MArv,

I get an invalid attachment when I try to view those..

edited
 

just edited... hope it works now.. melevsreef has some great info and pictures you can read... I know it helped me when I got started with our zoa dominated tank...

I saw a black stomatella snail in my tank yesterday. I have the white/cream but never saw a black one before. They are suppose to be harmless. I call them helmet heads lol.

As for muchos question I too have had mysterious zoo deaths.
I had colonies I started from 6 polyps grow into over 30 and then all of a sudden melt.
They had that film on them you talked about in another thread.
I have never had nudi's. I do dip all new zoa's and never found one.
The weird thing about that blue/green film disease is that I had 2 colonies on the same rock growing together next to each other.
One colony melted the other is fine. I had them for like 6 months before the 1 melted and it was thriving and getting new polyps before that.
It seems like it's gone away now and no more are melting but it's odd when it happens because I have alot of zoa's and most werent affected.

kass

I've had them close up for unexpected reasons. The latest episode what when I scraped the glass of some pretty long hair-like algea. not your typical GHA, a little thicker. It collected in the micron bag in my sump, and within 2 days most colonies were closed. No other parameters changed, I can only assume the relation. I did a 30% W/C, put in carbon, and broke down and added a skimmer thinking it was something released into the water.

Lost a few individual polyps in the colonies, but the colonies themselves took about a week - week and a half to open again..

xenia wasn't affected, neither was an acanth or platygyra.

Oddly enough, they started getting better from the top of the tank down. the bottom zoanthids were the last to start opening again, taking 5 or more days to reopen then the top zoanthids.

Plenty of flow too, and good top to bottom exchange.

You won't believe this, but I took a visit back to the LFS to see if that pink colony crashed as I knew it would when the 3 spots of BI began to spread. Well, something happened, the store owners decided not to frag it up to save it. Even more strange than that, was the BI stopped in it's tracks without any treatment at all. The 3 spots of BI were no where to be found and all of the zoos in those 3 spots were perfectly fine and healthy. I have never ever heard or seen that happen, never. I was blown away and there is no explanation for it. In the past I have allowed a smaller infected colony to just stay where it was and see if it would fight the BI off itself. Knowing that was nearly impossible as I had witnessed its contiunual growth in the past. So why on earth did this colony fight off the infection, for the lack of a better word, and now appears perfectly normal.

Regarding the sudden onset of BI, I can recall every time I have had it as well as when and what happened when other zoo keepers I know have had it.

1. This has happened to me several times so I know there is something to this. I have received a total of 11 frags or colonies over the years that were covered in this BI or fungus right out the bags. The sellers/shippers I have dealt with are friends whom I trust dearly as I know they would not send me sick zoos. Only 3 of the 11 had major temp shifts of 4 degrees or less, so temp variation wasn't it. It's nothing more than a guess, but I truly believe that these outbreaks are stress induced. Though hardy, zoos can and will suffer trauma in transit. Could the handling, bagging, packing, shipping, cargo hole pressurization, unloading, sorting, packing and loading onto the trucks again and the day long journey to your home be the culprit? I don't know.

2. When I've had outbreaks in my tanks, it was never in my prop tank where the current was much higher than my main reef. Those colonies/frags that were affected in my main reef, were the ones sitting in areas where the current was extremly low. Could it be a lack of current for prolonged periods of time? I don't know.

3. Others have noticed the break out of BI or fungus after agitating the sand bed. Could that be it? I don't know. I just hope someone else has something to share that might be somewhat similar.

They're just guesses.

Mucho

I dunno mucho. I have pretty strong current in my tank.
I have seen a few of mine recover usually when I move them to the bottom of the tank with less flow and light.
The odd one to me is where I had the 2 colonys on the same rock and 1 whole colony died where the other is fine. They were touching each other also.
Sometimes my zoo's do get bumped and fall to the bottom so this stress related thing might have something to it. A few small frags Ive had that were knocked down a few times got it.

kass

Like I said, "They're just guesses.". I want to know as much as the next guy. Just throwing things out there hoping one of you guys can figure it out. I would love to know.

MR

so you guys FW dip zoo's? if you do how long?

