Another store lost

[SueQ]

Well, I drove by Debbie's Tropicals the other day, first time in 2 weeks, and the store was GUTTED!! :rolleyes: Now I HAVE to go to P'Cola for all my fish needs.

[dxtr]

that is a shame. I was just talking about that fact the other day. 1st aqua works, now debbie's... waterworld charges too much for their livestock (fish mainly). PetCo isn't too bad, however, last time I was in there, their livestock wasn't looking too healthy...

Only Aquaria Dave is left as the mom n pop type fish store. Was actually in there yesterday, tanks looked great and livestock healthy. I guess it's up to us to frequent these fish stores to keep them in business.

Still, sorry to hear about Debbies...

[Mr James]

My store is going to be opening up soon, but it will be in FWB or Destin. That's right, my store. Don't know the name, but it is coming soon.

[60Cubed]

i always wanted to have a store called U NEEK REEF. with the logo having the two words integrated to use only two E's inner-twinned together. think it would be cool looking. but never went far enough to actually get it designed.

[sb1227]

Very cool name. :) Kind of "catchy".

[toolshack]

I wouldn't give PetCO a dime of my money. Their live stock looks horrible and they are a huge seller of puppy farm dogs.

I've been harassing Richard at Waterworld to get some better corals. Hopefully he will pull through.

[FishF00d]

You forgot reefscapes, who for some reason never get anything in. I know they care more about their maintaining tanks around town, but if you are going to have a store you should at least get some stuff in for people to buy. The problem is when they do they are up there in price with waterworld.

Is Reefers still open? They should have never moved to seville square. I liked the store they had before that. I was there last summer at the storage shed(shop). The stuff they had looked good, but it was a little 5x5 room. One of the few places that were getting in ORA frags.

[sb1227]

I liked the old place too, only went a couple of times, but it was nice. I never hear anything about them anymore.

[Mr James]

You know. The Reef Club up in Boston have their own store. I'll dig and find the name. I was there, at the store. Several members went in together and built a small business. They have a regular supply of SWEET corals, a few fish and a few hardgoods. It's a hang-out more or less. Even have a beer fridge in the back if I remember correct.

Anybody interested in such a thing?? We could lease a store front or a warehouse, preferably in FWB, so we don't compete with the other stores in P'cola or Mobile. I'd even move down to FWB or Destin and get a house next door or close by. I have the passion and the willingness to do it, but don't have all the $$$, which is usually the problem. I have lots of ideas if anybody is interested. We could pool our monies together, buy the rest of Tim's store and the supplies from Debbie's Tropicals. We could get some sort of legal agreement together to help govern the business. If you could donate more case than time, we could go that route too. Little does my company know, but I plan to open a business, similar to Dave's in the near future, which means I will take a break from my career for about a year or so. If it doesn't work out, I'll go back. But I plan to have internet sales as retail just won't cut it anymore. Anybody interested in exploring this with me??

[toolshack]

Sounds like a cool idea James. I can donate time, I only work on the weekends from 6pm to 6am, so I can help with stuff during the week.

[Mr James]

It'll be a while before we are at the "work stage". Thanks though and if it lifts off the ground, we'll be looking for help.

[toolshack]

James I'd like to see a store for the Advanced reefer, I'm tired of seeing the same old tired corals.

James do you have any kind of instant messaging we could talk over?

[60Cubed]

pm's are the best for that toolshack. james, pm me back on the #'s if you have them. have more money than time!

[Mr James]

I don't have #'s yet, but am still working towards that. I am new to the business side of the whole thing and that's what I will need assitance with. I plan to move all of my equipment/livestock into the "store" when the time is appropriate. It may have to be out of my garage for a bit until I can get a handle on things.

For instance, Community Coffee is a local business that supplies local businesses with coffee service. All they ask for is that you buy the coffee and they will supply the rest. That is the principle I plan to use in my business and I have a plan on how to do it.

[toolshack]

Sounds interesting James, I need to show up at the next meeting and get to know some of you guys.

[Mr James]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8672772#post8672772 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by toolshack
James I'd like to see a store for the Advanced reefer, I'm tired of seeing the same old tired corals.

