Thanks KirstenK
 

Posted on Frag Facts
Posting of the revised FAQ's will be my last action involving Frag. Planning of Frag events (demo's, talks, fun stuff etc.) will require someone else to step up.

I have enjoyed the past 3 1/2 years and bringing FRAG from a group of 3-7 to what it is today.

My personal thanks to Kirsten for all the dedication she has shown in keeping things going. We all owe you.

KirstenK,

The job you have done is amazing and often thankless. It'll be nice to see you at meetings when you can be there socially and not "running the show."

Thanks for your time and effort and I hope we continue to honor your effort by continuing in the tradition you developed.

Yes to that, even thou my wife and me moved here from ST Louis this is appearing to be a great group of people loving reef keeping. I never met you Kirsten since we are new here and dont even have a tank but plan on attending meets when possible till we can get a tank going. It appears you have been a great inspiration to the club and may God Bless you and may he also bless the club in finding a person as well as you have served it to take your place.
Thank you

I'll have to second that Baja. When I found FRAG, Kirsten was the first person I had interaction with. I had never been on any kind of website where I chatted with people back and forth. EVERY pm, conversation, interaction I have had with you Kirsten has always been positive. You are such a valuable assest to our group. I have learned a bunch from you along the way and could never say enough THANK YOU'S to you. :)

yes, thank you Kirsten, for answering so many of my newby questions and the house calls along the way, you are a very knowledgeable and generous person, a huge asset to the group.

Thanks for the Thanks folks.

Didn't do it alone and want to take a moment to Thank all those who supported and helped FRAG along the way.

Kristin for riding out the beginning and being my personal cheerleader.

Tiffanie for Parade of Reefs and doing countless behind the scenes preparations for special FRAG events.

Robert, Skip, Frank, Bajabum for free lectures, demos.

Ed, Jesse, Bajabum........a few who come to mind that have supplied countless corals for Trade, sell and Free to peeps who attend.

Grenaria, Kristin, Melissa, Adrian for artwork, T-Shirts, name tags, stickers.

Scott, Tiffanie, Buffalobunch, JMCAquarium for super duper group buys.

About the Reef and AzSeabottom for donations.

Frank for super raffles.

Mostly I want to Thank those who attend, rain or shine, whether they have something better to do or not, they attend to make it happen and without them, there is nothing. :D

Now for the big question? Any ideas on who can and who wants to try and fill your shoes so that this does not go to shambles with no orginization or events other than meets? You appear to have coordinated demos, special events not just normal meets of reef geeks. Anyone in mind or that has spoken up to want a hand at the rains of your passing?

Among other things the question is how does everyone want the club to look going forward. I know that the idea of some sort of more formalized organization may seem like an anathema to some. However, by organizing we potentially could plan for more presentations and training events in conjunction with the social functions we currently have.

formal orginization is good as long as you have majority agreance with it, and two you have appointed people that will fullfill the obligations of the position they are in.
I have no room to speek as I am new to arizona but we had clubs in st louis that were organized with officers etc and it did open opportunity for more events etc.
The one thing I see here in Phoenix that I have to admit that I dont like in all honesty and honesty is best I think is that the majority of people live towards scottsdale and us down in Peoria west side either have to make a trek drive or not attend where even thou the majority is up that way it seems fair to back and forth all the events so that you dont end up loosing a group due to non involvement over having to drive to far to participate. It seems if we down here are willing to make the drive to there then every other month they should also be willing to make the drive down here only fair if you ask me.

I agree with Jerry 100%.

I also agree with R&K, somewhat. Rather than switching the venue every month and making one group or another drive very far, I'd like to see a switch to a more centralized location. An easy way to do this would be to use something like [url]http://www.frappr.com[/url] to map out the majority of the group's locations, and try to find something in the middle.

Though honestly, the drive from the west side to east, or the east to west isn't really that bad for 1 day a month :)

Just my two pennies.

