DIY Nano/pico build off Any one?

[tigersax7]

Hello every one,

I once saw a Nano/Pico build off on another forum and I thought I would just poll the NMOK at large to see if there is any interest out there?

The idea is simple we would have a competition for the best DIY nano/pico that would be built/stocked over a pre determined time frame say 6 months and at the end of that time frame a winner would be chosen by a pre selected pannel of judges.

The rules are debatible but for now I sujest two catigories a 5-10 gallon nano, and a 1-5 gallon pico. Contestants can enter one or both catigories but no more then 2 entries per house hold. the tanks have to be DIY in other words you bought/stole/barrowed a small tank and had to piece all the compoents to gether to make it work, NO Aqua Pods or Nano qubes, the point is to show how to make a beutiful nano form cheap/common components to show people new to the hobby that you dont have to have a 50+ gallon to have a salt water tank and be sucessful. The winners and runners up can/will win some sort of prizes (the donated type). All contestants will have to post periodic picks of their progress and prices/sources for their equipment. As far as Live stock goes? what ever your tank can have happily live in it, a huge fish in little tank is not happy. To give you an example the mediator for the forum I mentioned built a 10g SPS tank (crazy4acros, you might like this consept). He drilled the main tank and fit it with an in-tank over flow, had a 10g sump with skimmer, a 75w Metal Halide for light, and 400+ gallons/hour for the return pump. So Skies the limit let your imaginations run amok and above all vote in the pole. Thanks

Jason

[bpd964]

I'll be starting a 5 gallon nano tonight.. how do we sign up?

[tigersax7]

that part is up for debate.....just Pm me with your intentions, ie. plan for that 5 gallon and which catigory you want to be in, and Ill consider that a tenitive rejestration. Thanks for the interest, please vote. thanks

Jason

[tigersax7]

bpd964,

BTW I noticed your from Bridgeport, I hate to say this....but this is a New Mexico Reef Club forum So I will let the club decide if we want to have this be nation wide or just for NM residents or just for club members....sorry I should have put that in the origional post.....keep watching and we will see what happens.

Jason

[crazy4acros]

I have experimented with nanos before and don't mind doing it again. Cool sounds like fun but like you mentioned rules would have to be determined. Maybe sometime after the holidays? I voted "hmmm....I could be persuaded".

[tigersax7]

I agree the contest would likly start after the holidays....like maybe Feb-Mar time frame......thanks for voting....so far one could be persuaded and one No.....

Jason

[seesick]

The great american nano reef buildoff. Sounds like a good time to me. I guess you all can start competing for second place. Someone lay down some rules and prepare to lose. Better bring your A game baby!

[asfullax]

I'm In. I have been thinking about trying my luck. :)

To be fair, I think we need to use same / similar frags. I could probibly contribute some purple digitas, shrooms, and maybe my pulsing singularia in Jan /Feb.

I agree that DIY is manditory, and I would say we put a cap of ~$50 not inclusing the tank. :D

[tigersax7]

ok....let the great debate over the rules begin.....

1. DIY is mandatory, NO pre assembled tank set ups" ie. nano cubes or aqua pods."
2. Contestants must pictures and comments to this thread once per week during the competition.
3. Contestants must supply a price/source list for all components used in their entry.
4. No more then $200 can be spent per each entry, this includes tank set up, lights, pumps, live rock, sand and specimens. Essentially every thing that goes into the tank can cost no more then $200.
5. Use of donated specimens and/or used equipment is not allowed.
6. All contestants will need to keep all receipts/invoices related to their entry.
7. In the event an entry is contested due to violation of the rule of this contest the contestant will need to submit a copy of their receipts to the judging panel for review. The Contest judges will make the final ruling in this mater.
8. Only by a unanimous vote by all three judges can a contestant be disqualified from this competition.
9. The judges for this competition well be comprised of 3 volunteers from NMOK (the first will be My Self...need 2 more)
10. Judges may participate in this contest but will not be allowed to compete, be eligible for prizes or judging. Essentially a judge’s entry is purely for show and in no way affect the final outcome of the competition.
11. This competition will run for 6 months from the official start of this contest (TBD).
12. No more then 2 entries per house hold.
13. There will be 2 classes of competion for this event 1-5 gallon pico contest and the 5.1-10 gallon nano competition.
14. All prizes will be donated.
15. The Judges will be responsible for soliciting the prizes.