James do you have any kind of instant messaging we could talk over?

I don't have IM, but you can PM me or e-mail me at Kattlerancher@yahoo.com, or we could meet up some time.

[Voltekker]

Hi I hope you dont mind that I chime in. Its really a good idea to invest in some business planning software if your serious about starting a business. Ive written some business plans for classes and some ideas ive had and it really helps. If you need a software recomendation feel free to pm me.

[SueQ]

Yeah James. I agree with Voltekker. A detailed biz plan as well as doing some market research prior to spending a penny on the actual biz is key. I can attribute that alone to why my web biz didn't fare to well in the long run. Also helps to talk seriously to other shop owners. Gary used to tell me about all kinds of little behind the scenes things relating directly to running the biz. Still was just a drop in the bucket to what there is to learn about it, but I gained a larger appreciation to what a LFS owner has to deal with. Also need lots of capital!! You've gotta spend money to make money and then have enough in the bank to absorb things like bum wholesalers, airlines messing up shipments, etc. Not trying to discourage you or anything, just take your time and do your homework:)

[toolshack]

I think a good way to slowly bridge into having a fullfledge business would be to set up some large frag tanks. Get some choice sps,ricordia,zioa frags and propagate those suckers. You could start a small website to sell these frags to other reefers locally and through out the country. During this time you could build a client base and network with some wholesalers.

I worked at Water World for a couple months. I got to see lots of the ups and downs about owning a LFS. It's a scary business like SueQ pointed out.

[DrHank]

James, as a small business owner I can tell you that unless you really know what you're doing you can get killed out there. A Biz plan is just the start. Most businesses fail due to wrong location, undercapitalization, poor market research, and bad business management.

Why do we shop on line. Beacuse we can deal with a company with an established track record that can buy sufficient quantity to offer goods that are priced competatively (usually less than the LFS, or business) and still maintain a good profit margin. Thats hard for a small Mom and Pop local business to compete with.

Also in this hobby the individual hobbiest has leverage if he (or she) knows how to use it. I'm working toward a credit for the fish I lost from saltwaterfish.com now. It's well beyond the guarantee period but indications are that I will probably get one. The big companies know the power of Reef Central. I've yet to mention it but can you imagine the impact to their sales if I were to post my e-mail to them on a couple of the forums. If you turn that around, how much damage could one disgrunteled hobbiest (who doesn't know what he's doing and won't listen to you) do when he starts spreading the word not to buy from you for whatever reason.

Unlike Suzi, I am trying to discourage you! I think you're too nice a guy to see turning al hobby that you love into a business that you may hate. I worked in a LFS too and can tell you that it's a bumpy road. Give it some real hard thought. Larry at Fish Biz and his wife became slaves to their business. I wish I had his home number so that I could pass it on. MY final word is be careful!

[sb1227]

Good post, DrHank. I've seen my share of people go down in that business as well. It's definately a gamble.

I always wish the best for anyone willing to try, but it seems that most of the time the loss includes more than just the business. Just more food for thought.

[60Cubed]

well i have to agree and disagree. i agree that owning a business is tough. especially the first few years! but at the same time, risk is the only way you make money in this world. the more you risk the more you make! example: stocks that offer a high yeild, high risk. but if it works the money payout is bigger. i have never been scared to open a business. my attitude is if they can succeed in this business, so can i!! anyone can talk themselves out of anything. that's why most people never risk anything. there are downsides to everything. i mean everything. my glass is half full all the time! know the bad things that can happen. but don't go into it thinking they will. if that's your attitude, don't do it because you have already failed! LMK the #"s james when you come up with them.
lance

[DrHank]

Life is a risk. We all take risks. I just recommend that they be calculated ones. I'd love to see a quality reef shop in this area. There's plenty of money to support it if you can get them to spend. You might get lucky and do wonderfully. I would wish you that luck. Make sure that you study everything fully first. If you think it's worth the risk, and your wife agrees, then go for it.