Below is a cut-and-pasted post about a zoo dip that I'd like to try on my sick zoos. [B]Does any one know a source for the Lugols Iodine mentioned in the post? [/B]

>>>>Copy-and-pasted from RF, where it was copy-and-pasted from RC

Zoo Dip
I take no credit for this, it's really no big deal to do. All of the items used are most likely underneath your cabinet already. I have performed this for years on hundreds, yes, hundreds of zoos and it has worked every single time. No I'm not being cocky or anything like that, this really and truly works as many RC members have PM'd me directly saying so. No I'm not looking for a that-a-boy or anything, I just see that a lot of reefers have ask about it so I thought I would post it in its own thread.

Each and every zoo that goes into my tank, healthy or not, gets a dip. This dip has worked for most every ailments my zoos have had. Some will require a bit of surgery and in some rare cases where I have received a colony with a very nasty fungus, I have deviated slighlty and placed several drops of Lugols Iodine directly onto the infected colony after a bit of surgery. I see that a lot of people are dealing with the whitish, opaque to yellowish fungus or some sort on your colonies. For some reason this happens alot during shipment and I'm sure a lot of you will concur. The key to saving a colony with this issue is to act immediately. You must remove all of the fungus with tweezers outside of your tank. Now using a very sharp razor blade, cut down and around the entire area that was affected. If you have a large rock and you want to be sure that you have irradicated the problem, remove 2 or 3 rows of good zoos around the area that was infected. Rinse the colony well with tank water using a turkey baster or the like, still outside of your reef, now perform the dip with the dipping brew below. I sent it to someone last week so i just copied and pasted it below.

Here's the dipping brew that I have used and most people on RC are using it now as well. If it is performed as soon as you see the signs in the proper manner, success is always attained.

1. Using a 5 gallon white bucket, add 3 gallons of RO water.
2. Now add 1 or 2 drops of Lugol's Iodine per gallon of RO water. ( I read that using 3-4 drops works better)
3. Set your PH to 8.2
4. Set your water temp. at 78 degrees
5. If you have some Flatworm exit made my Saliferts, add
2 drops per gallon to the RO water to kill any Flatworms

Place the colony in the white bucket right side up. Leaving it there for about 5 minutes. Then grab the rock and invert it and place it in the water 3 inches below the water surface. Now twist the rock as fast as you can in a clockwise and counterclockwise motion for at least a minute. While the rock was sitting still in the RO water, it was killing off all bristle worms, Nudibranchs, flatworms and parasites. It will not kill off any Nudibranch eggs so you will have to inspect the rock for what looks like a tiny white 1/8 of and inch curly white piece of thread. They won't detach from the rock as the sack is very sticky. Inside this egg sack is up to 40 or so eggs just waiting to hatch. If you see one, just remove it with tweezers before placing the rock back into your reef. By the way, once you have finished twisting the rock in the water for a full minute, pull it out the water and dunk it back into the water a few times, splashing and swooshing is good, it dislodges anything that didn't fall off in the twisting motion. You are going to kill off a few copepds as well, but this is ok, as you have tons more already in your reef tank and your sump/fug. The dip will not kill your zoos, trust me, if you do exactly as stated above, you will be fine. If your colony is in declined and has been for some time, it may be too late to save them, but if you always do a dip on the first or second day of the problem, I have had a 99 % success rate at saving my own. I don't care what anyone else says, I know what has and will always work for the above issues. Zoos are all I know and I truly like to help out if and when I can.
Oh, I forgot, once you place the colony back into your reef, make sure they receive some current as they will be a little stressed and might slim a little, but that's ok, they will be fine. Your zoos will open in minutes.Always, ....always run your actinics only for the rest of that day. Actinics will encourage them to open. Try not to introduce any food into the system as well until the following day. On the following day, go back to your normal photoperiod. As I said, the zoos will be a little stressed and your 10 or 12k lighting will only try to encourage them to fully expand when they really don't want to right now because of what they have just experienced. I believe the bright lighting after a dip has and will discourage them from opening as soon. Trust me, you will not kill them my friend.


It would be great if any of you who have tried this would post your results below. I know of several who have emailed or Pm'd me, but I prefer that you mention your experience with the above dip.

Safe reefing everyone

Mucho

PS, I chose Lugols for its medicinal/antiseptic properties. Please remember to wear reef safe gloves. The white bucket will allow you to see everything that you have just killed off. Two drops of Lugols will not hurt or harm the zoos. I use two drops most of the time myself. Best of luck to all of you.