Let the voting begin...these rules are just my suggestion....use it as a starting point. so we can finalize the rules. Thanks and happy reefing.

Jason

[xchrisjb]

Crap! I really wish I hadn't seen this thread!

I voted "Maybe", knowing that my wife really would kill me. However, I'm starting to reconsider ...

I hate it when I get like this ... Honestly, my favorite part of the hobby is setting up a new tank. I guess that's why I'm tearing mine down right now ...

[tigersax7]

All NM Folks are welcome....just dont get yours self killed by yyour other half...or me for that matter....thanks for the vote.

Jason

[tigersax7]

So far the voting is showing a good interest for this little project....any more votes? is by the time of the first NMOK meeting in JAN 07 there is a strong enough interest I will bring it to vote at the board meating and later the full club...thanks again....

[asfullax]

Hmm, question that I just came across,

are sumps allowed (assuming they are) but does system size include the sump?

ex: If I have a 10 gallon tank and a 5 gallon sump, would that be a 15 gallon system or a 10?

Also,
As for DIY, I assume powerheads, pumps, ballasts and reflectors are excluded. We just can't buy a premade lighting system, right?

[tigersax7]

DIY...yes you can buy the pump/lights ect...that would be a bit challenging ifyou have to DIY every thing.....not sure on the sump/fuge question...I guess its up for debate....any one else have an opinion on this matter?

Jason

[tigersax7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8684945#post8684945 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tigersax7
ok....let the great debate over the rules begin.....

1. DIY is mandatory, NO pre assembled tank set ups" ie. nano cubes or aqua pods."
2. Contestants must pictures and comments to this thread once per week during the competition.
3. Contestants must supply a price/source list for all components used in their entry.
4. No more then $200 can be spent per each entry, this includes tank set up, lights, pumps, live rock, sand and specimens. Essentially every thing that goes into the tank can cost no more then $200.
5. Use of donated specimens and/or used equipment is not allowed.
6. All contestants will need to keep all receipts/invoices related to their entry.
7. In the event an entry is contested due to violation of the rule of this contest the contestant will need to submit a copy of their receipts to the judging panel for review. The Contest judges will make the final ruling in this mater.
8. Only by a unanimous vote by all three judges can a contestant be disqualified from this competition.
9. The judges for this competition well be comprised of 3 volunteers from NMOK (the first will be My Self...need 2 more)
10. Judges may participate in this contest but will not be allowed to compete, be eligible for prizes or judging. Essentially a judge’s entry is purely for show and in no way affect the final outcome of the competition.
11. This competition will run for 6 months from the official start of this contest (TBD).
12. No more then 2 entries per house hold.
13. There will be 2 classes of competion for this event 1-5 gallon pico contest and the 5.1-10 gallon nano competition.
14. All prizes will be donated.
15. The Judges will be responsible for soliciting the prizes.


Let the voting begin...these rules are just my suggestion....use it as a starting point. so we can finalize the rules. Thanks and happy reefing.

Jason

the first revision to "The Rules"
(Start Revision)

1. DIY is mandatory, NO pre assembled tank set ups" ie. nano cubes or aqua pods." Equipment such as pumps, lights, reflectors, the TANK (ie... a bare tank with no pre-installed equipment), heaters, and plumbing excessories my be purchased for this contest. It will be the contestants responsibility to record the cost/source of purchased equipment.

(End Revision)

[tigersax7]

PLEASE VOTE.....ive noticed that this thread has been viewed 147 time but there is only like 6 votes.....please vote ...you dont even have to post a comment.....the vote will help decide if I will bring this issue to the club in the Jan board meeting....thanks for looking every one.

Jason

[israelnajar]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8687175#post8687175 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by asfullax
Hmm, question that I just came across,

are sumps allowed (assuming they are) but does system size include the sump?

ex: If I have a 10 gallon tank and a 5 gallon sump, would that be a 15 gallon system or a 10?