As a Board Director of the local Chamber of Commerce I can tell you that in the past year and a half I've seen many businesses start up and close within their first six months. Make sure that you have everything planned out before you start. Put together a solid business plan then take it to the bank of your choice. If they agree with you and are willing to lend you start-up money then I'd say go for it.

You might make it on your own with independent financing but you've got a wife and two great kids. Be sure the risk is acceptable and have a back up plan just in case.

Lance, your attitude is why you're successfull and I'm very happy for you. I'm much more conservative and probably wouldn't take the risks you might. My glass is half empty so I'll save some water incase I get thirsty later on and fill it up when I can. I agree with you, but I don't. I'm sure you know what I mean. It's good to hear from you again!

[KADLETZ]

++ or -- budgets!!! most often +++ made a budget for my job It was over $24000, I know ill need another $8000 dollars to make it throu the year. That includes everything, i order what i thought would be enough salt for the year 1 pallet $2000 ill need two, 13 tanks, 3000 GALS %10 WATER CHANGE a week, oh wait just had to treat a tank with copper now i need to do %50 water change. for example. Im lucky to have rich bosses and not a bank to go to with high rates! Learning alot. Do it James ill go to your store!!!

[DrHank]

Chris I'm sure that your 8K deficit will buy a lot anywhere. That's provided you don't have any equipment failure that calls for out of cycle maintenance or replacement. Most independant businessmen are just waiting for rich bosses (investors) to come along. I try to buy where I get the most bang for the buck. Sure I spread some dollars around the local economy. Just don,t try to live on my contribution. Let's see the last time I was at the Gularium was in, oh yea, 1989. Gosh, I sure hope you weren't waiting for me to buy you a burger!

[KADLETZ]

lol, i like you DR HANK

[KADLETZ]

when i say rich bosses i mean more money then me lol!!!

[60Cubed]

just remember 75% of new businesses fail due to lack of or insufficient advertising. one of the biggest mistakes people make with a new business is in advertising dollars. those are the hardest to spend. people spend more on a car than they do on advertising in most cases. EXAMPLE: i moved my wife's business to a new location, she did not advertise from the new location to generate new business. she lost a lot of old business due to the distance we moved her shop. i told her she was making a mistake not advertising. so finally she did. her business is stronger now than it ever has been! we advertised her business when we initially opened in 2002 relentlessly. it was a success. just proving my point. a business only fails if it fails at business! you have to be motivated to succeed. driven for success.

james, i think it's a great idea. heck i might even go in on it!
lance

[FLricordia]

I do printing anyhting from business cards, env letterheads to full color so if anyoine needs anything I can get you a good price and personal attention. I don't do the type setting personally so don't weory bout that part. I just do the printing.
But to the thread. I heard that Debbies-the origional Debbie- weas thinking of reopening her shop. Right noe she has a gift shop or somthing. being a guy, though I drove by there today, it didn't make sense to me what it was exactly/ Knicknacks or something. Wasn't anything practicle anyway, you know, tools, fish supplies, reptiles, playboy mags.
Hopefully she will reopen.
Also, it kind of s*&ks that I have to post for 90 days before I can do trades on here, but I want to do local aonly. I don;t care for shipping so thought I would post some trades here and if I get thrown opff forum so-be-it.
i have these as frags of whatever for shrooms, rics, zoas and any cool softies.

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/8473brownyellowmouths-med.jpg
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/8473yellow_zoas-med.jpg
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/8473Picture_040-med.jpg
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/8473Picture_068-med.jpg
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/8473Picture_337-med.jpg
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/8473Picture_418-med.jpg
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/8473Picture_404-med.jpg
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/8473Picture_390-med.jpg
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/8473Picture_363-med.jpg

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/8473leavemealone-med.jpg
Trade him for woman with boat.

[DrHank]

Too nice for my tank yet but I'm getting there. Next year Mike. Be careful, you could loose on that last trade!

[KADLETZ]

I think the frag tank in your house is a good idea, then start with EBAY no advertising needed people looking for what they want.