Jason I think that is also a good idea a centralized location so we are all going about the same distance. I know from my house in peoria it stated 39 miles to the meetings so that is not around the corner exactly out here . I want to come even thou I wont have a tank for some time to meet everyone and all and to learn from you more advanced crowd but it just would be nice to not have to travel so far when most have to go so little. I also just hope that the club is able to regain the orginization that it had so there are meets with lessons, and speakers etc not just a bunch of us sitting talking, that is nice to but learning is nice also.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11487148#post11487148 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ron and Kathy [/i]
[B]formal orginization is good as long as you have majority agreance with it, and two you have appointed people that will fullfill the obligations of the position they are in.
I have no room to speek as I am new to arizona but we had clubs in st louis that were organized with officers etc and it did open opportunity for more events etc.
The one thing I see here in Phoenix that I have to admit that I dont like in all honesty and honesty is best I think is that the majority of people live towards scottsdale and us down in Peoria west side either have to make a trek drive or not attend where even thou the majority is up that way it seems fair to back and forth all the events so that you dont end up loosing a group due to non involvement over having to drive to far to participate. It seems if we down here are willing to make the drive to there then every other month they should also be willing to make the drive down here only fair if you ask me. [/B][/QUOTE]

So there's a different thread for this discussion. But as long as we're here:

Kristin did a great job building the club up (I wasn't around then but I see the fruits of it now), regardless of where people are located. If people out on the West side of the valley don't like driving a long long way to go to a club meeting, perhaps there ought to be a West side group that meets.

Multiple groups operating towards the same goals (the propogation of the hobby, as it were) would, IMO, be good for the Phoenix area as a whole. However, the onus rests with West siders if they want to set up their own group and meeting place/time. For the record, I agree with JerryZ that this could be the time for the current (East valley) people to transition from a group that meets to an actual club, with officers and bylaws and dues and everything else that goes with it.

/end threadjack

that has good bad and uglly lol if you turn the east to a club that eliminates the ones on the west that participate now with you, i only can say i hope it works out where everyone that belongs now gets to stay together as a group the breaking apart into two seperate clubs is sort of a bummer one got to big to far etc so now you are not in sounds not so good to me. I love a group club and isnt that what this has been why break it why not make it where they share a centralized place is all.

The disappointing thing about forming multiple groups (east/west) is that some of us don't mind a drive, and would gladly do both. But then it seems like, why do two groups for one city?

Anyway, I'm just spouting out whatever comes to mind...an actual club with officers and such would be awesome, but isn't that what was originally tried here?

I've actually looked a little bit at the reef clubs for the Denver area since I might be moving out that way this year....I'm seeing the same stuff. There is an official organized club, but there are "chapters" for different areas of the city...and then there is another club that isn't as organized and just meets at houses....

blah bglah blah

If the meetings are at someone's house, where will we get our tapped beer and food served to us? ;)

Seriously though, in a city this large I'm actually kind of surprised that there aren't multiple groups. I think everyone would prefer to have one larger groups to multiple smaller groups (for variety and company) -- perhaps a club that meets in central-ish Phoenix could be a solution, as has been suggested above.

I see a big problem brewing thou, the problem with it is called CHANGE some dont like CHANGE it upsets them. I mean the wester side would love a centralized meet for sure but the die hard set in the old ways members of scottsdale and that way would most likely say no why change let them have a group of their own I can see a problem with not the west siders but the other side not wanting to make a compromise and change for the benefit of all since they have had it their ways set to long, i seen this happen in st louis. to bad people cant get along and agree for the right reasons all the time but that is what we are humans.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11487148#post11487148 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ron and Kathy [/i]
[B]The one thing I see here in Phoenix that I have to admit that I dont like in all honesty and honesty is best I think is that the majority of people live towards scottsdale and us down in Peoria west side either have to make a trek drive or not attend where even thou the majority is up that way it seems fair to back and forth all the events so that you dont end up loosing a group due to non involvement over having to drive to far to participate. It seems if we down here are willing to make the drive to there then every other month they should also be willing to make the drive down here only fair if you ask me. [/B][/QUOTE]

does it really matter that much how far you drive to the meeting once a month? i live in Queen Creek and make the drive every month. thats over 40+ miles one way. i'm there every month. splitting the group up and moving the location every other month will only cut down on some of the attendance. the fun and friends along with great deals and finds make it all worth it.