Also,
As for DIY, I assume powerheads, pumps, ballasts and reflectors are excluded. We just can't buy a premade lighting system, right?

I think the sump/fuge should be counted as 1-5 or 5.1-10 gallons. Since the point of a pico/nano IMO is to keep a stable environtment in such a small amount of water. Would it still be a pico if I had a display of 2 gal and a sump of 50 gal? Just a thought.

Also I voted I could be persuaded.

[israelnajar]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8684945#post8684945 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tigersax7


4. No more then $200 can be spent per each entry, this includes tank set up, lights, pumps, live rock, sand and specimens. Essentially every thing that goes into the tank can cost no more then $200.
5. Use of donated specimens and/or used equipment is not allowed.


I thought the point of DIY was to save money where you could. I think that donated or used equip should be allowed so long as it is not taken from your main display due to an upgrade. IE I want to upgrade and put tunze in my main display and use my maxijet in my DIY.

Frags should be allowed since again the saving money on DIY point.

How are the projects going to be judeged? Purley DIY? Or does it include livestock?

[tigersax7]

The projects will be judges first on overall health of the system then on beauty/diversity of live stock, finaly on over all cost. Bonus points for creativity in the above catigories.

You do bring up a good point about donated equipment/frags ....I will need to come up with the specifics......Good point on the sump....

two rules to consider

1. sumps are allowed but can not have a larger displacement then the main display. Only one sump/fuge per display.

OR

2. Sumps are allowed but the combined water volume can not exceed the max water volume for the class that entry is entered in. For example picos combined volume can not exceed 5 gallons and nanos can not exceed 10 gallons.

[israelnajar]

Maybe used and donated frags should be a percentage of what they cost new. Say a 25 - 50% reduction from the new price.

[xchrisjb]

I was thinking that it might be good to have the rules such that the main display volume determine the entry class. If you want to have a sump or fuge, then I think that's okay as long as the water volume of sump/fuge setup is less than or equal to half of the display. Maybe it would work to say that the total water capacity (when operating) of all water containing vessels attached to the display must be less than half of the main tank. I say "when operating" so that if you wanted to use a 5 gal bucket, but only had 1 gal of water in it it'd be okay ...`

If you had a sump and a HOB powerfilter/fuge then both would contribute to the sump total.

Make sense?

And I'm not sure about how I feel on the use of old equipment. I mean assume I had an old MH setup laying around. Would it be fair to use the MH just 'cause I had it laying around? I guess it depends on what the purpose of the constest is. I don't know ... Perhaps you could use the old equipment you had, but a reduced amount of its estimated value would still count towards the tank's total price. Afterall, it the price limit on what you'd be allowed to spend now, or is it on the TOTAL cost of the tank regardless of when the $ was spent? ...

[israelnajar]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8703092#post8703092 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xchrisjb

And I'm not sure about how I feel on the use of old equipment. I mean assume I had an old MH setup laying around. Would it be fair to use the MH just 'cause I had it laying around?

I say yes since the contest appears that it is going to be judged by health of livestock and total cost. Not on equipment used.

I think that pure DIY should also be considered as well. So if two finalists had the same exact setup but one built the stand, canopy, lighting system, rock, fabricated their own tank. As opposed to just having that stuff lying around. The more DIY intensive project should win. Just my opinion.

[tigersax7]

Good Comments Guys, A lot to think about, keep in mind the rules are in no way final.

Now as far as DIY goes....I personaly think all equipment should be New or at the very least used but purchasd from some one for a good price. The origional inten for this competition is to show people new to the hobby or people thinking of getting into it that you dont have to spend thousands of dollars to have a reef/FO tank, and to give them some ideas. Most of us who have been in this hobby for any length of time start to accumilate extra stuff....I personal could through together a 10 gallon nano w/ five gallon fuge complete with LR, Pumps, a 150w metal Halide over the main display, a 32w PC over the fuge, and fully stock it with fish and coral, just from extra stuff I have laying arround. All I would have to buy is wood for the stand/canopy a few fans and maby one pump.....I imagine most of us have similar lists. Doing it this way dosent show those who may be new or want to get into the hobby what they can get with a little money and creativity.
I leave it up for debate on the issue of used/donated/found equipment. But My position is no. Besides not allowing the use of donated/used/found/extra equipment will level the playing field and make the competition fair for all who decide to enter. We may wnat to allow the uses of purchased used equipment so long as the contestant can show a valid recipt with a fair price for the item....for example paying your budy $10 for a used 150w light set up isent a fair price compaired to thoses who may have to buy a new one. ...make sence? well let the debate continue...remember every one has a voice here. thanks again