[60Cubed]

post a more recent pic of the last animal! not quite as small at present. would like the shroom and the last palys pictured. LMK what i can offer you in trade!?! i have some purple haze palys or lunar eclipse if you are interested in those. they look really similar. you make the call on which ones they are.

http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=15

lance

[FLricordia]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8681247#post8681247 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 60Cubed
post a more recent pic of the last animal! not quite as small at present. would like the shroom and the last palys pictured. LMK what i can offer you in trade!?! i have some purple haze palys or lunar eclipse if you are interested in those. they look really similar. you make the call on which ones they are.

http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=15

lance
Not interested in the purple haze, maybe the lunar, Fl ricordia would do the trick. The last animal I need to be more specific. Woman-bad teeth OK. Bass boat prefered.

[FLricordia]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8681095#post8681095 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KADLETZ
I think the frag tank in your house is a good idea, then start with EBAY no advertising needed people looking for what they want.
Don't want to ship. I could always use money, but not if it means having to ship coral and go though the-did it arrive OK, ebay fees and all that. This is basically for the Fl panhandle reef club trade only. Local. I don't mean the members are local-well not all of them, I mean local trades only.

[FLricordia]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8681089#post8681089 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DrHank
Too nice for my tank yet but I'm getting there. Next year Mike. Be careful, you could loose on that last trade!
OK. INo worry, i wouldn't really trade 10 women for him, well, 7...5...OK, maybe 4, but no less, especially if they don't have boats.

[Mr James]

Thanks everyone for the good insight and all of your opinions, I value them very much.

A couple of things:
1. My store will not be another LFS.
2. The plan for now is that the majority of my business will be service, (Dr. So-n-So wants a 55g reef tank in his office, I provide it to him for a monthly fee.)(Hotel Such-n-Such wants a big tank in their lobby, maybe a freshwater and saltwater tank separately, I'd provide it for a monthly fee.), that's the general plan.
3. Yes, I would have a store with corals and such for sale, maybe some fish and maybe some hardware.
4. I'm not going to quit my career and jump right into this.....yet. 5. This should have been first. My biggest supporter is on my side and she says "Go for it". She is my wife Susan!!
6. My kids will learn how to clean tanks and frag corals by the time they are 5.
7. Note to self: I need to have more kids.
8. Patience and lots of reading and investigating will go into this before I open the doors to what ever I decide to call it.
9. But when I do, (notice I didn't say if), I am going to give it my all.
20. I am patient and realize the full consequences of starting a new career. But thank God I live in America where this dream is possible!!

[DrHank]

Good Luck James!

[SueQ]

Mike-
That last trade is too funny! At least you got him to look all sad and puppy like:D The zoas you hooked me up with are doing great!

James-
Glad Susan is behind you on this. I'll agree with Lance 100% that advertising is CRITICAL to any business sucess. It seems so simple, yet I see people all the time that just don't get it. They've got prime location, maybe they've got a very small, inconspicuous sign, and people don't have a clue that they're there. Having a great financial plan and the discipline to stick to it is also key. As is either knowing accounting skills or being able to find a good accountant. Those were my downfalls, plus not having a biz plan. My advertising was bringing folks in, but at the end of the day if I had money in the bank I was out buying software or worthless computer gadgets that I may or may not have needed. I didn't really have the 'right' accounting skills and didn't find a good accountant until it was too late. Check out the Small Business Bureau's website. They can send you this great little start up package. The tank setup and servicing idea is great! I'm meeting more and more people around here that do that and make $$ doing it!

As far as Ebay goes.... Between their fees just for listing things and the paypal fees when someone buys something, that can quickly erode into your profit margin.

Doc-I think it was the Chamber of Commerce where we used to live that would offer free or low cost biz start up classes. Do they offer that down here?

[liverock]

Having seen hundred of stores come and go in my 30 years of being in the saltwater business let me offer a few ideas.

First, investigate what it takes to get fish/corals/inverts to Fort Walton.

If you plan on buying from the wholesalers, be prepared for high costs and losses.

If you plan on importing your own fish/corals/inverts, be prepared to have plenty of capitol to pay the freight from overseas,the cost of the fish and the US Fish and Wildlife service for inspections, and CITIES permits costs if required.

