how... ug...
 

On the new article:

I'm not sure i understand the difference between grafting and fragging...? Perhaps since the corals "grafted" together have not fused they are not full fledged grafts. I fail to see how this technique differs from fragging and glueing two corals of the same species side by side. every color and species colector out there smashes frags together in a tank. whats the difference?

Cut two halves of Coralimorpharians and fuse them together and I'll buy it. But with LPS coral, it;s just two frags next to eachother since each frag is still a colony of animals. Cut a mouth of echinophyllia in half, fude it with another color morph and that would be what i would call a graft.

i dunno. just wondering what the difference between grafting and glueing closely is.

Hello there,
As far as the difference between just gluing closely and grafting is that I cut the corals and place the open tissue together. MY original goal was to get total soft tissue fusion. MOst of mine usually ended up seperating, but i think as more work is done we can figure out whom grafts easiest to whom, how and where will be answered. My goal is total soft tissue fusion as seen on the wild caught specimens. I think it will all be figured out. We are very much in the same stage of development as the horticulture industry was before the turn of the century. Now hybrids, grafting, and selective breeding are the norm.

Sure, it's the norm for selling something to unwitting individuals. How many people out there are dumbstruck when they finout their parrotfish are mutants and hybrids? I'd say most people detest the fact and are upset they bought into it.
Bringing that type of mentality to the saltwater hobby will trivialize it -even more.

Regardless, how you you identifing these corals to species level? Taking coralite samples and comparing them to text? Asking Veron or Borneman for a positive ID? From what I understand, even then it is difficult, neh impossible, to identify most corals down to a species level. How on earth is it to be expected to graft coral together unless they are very closely related? Is the point to graft similar species? similar genera? what's the point?

Sorry to be so negative, but trivializing our hobby just to sell coral is saddening. (which maybe not your main concern, but i am sure Steve Tyree's first ideas were to frag coral and be a pioneer, not rip off people for 1/8" frag of what he got in wholesale for $25.)

Coral is not a plant, thus why call it part of horticulture? hybrids, grafting, and selective breeding is cute, but it is not something we can do to coral. we cant breed to forms (we can't even breed most coral period), and we can't hybridize (that involves breeding), grafting... well im interested in your attemps on a purely scientific level. I would never want to see that type of thing for sale. if you succeed, that's what it will become. thats why your article is on a hobby site where people pay money to buy such things and not in a scientific publication.

Hi Sixy, I'm sorry, i'm not trying to offend or trivialize anything here. It seems i have yet touch another nerve.

"Regardless, how you you identifing these corals to species level? Taking coralite samples and comparing them to text? Asking Veron or Borneman for a positive ID? From what I understand, even then it is difficult, neh impossible, to identify most corals down to a species level. How on earth is it to be expected to graft coral together unless they are very closely related? Is the point to graft similar species? similar genera? what's the point? "

As far as I.D. ing coral i used Veron's corallite key and used bleached sections of corallite except on the fungia coral. I 've had a few questionable finds and have consulted Borneman on them. I was trying to match up to the species as much as possible. I purposely did a few interspecies xenografts with Goniopora.

"Coral is not a plant, thus why call it part of horticulture? hybrids, grafting, and selective breeding is cute, but it is not something we can do to coral. we cant breed to forms (we can't even breed most coral period), and we can't hybridize (that involves breeding)"

I'm not calling it part of horticulture but there are parralels to industry, distribution, inovation and techniques. In several decades they'll laugh at the time we could only frag and glue. There will be breeding hybridizing, grafting and other techniques in the hobby in the future. There are potentail benefits from grafting, such as different strains of coral, one that has large polyps that can catch food easily but has weak hold fasts grafted to a variety with large encrusting capacity. The potentails are extraordinary and i hope eventaully will lead to novel ideas on how to reseed needed species.

It is often that new ideas or way of doing things meets resistance. But if we are not contantly pushing the envelope we won't fully know the potential of what could come. At the turn of the century there was a horticulturist named Burgess. He was totaly revolutionary in his ability to produce new varieties a plants and including fruits. He got much flack for what he did, but ultimatley proved correct and successful.

interesting you chose 75% "pop" corals to try out. the expensive, hard to come by ones.

Echinophyllia species (aspera?)
Acanthastrea echinata
Acanthastrea lordhowensis

"Also, with many Echinophyllia at my disposal, I grafted several varieties together. The Christmas season was screaming for some red and green fusion, and I was happy to oblige."

You see how you arent really hitting a scientific nerve here?

Hello everybody .Something strange is going on with my xenias. I got a frag with two collars of pumping xenias. One is violet and the other is brown they are touching each other. While one is open and pumping the other is closed and vice versa. Is there bed chemistry going on between them and I should separate them?

"interesting you chose 75% "pop" corals to try out. the expensive, hard to come by ones.

Echinophyllia species (aspera?)
Acanthastrea echinata
Acanthastrea lordhowensis"

Hi Sixy,
The reason i used the pop corals is because my boss really liked them and we didn't really sell much so i had a bunch to play with.

""Also, with many Echinophyllia at my disposal, I grafted several varieties together. The Christmas season was screaming for some red and green fusion, and I was happy to oblige."

You see how you arent really hitting a scientific nerve here?"

Sure that one sentence is not scientific. I beleive you are implying that because i was involved in the commerce side of it my science doesn't have much traction. However it is commerce that compels many scientific discoveries, 3m innovations with plastics, which are then sold, drug companies making discoveries about therapies and in particular investigating potential drugs froms natural sources. Hate it as we may money does make the world go round. And money and commerce push and fund advances in science. Because i was a successful coral grower, my coral wares were then sold which allowed me to spend time experimenting with new techniques.

Hi Jerry,
It is possible that your xenia are entangled in some chemical warfare. It is interesting that only one pumps at a time. I might suggest leaving them together as long as they both are growing and healthy. I'll rack my brain about an explanaition as to why only one pumps at a time. Maybe some one else has a good idea. Would you be able to post a pic, especially a close of the bases.
ROck

there seems to be some good material for a song in this thread. This could prove quite inspiring.

Here they are
[IMG]http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/502/103153P1010196.JPG [/IMG]

Sixy, it is clear in your tone that you have an aversion for what you call "pop" corals, and an overall antagonistic approach to voicing your concerns for what I consider to be a very original article topic. All science begins with observation and I think Justin is doing a good job at that, tinkering around with the concept and techniques of (pseudo-) grafting, figuring out several methods that don't work :D I think if you saw his goniopora video you would appreciate where this coral freak is coming from.
Give hime a break :rollface:

Justin, thanks for the article, as usual, some very interesting ideas. Keep em coming.

Rock!!!
BTW i'm finally working on that Goniopora material.It should be done in a few weeks.

Well-things getting worse, the violet xenia doesn’t open any more…:(

the purple one does look stressed. You may as well remove from the rock, no sense in letting get stressed and die