Jason

[asfullax]

I think the idea of "valued" equipment is good, most of the pumps and lights I have will be my backup stuff, but they are no where near "great"

one idea, when it starts, all equipment is documented and "e-bay" values for similar equipment is assigned to the setup (after all, these are nano and pico tanks, there shouldent be too much :) ) that total can't exceed $200.

As for the rest of the comp. that is just tallied as we go on.

Oh yeah, I think the same should go with frags. Any frags received or used for free should be written up based on their reefcentral prices WITHOUT shipping. So, a monti cap usually goes for around $10, if I take a 1" from from my system for the nano, that should count as $10.

If I wanted to add my fire and ice zoa, one polyp would count as $15. make sense?

I'm excited, this is gonna be fun!

[gregrunningbird]

Thanks for the inspiration and excitement this discussion has caused!

I view frequently and finally voted.

Could two of us get together and put forth ONE tank as a group effort?

Regarding the new/donated category, I look forward to futher discussion from those who will participate. I understand that one could put together a high-end MH system with beautiful frags from his own aquarium; and yet others might have difficulty putting the basic components, not to mention the livestock, together for under 200 bucks! I would be in the latter category, and yet am excited to see what a high end pico or nano could do! Perhaps we could all be lenient here and 1) try and stay under 200 bucks for all new tank equip and livestock, 2) show the true cost, whether donated or not to the judges, and 3) let the judges have final say regarding the fairness/balance of true cost verses final tank.

Just my 2 cents. more later!

[tigersax7]

Good comments guts keepem comming.....I think Alex's Idea of using EBay cost w/ Shipping might work...After all a person new to the hobby who want to set up a small tank may or may nothave friensds in the hobby and if it were me e-bay would be my first choice for used equipment. Well thats all for now, Anyone else have any thoughts on the matter?...also Anyone willing to be a judge? PM me if you are...thanks and happy reefing.


Jason

[asfullax]

This is just a wild idea, mostly because I would love to see what can be done with top end equipment, but...

How about a third class, 0-10 gallon unlimited price cap, and open this up to the local fish stores? SRC, Coral Island, Emperor, etc... I would love to see the results, and I think it COULD create a friendly competition. The judging would be based entirely on function, looks, creativity, diversity, and of course habitat healthiness.

Of course, according to the bylaws, no prizes could be awarded to any LFS, but I would think that many of us would be visiting more often to see the progress lol. :D

Anyway,

I'm excited, and ready for the start........:D :D :D

[israelnajar]

That sounds like a good idea to me. But why have an unlimited cost and a limited tank. Why not have an unlimited funds and any amount of tank size the LFS wanted?

No one has an opinion on teams for the contest?

[asfullax]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

I would say that teams are fine as long as the single project still conforms to the same rules. example: 2 people still have a $200 cap.

:D

[gregrunningbird]

Your idea of a third grouping is a great idea, I feel. It will allow those with the means to really show their stuff!

As for the unlimited size and cost, the LFSs already have this at their disposal...if they aren't already trying to put their best foot forward to show their skills, a local reef club competition won't encourage them!

However, the LFSs have few, if any nano and picos on display, and a competition with them might be very interesting...AND teach us all a thing or two about small set-ups!

[tigersax7]

A lot of good ideas....I will consider the LFS/Unlimited Funds idea...Im not so sure about it yet though...I think its funner to see what can be done with reisrictions. Personaly I have always found that I am most creative when I have very strict guidlines, or in other words when the imagination is allowed to run wild with out restrictions it can some time s be more of a hinderance then a blessing. Just my thoughts, any others? for now Happy Reefing.