[quote][i]OwenInAZ
For the record, I agree with JerryZ that this could be the time for the current (East valley) people to transition from a group that meets to an actual club, with officers and bylaws and dues and everything else that goes with it.[/i][/quote]

there was a club here with officers and bylaws, dues and that didn't last long(DMS). it seems that this group of reefers (the ones ive meet) like a more relaxed atmosphere, to sit and talk to one another. don't get me wrong guest speaker are great too.

but all of this is something the new head of Frag is going to have to deal with.:D

i vote for Adrian, a former member of DMS.

-jesse

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11488026#post11488026 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by frontosa_man80 [/i]
[B]

i vote for Adrian, a former member of DMS.

-jesse [/B][/QUOTE]

I second the vote for Adrian

Well i just hope you all get it worked out to keep your club together and alive and as vibrant and excited people like itis now. Best of luck with a new leader.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11486981#post11486981 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jerryz [/i]
[B]Among other things the question is how does everyone want the club to look going forward. I know that the idea of some sort of more formalized organization may seem like an anathema to some. However, by organizing we potentially could plan for more presentations and training events in conjunction with the social functions we currently have. [/B][/QUOTE]


Hmmm. Desert Marine Society re-hash discussion: take 25 (or 26, or ten-million. I lost count after 3.)

I'm pretty middle of the road as far as discussions about this sort of stuff go, but I get defensive when I hear talk of "converting" FRAG into anything other than what it is....

DMS was a formal club. Elected officers, bylaws, dues, blah blah blah ad nauseum. The club has FAILED, and failed miserably, every time someone has tried to bring it back to life. The reason is simple, and it it is already being exposed (again) in this thread:

The "club" tries to be everything everyone wants. More centralized meeting locations, more guest speakers, more formality. More structure. Less Humanity. Less fun.

If any of you REALLY believe that's what the Phx reef keeping community wants, then why not go out and start another formal club and try to recruit members? Why is there a desire to trespass on FRAG's success at being nothing more than a successful monthly social gathering?

FRAG has grown from 5-6 people to over 50 per meeting in 4 years.

Was there ever 50 people at a single DMS meeting?

KirstenK proved that success is easy, just focus on getting people together and let the event plan itself. What she did was out of the goodness of her heart, not because anyone elected her, and she did it by standing on principle. She organized the meeting place, always made sure there would be staff to serve us, and that there would be room for our group. This whole thing about the west-siders being "left out" and having to drive farther has always been pure BS in my book. Kirsten did all the leg work getting a meeting place set up every month, and people have the audacity to get butt-hurt because it isn't closer to their house?

When Ryan tried to establish a regular west-side meeting to address the crying, everyone showed up to the first meeting, and then attendance went into the toilet.

Kirsten succeeded where others have failed; so someone PLEASE explain the logic to me in taking the failed practices of DMS and trying to mold the future of FRAG around them?

For the record. I love coming to monthly meetings and hanging out, having a beer, and talking with friends, just as I love standing up and yammering numbers and screaming "sold" every other month for 3 hours; but I will not pay a red cent in dues for that "privilege".

It's simply not that important to me.

I for one thank Kirsten for all her legitimate efforts in the valley reefkeeping community. I bet many of you would be surprised to hear that 90% of these efforts are outside the monthly meetings at Pranksters. She visits more newbies than any other local, and she is has been at every "Parade of Reefs" event.

Anyone who wants to promote successful gatherings of valley reef-keepers should benchmark her practices, instead of trying to twist and re-shape the fruits of her labor to meet your own perception of the "ideal" club experience....

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11488281#post11488281 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by moore_rb [/i]
[B]Hmmm. Desert Marine Society re-hash discussion: take 25 (or 26, or ten-million. I lost count after 3.)

I'm pretty middle of the road as far as discussions about this sort of stuff go, but I get defensive when I hear talk of "converting" FRAG into anything other than what it is....

DMS was a formal club. Elected officers, bylaws, dues, blah blah blah ad nauseum. The club has FAILED, and failed miserably, every time someone has tried to bring it back to life. The reason is simple, and it it is already being exposed (again) in this thread:

The "club" tries to be everything everyone wants. More centralized meeting locations, more guest speakers, more formality. More structure. Less Humanity. Less fun.