Hobby Experience: 12 years, and one lucky August 2003 TOTM winner,
2. [url]http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/totm/index.htm[/url]
Current Tanks: 70 gallon zoo and ricordea reef


Last edited by MUCHO REEF on 10/13/2004 at 11:16 AM<<<<

Recently, within the last week, I have had a zo colony close up. I really don't know why. When should I start to be concerned about it not being open? 7 Days, 10 days, less, more?

In case anyone is interested, after reading this thread, I decided to change the water flow pattern in the tank a bit, and the polyps have started opening again. They aren't all open yet, but I am seeing some that I haven't seen for a few days.

I had these large pods feeding on some of my zoos one time (luckily it was my first colony). I took the rock out and did a freshwater dip as a hundred of these little critters came scrambling out. The were about this long ___ . Zoos came back in no time. Never had a problem since (knock on wood, I will probably wake up tomorrow now to no zoos).

Toothers the zoa dip you posted was written by Mucho Reef who started this thread.
It does work great for some zoa ailments like nudi's and fungus but this thread was started about a different zoa ailment where they start to melt for no reason. The dip doesnt seem to help it whatever it is but if my zoa's start to close I do still try the dip first.
Since I read Mucho's post about the dip I dip all my new zoa's and have never had nudi's thankfully.
I had a spurt where some of my zoa's started melting but it's stopped now. Some died and some recovered but I did the same thing with all of them so don't know why. Basically I put them on the bottom for a few days until they either died or opened again.
None of mine are melting anymore.

kass

My biggest problem with my zoos it that they are getting small. They open just fine, but the polyp sizes have been shrinking down to 1/8th in on several colonies. They are still reproducing at a moderate/slow level (by morph), but I am obviously doing something wrong as certain morphs (Dark Green all over, yellow all over) are definately not spreading/opening as I expected them to. Pinks (long skirt), and reds are doing fine, but no where near what they are doing in the bigger tanks.

The tank is a 10G Nano with zooanthids and a token colony of red sea and elongata xenia. No other corals. No fish, no other inverts (the snails died after about 8 months)

Parameters are as follows:

PH 7.9 - 8.1
Sal: 1.024 - 1.025
Alk: 3.2
Calc: 350+

The rest of the pertinent parameters are pretty much 0

Lights are a 32W PC 10K+620nm actinic + a 18W NO 50/50

The same colonies are getting big and frisky in the 150 and I have similar (but not the same) water parameters in that tank and less water flow. (I am running a 10G tank with a MJ 1200 @ 320GPH)

Suggestions?

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cknowlto [/i]
[B]Parameters are as follows:

PH 7.9 - 8.1
Sal: 1.024 - 1.025
Alk: 3.2
Calc: 350+

Suggestions? [/B][/QUOTE]

I'm definitely not a zoa expert, so this is just my stab at half-informed advice :) In my experience (I have about 20 frags of zoas), they all seem to do better in bright light. I'm not familiar with running a 10 gallon, so I'm not sure if your lights are considered strong or not.

The other thing I've noticed is that my zoas seem to grow much faster and get bigger with phyto and a high Alk. What unit is your Alk in? I keep mine around 10 dKH and since doing that and feeding phyto 3x a week my zoas have been taking off.

I don't know if the zoas actually use the phyto, but it sure seems to increase the pod population and maybe they grab something in the water.

Brian

PS. On another note, my eagle eye zoas are slowly melting away. They were irritated for a long time by a sand burrowing crab spitting on them, I finally realized this was happening, but it was too late. I've done a zoa dip, but they continue to decline with 1/3 to 1/2 of them dead. Only sign they are sick is not opening up and some black slime on the body of the zoas.

I recently started experiencing the "zoo melt" as well. I've tried Muchos dip (Thanks for all of your info and great threads always Mucho) in case it was nudis...no nudis. They just .....melt.

I also have seen that they seem to get covered in cyano even though there isn't an outbreak throughout the tank of cyano. When I tried to blow it off witha turkey baster- no luck. So I tried with a maxijet 1200--it still didn't come off and the colony contiues to melt. I tried to remove the colony for a dip, but it has grown across 3-4 rocks and the connecting polyps are (apparently not melting!) holding on for dear life. I don't want to rip it off and further stress the only good polyps left. What do you think about treating the tank for cyano? Maybe if I kill this stuff the polyps can come back easier. Has anyone tried this already?