Jason

[tigersax7]

I think Greg is right....Nearly Ever LFS I have ever seen has at least one display tank that shows there skill in the hobby...however I have seen very few nano displays...we could invite them to pertisipate but like judges their enteries will not count against other contestants and they will not be allowed to recieve a prize....think of it as a sorta sub contest where the only prize is reconigition and mady a place on the NMOK website....any thoughts on the mater?

Jason

[israelnajar]

Yes and since they are judges they will probably be able to round up better prizes than us members as a judge.

Greg brings up a good point about LFS not having such small setups.

I have seen one LFS in Lubbock with a nano that was about a liter or so of water. It was sweet. I know it was running for at least 2 months since I visited once every two weeks for two months.

[tigersax7]

I never considerede having people from an LFS Judge the competion...but its a thought? What do you Guys think? we could have some of the judges be from our LFS's and some from the club? or have all the judges be from our LFS's or all From the Club? Any thoughts people?

Jason

[gregrunningbird]

From my beginners point of view...having one judge from a LFS, if they were so interested, would behoove all of us! Not only would it show direct interest in NMOK activities, but it would allow input from, lets face it, the primary contacts most of us have for all reef questions in this area!

On the other hand, with only a few judge spots open, a LFS might feel left out if not asked to judge.

Short straws or coin toss might help here, but I am sure that anyone NOT selected would happily give input via these RC threads anyway! My vote would be TIGERSAX, one LFS contact, and one person from NMOK.

I'd like to focus, too, on more interest in competitors via this thread...of those who have voted, only 1 certainly, 6 maybes...the rest? Further, with so few, one category might only have 1 or 2 people competing anyway! Let's hear it y'all!!! VOTE and give input on this, your opportunity to learn or perfect nano or pico reefing!!!

Any ideas? I hope to drum up more interest at the next NMOK meeting.

[asfullax]

Just so everybody knows, now that I have the wifes approvial (and she may possibly enter in one herself) I am a POSITIVE YES. :) and will be going for a nano <$200 total over 6 months. I know it can be done!

:D

[gregrunningbird]

When I look over this thread, seems to me like there are two categories of people who are writing responses and who will compete in this build-off. Those categories appear to be builders of 1) nano OR pico tanks under 200 bucks and 2) nano OR pico tanks OVER 200 bucks...sky is the limit!

Since those with equipment and livestock stockpiles HAVE the option of entering one OR BOTH possible categories, perhaps these options should be considered.

This competition was not my idea, nor am I attempting to change the original idea of building small tanks for under 200 bucks and HAVE FUN! However, I would like to suggest to those who will enter the competition and/or judge it to discuss this option before all rules are set in stone and the competition begins!

[GreenUku]

I'd be willing to judge since I'm not planning to enter the contest and am a nano keeper.

I agree that categories would be good, like Best Budget Nano, Best DIY Nano, Best Aesthetics, Best Overall. That would get around some of the debate about the rules.

I also think standard 10 gallons would be a good even starting point (and maybe 20 total gallons with sump/refugium).

Here's some links to the Reefs.org Nano build off from last year:

Build-off forum with rules, entries, etc.:

http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=80)

Poll to select the winner, with links to the finalists' tanks:

http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=971660

[GreenUku]

and here's a link to Nano-reefs.com's current nano build-off:

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showforum=61

[tigersax7]

Ok... I know I havent been on in a while but be watching over the next week for the official Rules and possible start dates....I will be brining up theses things in the next NMOK Board meeting, And then possibly to a vote at the Next club meeting. Thanks for all the interest.

Jason

[leena]

Hi All,

I’ve not really commented on the build off topic, but Jason has talked at me of every possible angle, rule change, and possible idea. In the interest of saving a bit of time (and my sanity) I’m going to try to get things moving along here a bit. If this doesn’t work for everyone, it’s not set in stone!

Below is a proposal of the complete rules for the build off. They will be voted on at the next (Jan 19thish? Meeting). If there is a rule you want to change (or add) please state which rule it will be replacing. Word your rule change as you would like to see it, with discussion following. The rules will be voted in or out on a line by line basis at the next meeting. To be voted on a rule must be posted here by no later than the Thursday before the meeting at 8:00pm. You must be at the meeting to vote.