If any of you REALLY believe that's what the Phx reef keeping community wants, then why not go out and start another formal club and try to recruit members? Why is there a desire to trespass on FRAG's success at being nothing more than a successful monthly social gathering?

FRAG has grown from 5-6 people to over 50 per meeting in 4 years.

Was there ever 50 people at a single DMS meeting?

KirstenK proved that success is easy, just focus on getting people together and let the event plan itself. What she did was out of the goodness of her heart, not because anyone elected her, and she did it by standing on principle. She organized the meeting place, always made sure there would be staff to serve us, and that there would be room for our group. This whole thing about the west-siders being "left out" and having to drive farther has always been pure BS in my book. Kirsten did all the leg work getting a meeting place set up every month, and people have the audacity to get butt-hurt because it isn't closer to their house?

When Ryan tried to establish a regular west-side meeting to address the crying, everyone showed up to the first meeting, and then attendance went into the toilet.

Kirsten succeeded where others have failed; so someone PLEASE explain the logic to me in taking the failed practices of DMS and trying to mold the future of FRAG around them?

For the record. I love coming to monthly meetings and hanging out, having a beer, and talking with friends, just as I love standing up and yammering numbers and screaming "sold" every other month for 3 hours; but I will not pay a red cent in dues for that "privilege".

It's simply not that important to me.

I for one thank Kirsten for all her legitimate efforts in the valley reefkeeping community. I bet many of you would be surprised to hear that 90% of these efforts are outside the monthly meetings at Pranksters. She visits more newbies than any other local, and she is has been at every "Parade of Reefs" event.

Anyone who wants to promote successful gatherings of valley reef-keepers should benchmark her practices, instead of trying to twist and re-shape the fruits of her labor to meet your own perception of the "ideal" club experience.... [/B][/QUOTE]

Well said, and interesting for those of us that weren't here for DMS.

For me I really like the informal setting. It is fun for me to come and see familiar faces and do some trades and buy some things I don't have. Also to break even once a month is fun but it doesn't happen very often. LOL I personally do not think a formal club would work out well.
Once you set up a business setting it gets ugly easy. This should be fun and beneficial to the hobbyist.

To look at what is there, appreciate it. Yet fail to recognize that like all organizations or people they must mature and grow would seem to be a recipe for stagnation as either. If there are dues or not dues, nothing more than a swap meet every month. Will there be training, if so, what? Who will organize this and make sure it's ready to go when due?

To raise these things in no way minimizes the fantastic job Kirsten has done. Just says we are growing. And to the well we failed once already so why try again crowd my response would be. When you were learning to walk you fell down the first time and crawling around seemed to work pretty well. So why aren't you still on the floor?

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11488545#post11488545 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jerryz [/i]
[B]To look at what is there, appreciate it. Yet fail to recognize that like all organizations or people they must mature and grow would seem to be a recipe for stagnation as either. If there are dues or not dues, nothing more than a swap meet every month. Will there be training, if so, what? Who will organize this and make sure it's ready to go when due?

To raise these things in no way minimizes the fantastic job Kirsten has done. Just says we are growing. And to the well we failed once already so why try again crowd my response would be. When you were learning to walk you fell down the first time and crawling around seemed to work pretty well. So why aren't you still on the floor? [/B][/QUOTE]

so are you saying you will take the group in the direction it needs to go?

as for "we failed once already" crowd, we're only reminding persons who were not in the group that it has been tried already . nothing else.

i would like to see the group move forward like the clubs in Cali.

jerryz since you talk about how to run the group and express so much interest in moving forward, why don't you take things over.

-jesse

<b>i would like to see the group move forward like the clubs in Cali.</b>

OK, so we've progressed to some constructive ideas. How are the clubs in CA run?

In terms of one person running the show, I think that's sort of the point. The person or persons running things ought to be elected by popular vote of FRAG members. Of course, that implies that we need to have a roster to keep track of who is a member. That, in turn, implies that those on the roster should take some sort of ownership in the club by having a vested interest, through something like dues.