Tasmanian sounds like the mysterious melting disease were talking about.
I don't think it's cyno on them because you can't seem to get it off. It's some kind of dark film on them that looks like algae.
It's the same problem my melting zoa's had but only a few colonies got it here and there.
I saved a few of them by putting them in the shade on the bottom of the tank. Nothing else seemed to work.
I also scraped off the real bad looking polyps from the colony.

kass

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by CirolanidHunter [/i]
[B]PS. On another note, my eagle eye zoas are slowly melting away. They were irritated for a long time by a sand burrowing crab spitting on them, I finally realized this was happening, but it was too late. I've done a zoa dip, but they continue to decline with 1/3 to 1/2 of them dead. Only sign they are sick is not opening up and some black slime on the body of the zoas. [/B][/QUOTE]

I moved my eagle eye zoas to a place away from the sand bed and in total about 1/3 of the small colony was lost. They are now showing new growth and opening up again :D

I also replaced the filters on my RO/DI unit which was exhausted and not pouring 70-100TDS water into the tank seems to have perked things up as well.

Brian

[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/garagebrian/2005JournalPics/11162005Brianeagles.jpg[/IMG]

Well I just joined the"club" lost 2 colonies;a pink bubble gum and a green mean.Both were close to each other,did the dip no positive results.:mad2: Now I have the EE and a nice burgundy colony melting also.:mad2: :( I'm so f%^ frustrated.BTW the colonies were like 4x4(size)

I have had problems with a yellow colony in the past. I havent been able to find anything wrong with it. it gets better grows then dies off again. today it is gone.:( it was high up in my nano and had great water flow. it got stressed due to a knock over. within 2 days I was missing most of the colony. They seem to dissapear overnight. I think flow really made the difference.

my 2cts
Shauna

hiya,

i'm very new in this hobby (tank coming to 5 mnths old) and most
of my corals are zoos. I had a red frag slightly smaller than
palm size that melts away in abt 2 mnths time. This frag
is fr Fiji (I have Indonesia/Philipines zoos as well). Now,
another green/yellow Fiji zoo frag seems to be suffering from
this melting disease as well. Good sign is that the frag
is growing new polyps as the same time. I'm going to try
FW dip with Lugol's sol.

BTW, what is BI as mentioned in the OP?

cheers

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6227715#post6227715 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zephyros [/i]
[B]hiya,

i'm very new in this hobby (tank coming to 5 mnths old) and most
of my corals are zoos. I had a red frag slightly smaller than
palm size that melts away in abt 2 mnths time. This frag
is fr Fiji (I have Indonesia/Philipines zoos as well). Now,
another green/yellow Fiji zoo frag seems to be suffering from
this melting disease as well. Good sign is that the frag
is growing new polyps as the same time. I'm going to try
FW dip with Lugol's sol.

BTW, what is BI as mentioned in the OP?

cheers [/B][/QUOTE]

------post up the info on ur tank, water pram's, lighting, tank mates, a pic if possible ( we like tank shots reguardless:rollface: )

has anyone had ALL their zoos close up at once. i am going thru that right now. all have been down now for about 3 days. i have not a clue why they are doing this. all other corals in the tank are fine. i just cant understand why this is happening. water parameters are in spec and i am in the process of raising the alk from 9.6 to 12.0 . i wonder if the drop in the alk in the past 60 days has anything to do with it ? my calc is 500+ so i am trying to get my alk back in line with my calc. it tested 11.6 60 days ago and 9.6 DKH 2 days ago. that is why im trying to raise it now. anyone else have ALL of their zoo's shut down at once ? im talking about 12 to 15 colonies.

How quickly are your parameters changing? If they are changing to quickly that may exp;ain it. But then again, if all of the other corals are fine... I dont know about that.

they were closed up before i realized that my alk had dropped 2 dkh over the pase 60 days. i dont think that the parameters are the culprit. i think that i have nudi's but i have never seen one. i looked at a zomm in of a macro shot that i took and i see some bugs on 1 of the colonies. i can see 2 antenna and they are about 1/4" long. i think that they are nudi's. trying to figure out how to raise the PH of RO/DI water right now so i can do a dip of all mt colonies.