Rules

1. By entering this contest you agree to show good sportsmanship. You agree to help educate others by providing full information and good documentation about the tank you are building, and at the conclusion of this contest understand that you may be asked to move your tank to a public location for display. You understand that you and your entry may be used as a positive example of NMOK.

2. This contest will run for a space of six months, from a start date of Feb. 1st 2007 to an end date of August 1st 2007. Late entries will be allowed, but may be penalized.

3. DIY is mandatory, NO pre assembled tank set ups" ie. nano cubes or aqua pods." Equipment such as pumps, lights, reflectors, the TANK (i.e... a bare tank with no pre-installed equipment), heaters, and plumbing accessories may be purchased for this contest. It will be the contestant’s responsibility to record the cost/source of purchased equipment.

4. All contestants will need to keep all receipts/invoices related to their entry.

5. All contestants must publish on their “thread” a list of where they obtained everything used in the build-off and what the cost was to them. If an item was obtained by means other than retail, an estimated value must also be provided, along with a retail source (and retail price) where that or a similar item could be purchased. Only the actual amount you spent will be counted toward your actual dollar amount. The estimations and retail listings are so that others can use your tank as an example (“Go here, spend THIS, and you too can have a tank that looks like THAT.”).

6. The exception to rule number five is livestock from your own tank. As a gesture of good sportsmanship if you use rare or limited frags from your tank that would be difficult for others in this competition to obtain (ex. Extra-Super-Rare-Thing-I-Traded-My-Mother-For-And –Sell-Online-For-$$$$$$$-For-A-1/16th Inch-Frag), please note that and give an estimated value to be counted toward your actual amount spent. If the judges disagree with your assessment of your livestock, they have the right to open up a dialog with you so that an agreed upon value can be reached.

7. Tanks will be judged in two groups
a) Five gallon total water volume or less.
b) More than five gallons and up to ten gallons of total water volume.

8. You may enter your tank in one or more of the following categories:
a) Spent less than $200
b) Low/No Impact tank
c) Best DIY
d) Best Aesthetics
e) Best Overall
f) Other Themes (Please specify your theme on entering)

8. Judges may participate in this contest, but their individual entries will not be eligible for awards. Judges may participate in group entries, but may not judge their entry, or any entry in direct competition with them.

9. There will be three judges for this competition. In the event a judge enters a part of a group entry, a guest judge or judges may be asked to participate to keep things fair. The three judges will be responsible for obtaining the awards for this competition.

10. A thread titled “(My Name Goes Here) Entry for the Tank Build Off” in the NMOK reef central forum is counted as an entry in this competition. In your first post please state your name and the names of your team members, if any. Also state which group and categories you will enter with this tank, along with a little about your original idea. Please keep one thread per tank.

11. The projects will be judged first on overall health of the system then on beauty/diversity of live stock, and finally on overall cost. Bonus points for creativity and keeping threads updated will be given. If two tanks are judged to be equal preference will be given to the tank with the more complete thread (pictures, water chemistry tests, etc… are all good information to include).

12. To be placed at the close of this competition you must be a NMOK member. If you are considering entering this contest you are strongly encouraged to join the club.

13. A unanimous vote of all three judges is required for disqualification

This was typed out pre-coffee, and reviewed why still blurry eyed. Mistakes and typos are to be expected!
Regards,
Colleen

[asfullax]

Looks awsome to me. Great work :D

Now if our baby would come, I can get started lol...

[conner]

ok, so when will we start and when should i set up my tank?

[rabid frog]

I cant wait for this to start. I have a 1 gallno pico sitting empty in my room. Great motivation to get it started.

[AlleninNM]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8962929#post8962929 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by leena
Hi All,


5. All contestants must publish on their “thread” a list of where they obtained everything used in the build-off and what the cost was to them. If an item was obtained by means other than retail, an estimated value must also be provided, along with a retail source (and retail price) where that or a similar item could be purchased. Only the actual amount you spent will be counted toward your actual dollar amount. The estimations and retail listings are so that others can use your tank as an example (“Go here, spend THIS, and you too can have a tank that looks like THAT.”).