Plus the nearest designated port <where wildlife can be imported/shipped from> is going to be Tampa, a long drive for you. The fees to import/export have been raised to a point where I do no international business anymore, as it has just become to costly.

Plus the airlines.......I was shipping some rock Monday at United, the agent was pulling his hair out as he had three containers of fish still sitting in the warehouse from Friday that were supposed to fly to Athens, but did not go because Fish and wildlife did not inspect them...for three days....so three containers equals about 150 boxes of fish, that at that point were toast.....who eats that cost? the shipper...

On the flip side, importing is in the same boat. Shipment get bumped/delayed/frozen ect. You still have to pay the freight<hundreds to thousands of dollars> for a shipment of dead/dying fish , that are worthless at that point as even if you save some, they will be in poor shape, and not what you want to sell to customers. So expect to loose a lot of $$$$$ shipping fish.

I have been at the local wholesaler here when he brought in a shipment from the Philippines of 48 boxes of fish. Every one was DOA, was a sad sight, but happens all the time, due to delays and weather. You cannot absorb those kind of losses and survive.....so where does that leave you for livestock? Back to the major wholesalers who can absorb losses, and sell you stock, but at a high price, and a price everybody else gets also.

Your idea of tank maintenance is the best, you can control your costs, and make $$$$ off of making folks tanks look good.

Overhead is the killer of most stores. Cost of rent/electricity/stock/employees simply overrides the slim profit from livestock sales. If you can find a niche, you may be able to survive.

I do not want to paint a dark picture for you, but this is reality in this business. I am sure there are many other folks here at RC that have been there done that, and can offer good insight as to how to survive.

Just a heads up to prepare you for what is in store if you decide to make the plunge....

If I can help you in anyway let me know.

Richard TBS

[60Cubed]

i think what i have are the lunars. come by and check em out. i'll be around today. LMK.
lance

[SueQ]

Great insight Richard!!

[DrHank]

Suzi the local chamber does offer periodic low cost business develpoment courses. Here in Crestview we have the best Chamber of Commerce around. This is the fourth Chamber that I've been a member of but the only one that I've really wanted to become involved with. Our Executive director and staff are great. Over 30% of the members attend our monthly breakfasts (an almost unheard of percentage) which makes for a wonderful networking opportunity. Like everything else in life you get out of it what you're willing to put into it.

[FLricordia]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8683645#post8683645 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 60Cubed
i think what i have are the lunars. come by and check em out. i'll be around today. LMK.
lance
This week is out. Family member in hospital so I head there after work. Maybe next week will be clear.

[Mr James]

TBS answered my post. WOW!! That's for the words and I don't plan to do anything drastic yet. If I win the lotto, I may do something drastic though.

Dr Hank. Does the Chamber of Comm. have any say on the crapolla traffic issues and are there any plans for a loop to be installed around C'view??

[liverock]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8687684#post8687684 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr James
[

Dr Hank. Does the Chamber of Comm. have any say on the crapolla traffic issues and are there any plans for a loop to be installed around C'view?? [/B]


A loop?

Crestview was one motel when I went to Ruckle Junior High back in 1964...things changed a bit?

Richard TBS

[DrHank]

The Chamber and the City Council are seperate entities both are concerned with the current and future traffic problems. There's a meeting in the City Council chambers on Friday, December 15th at 1 PM in reference to an ongoing study on that matter. I believe it's an early step toward the approval of a bypass. Thoughts are that if we can't get the city, county and state to fund the project then it still may be feasable for a toll bypass to be constructed. Sorry but that's about all I know about it at this time. Wayne Harris at the Chamber (682-3212) may know more.

[Mr James]

by liverock
Crestview was one motel when I went to Ruckle Junior High back in 1964...things changed a bit?

Richard TBS

Do we have a Florida Panhandle Reef Club Alumni in out midst?? I am too new to comment on anything older than 1 year old around here and too young to comment on anything past 1970. Welcome Home Richard!! Was Eglin Air Force Base here then??

