup.

IMO any stopper on a nano will chatter because of the prop having that bit of play on the shaft. I think the sound may be coming from that area and not actually the prop hitting the stopper. The soft stopper is quieter on the maxi mod since prop is rigid. This is only my guess though.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9498520#post9498520 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by keinreis [/i]
[B]IMO any stopper on a nano will chatter because of the prop having that bit of play on the shaft. I think the sound may be coming from that area and not actually the prop hitting the stopper. The soft stopper is quieter on the maxi mod since prop is rigid. This is only my guess though. [/B][/QUOTE]

Excellent point.

BTW, while looking at my 6025s making alternating flows, I started thinking why hasn't anyone come up with an alternating flow steam pump? All it needs is a 90 degree gear to drive the prop in either direction.

dhnguyen, do you know for fact this kind of pump has been made in the past? If not maybe you and I can apply for a patent and start a new DIY project?

Who knows one day some big company may buy us out and we can retire early:)

Just an observation...
One of my four 6025s always corrected itself to the right spin... so I only did the FBM on it (without the Jacmyoung stopper) and it's kicking butt. The water stream (as expected) is stronger than the WFM.
So, if you're lucky enough to get a 6025 that corrects itself every time, I would suggest to do the FBM, if you want a stronger flow stream.

My 6045's always correct themselfs, but by the use of the stock stopper. If I was to do the FBM do you think it would effect this and if so why? Just considering hacking some plastic for kicks.

Keineis. I accidentally cut my stock stopper out of my 6045. I put the protective grating over the end of the out let to stop the impeller from shooting out. The 6045 has always worked and spun the right way.

I still have one that is stock and it has failed to start one day, I had to take the impeller out and clean it, my modded 6045 works every time.

However I didn't cut any length off of the out let tube, just the cross hair stopper.

[IMG]http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/56970tunzefbm.jpg [/IMG]

off the subject, but my hippo tang has been trying to eat some of the algae off the front grate. he swims up from the side and then jets right in front of the stream, and gets thrusted hard away, and he goes right back for more! It is funny.

My out-let tube was covered with algae till the other day one of my snails gobbled up a bunch.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9554126#post9554126 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by skydancer [/i]
[B]Just an observation...
One of my four 6025s always corrected itself to the right spin... so I only did the FBM on it (without the Jacmyoung stopper) and it's kicking butt. The water stream (as expected) is stronger than the WFM.
So, if you're lucky enough to get a 6025 that corrects itself every time, I would suggest to do the FBM, if you want a stronger flow stream. [/B][/QUOTE]

It turned out the soft stopper will work, I just had to use a bigger gauge weed whacker wire. I was using the white kind to match the color, it was smaller gauge, now with the green type it works every time. It is also important that the stopper is placed right at where the front of the prop blades are when it is in reverse, which can be a little different for each pump, so need to eyeball the prop very closely to decide where to drill the hole for the soft stopper. Both the soft stopper and the crossbar stopper give out similar noise though.

Now that the soft stopper is working, you can safely correct the flow without the need to do the wide flow mod. The WFM provides a more wave-like wide flow, as a result the flow reach is shorter. Without the WFM obviously the flow will reach further since it is narrower.

Now that I think our work on the 6025s is almost all done, there is just not much can be squeezed out of it, I can't help but feel how short-sighted Tunze was not making a bigger motor for the 6045s. They can certainly fit a 12W motor in that small block and use a bigger prop to pump out nearly 2000gph. they can probably sell it for $120 people will have no problem buying it.