I have a concern about this particular rule. I believe the actual costs, or a reasonable value, should be counted against the $200.00 limit. (Assuming this is one of the categories you intended to compete in.)

By my understanding, one of the reasons we wanted to have this contest was to show others that they can get into the hobby without spending thousands of dollars on a setup and livestock. If we don't count the actual costs or reasonable value against the limit, those who are able to obtain "donated" items would be able to set up tanks that could never be done by the average person interested in starting in the hobby for $200.00 or less. If we are going to have a $200.00 or less category, I believe it should truly be $200.00 in total setup expenses.

Bottom line, I believe rule 6 regarding livestock should also apply to hardware. Any thoughts?

[gregrunningbird]

Adding up the votes at the top of this thread, we only have 3 certain entries, and 7 probablys.

Any way to get a head count again before the NMOK meeting, so we don't have empty or single-entry categories?

Regarding the previous post and the costs involved...IMO, I could not agree more. With the under 200 buck category, all materials need to be added into the final cost, whether donated or bought, in order to have a level playing field.

[asfullax]

Ehh, As I do agree with the $200 thing, I also question as to how far this would go. Rule 6 covers just about everything IN the tank, and I think that the judging will also take those concirns into account. If somebody comes up with a 10 gallon bow with solid cherry wood frame, 250mh pendent, VHO supp, dosing pumps etc... and said it was all donated then thats not fair. BUT I think we are all going to play fair. I can tell you that my main "Donations" will be a converted skimmer as a media reactor (est retail is $59) and a dual 96w compact ballast (est retail $29). Other then that, everything needs to be purchased. I PLAN on spending no more then $100 to try and stay within the $200 even with the stuff around the house, but looking around, I MAY go above that.

My main goal out of this is to have fun, and see how cheap I can do it, if I HAVE to go above the $200, well, then thats what I will do but I will try really hard to stay under $200 even with freebies.

BTW: Has anybody found a cheap 5-7.5 gallon acrylic? Those things are freaking expensive. I may just have to make my own.

Oh Yeah, last thing. Just to make it clear, even though the start date would be this friday, that doesent mean you have to have your tank UP and running, in fact you SHOULDENT. All that means is that you start the process. If it takes you a month to get a tank up, then thats fine, its the documentation, planning and end result that the judges care about. :D

[AlleninNM]

I understand where you are coming from. My issue is that between the reactor and ballast, you have almost 1/2 of the total allowable costs in donated items. That is a pretty good chunk. Someone who is unable to obtain donated items would have to spend the $88.00 just to have a comparable system. They would then have to spend what you anticipate will be another $100.00 to set up the rest of the system. Leaving $12.00 for sand, rock and livestock. Not a particularly viable option.

We may be kidding ourselves if we think we can set up a tank for less than $200.00 for anything other than softies. And I don't have a problem with setting up a soft coral nano. That may not be what others are excited about doing, but if we are going to have a $200.00 category, then it should be $200.00 in actual costs.

At first, I was a little panicked about the start date. I've taken my meds and am now just excited to get this thing going. Do we have an end date for the judging?

[gregrunningbird]

Glad to hear that we are in this for FUN! I do think that different categories will show just what talents we have in NMOK, with the die-hard DIY people, the budget-minded people, and/or the truly capable reefers! Can't wait to witness the creativity and learn a thing or two!

I find it interesting to read the threads from other competitions, especially when a nano goes quickly down the drain. I am quite terrified of this happening to my own little tank! Sad, but there's no way I will miss out on the FUN in the meantime!

Here are my suggestions for additional rules:

1) Bonus points shall be given to the reefer who gets Greg's damsels out of his 55 gal!

2) No entry shall be allowed with any fish named Dory or Nemo.

3) All participants shall drink heavily just before posting otherwise uninteresting posts. Pictures shall be required, slightly out of focus.

4) Any mod resembling or incorporating a bong shall be immediately required in all tanks in competition.

[leena]

Greg - darn it! Do you know that posting those four additional rules (the last two) just added a new memeber to NMOK and got me dragged into a nano team?!?

Allen has a valid concern about the $200 issue.