Richard, are you with Tampa Bay Saltwater?? Are you an originator or other?? One day when I was extremely bored at work (Not here, Ormond Beach rather), I read about the history of TBS and all the regulations you battled with over the years to get where you are now (only to be plagued by Red Tide and Hurricanes). WOW is all I can say. If you are indeed Tampa Bay Saltwater, you have some serious ambition man and deserve some serious kudos!! If you are not, you still get some kudos for admitting your age!! ha ha ha...

Doc, that's more info than Mr Tim Bryant could give me and I thought he was also on the committee. So I guess it wasn't my idea then huh?? Some day I'll have to talk to you some more about this neat little town.

[DrHank]

Tim's the Chamber President!

[liverock]

[QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8688529#post8688529 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr James
[B]Do we have a Florida Panhandle Reef Club Alumni in out midst?? I am too new to comment on anything older than 1 year old around here and too young to comment on anything past 1970. Welcome Home Richard!! Was Eglin Air Force Base here then??

Richard, are you with Tampa Bay Saltwater?? Are you an originator or other?? One day when I was extremely bored at work (Not here, Ormond Beach rather), I read about the history of TBS and all the regulations you battled with over the years to get where you are now (only to be plagued by Red Tide and Hurricanes). WOW is all I can say. If you are indeed Tampa Bay Saltwater, you have some serious ambition man and deserve some serious kudos!! If you are not, you still get some kudos for admitting your age!! ha ha ha...

Well yea....we lived in base housing at 565 Chikopin drive..in FWB,I think it was....Dad was in the missal program at Eglin/Hurlburt Field.

Our house was right on Bens Lake, which was not a lake but saltwater....there was a freshwater stream right behind the house the fed into the bay and I used to catch all kinds of freshwater fish, then just a few steps and it was saltwater, where redfishing, and snatching mullet was GREAT!

But now the woods are all gone there, it is on big lake, I guess the mowed down that area years ago....and there is a little footbridge across my steam going to Camp Robins.

Camp Robins was just across the field where I was a boy scout.....the area back then was really wild, lots of life and woods, it was a killer place to live back then. That experience of living there really put the salt into my veins, and I reall grew to love fishing and the sea. Plus on armed forces day at Eglin they would fire up the giant testing hanger and make it like 20 below zero for the public to walk into, and they had a 50 Cal machine gun set up you could fire, I remember that like yesterday, would jar every bone in your body rat tat tat tat tat...was awesome to a kid.


And Crestview really was one little Motel...that was it!

And yes I am the old guy, 53 now, that started TBS one day many years ago......and I had a partner up until last year when the red tide hit so hard.....he found other things to to as we could not dive for a year....as he had three kids and a wife....so things change...life goes on!

So I am a one man show now, but I really like it, as I can go at my own pace, and personally make every customer happy as I treat each Package sale as my own tank....as that is how I would want to be treated.

I remember Florida as it used to be...before any interstates, everything was little two lane roads and orange groves....now it is sad to see Florida turning into one big subdivision from coast to coast.

But when I get out on the water in the boat with my dog Susie there is much peace to be had on the ocean.....I love what I do...could not do anything else....but if somebody came by with the ambition and $$$$ it takes I could be persuaded to pass on the wetsuit to a young whipper-snapper ready to take the liverock farm into the next generation!!

sea ya
Richard TBS:rollface: :rollface: :rollface:

[DrHank]

Haven't heard the term whipper-snapper used in years. If it will make you feel any younger, my little brother was born in 1952 and I've got him bt almost 4 years. I'll hit 58 in February of next year, God willing.

[trueladyme]

[violation]

[Mr James]

by liverock
but if somebody came by with the ambition and $$$$ it takes I could be persuaded to pass on the wetsuit to a young whipper-snapper ready to take the liverock farm into the next generation!!

Oh man, I'd take it off your hands in no time, but I'll have to win the lotto first. I don't want a fish store in the mall, I want to try different things in this hobby. Aquaculturing liverock would be AWESOME!! Gosh, that would be pretty darned cool to run an operation of it's kind.

Nice to meet you Richard!!