If someone has a $$$$$ of equipment laying around that are going to use in a $200 entry, it wouldn't be very creative or showing good sportsmanship. Would the judges be able to cite rule one and suggest a re-think or category move in a bad case?

If it were just an open to the public competition I would agree that every penny ever spent by anyone should be counted, but this is a club competition. Jay's been given a MH ballast, I've gotten some frags, and a deal on some equipment I wanted. I've also given away livestock, food and equipment that I paid full retail value for. Maybe someone wouldn't be able to walk into a store and build the same tank for $200, but an active club member should be able to come up with something close....

I don't mind either way - as long as Greg's rule number three is accepted. I just like to turn the reins loose and see where everyone ends up.

Regards

[xchrisjb]

IMO, Alien has it right. I would think the $200 should include EVERYTHING - all expeditures whether for new, retail equip/goods/livestock, used-stuff, and even "donations". Yeah, I agree with Alex that chances are pretty slim that no one will go overboard with allowable donations as it now stands. But still ... The under $200 category should be just that, totally under $200.

Now for the disclaimer ->

My thoughts on this aren't worth a whole lot (anything) since I'm not going to be entering the competition, although I'd really, really like to. I've got my personal dream nano planned out in my mind ... However, I've just got too many things I need on my main tank right now to spend $200 on a nano. (donations will be accepted of course ;) )

[tigersax7]

Suggested Rule Change

Add Category 8g

My tank is worth less than $200


There. Category 8a deals with total cost. Category 8g deals with total worth. Anyone in 8g should automatincally fit in 8a.

For those who plan tp get as much as they can donated/mooched and make a really cool tank go to 8a. Those who really want to see what they can do for less than $200 actual value go to 8g.

Everyone happy?

[israelnajar]

Proposed rule change/amend to rule 4.

4a. All equipment receipts shall be dated after the official start date.
4b. All livestock receipts shall be dated no later than 2 months before the judging date.

4a. This way everyone is given a fair chance at starting and havent been hording the equipment and receipts since the first post of this thread.
4b. This way an Extra-Super-Rare-Thing-I-Traded-My-Mother-For-And –Sell-Online-For-$$$$$$$-For-A-1/16th Inch-Frag which will only has a barely a slight chance to survive in a tank plumbed for constant water changes that are piped from a mile out and 40 feet deep in the ocean, cannot be added at the day before judging in health of that specimen.


Does rule 8a. include marine salt, supplements, food you know the stuff that probably everyone entering the competition has for the use of their non-nano tank they already have?

[asfullax]

Ok, after reading the concerns, I have decided to drop the clear media reactor and go with a 2" PVC pipe, endcaps, valve and a pump. That should bring the cost down to $20ish. Thinking about it, that should be more fun anyway and I don't have to destroy another skimmer. :D

I can go either way about the $200 thing. I am just worried that we may have more categories then entries lol. I say we vote on this Friday and the outcome will be FINAL FINAL FINAL.

Just as an idea about what you could do with $200, here is a simple breakdown. Note the expensive tank and the stand. Anybody could easily use a cheaper 5-10 gallon and no stand and move $40 to something else. I also have 2 high quality power heads added, and I am making a media reactor which could be replaced with a bare bottom and bigger water changes:
Here is my basic breakdown:
Tank: $40ish
Stand: $25
Sand: $10
Rock: $25
Livestock: $45
Media Reactor: $20
Salt: $15
Water: $5
Pumps: $20
total: $200

We shall see if it works, hopefully I can find some smoking deals. :D

gregrunningbird
3) All participants shall drink heavily just before posting otherwise uninteresting posts. Pictures shall be required, slightly out of focus.
I COMPLETLY agree with this.
:rollface:

israelnajar
4a. All equipment receipts shall be dated after the official start date.

This opens a WHOLE can of worms. I would say no because this was never stated before and many of us have been planning and pricing stuff since it was mentioned last year. If this was brought up before the approval last meeting, then yes I would say go ahead. BUT it wasn’t and that may put some people at a BIG disadvantage.

4b. All livestock receipts shall be dated no later than 2 months before the judging date

I agree with the concept on this one but there is a big problem, some of us are planning to cycle the tank for a few weeks. I am going to try a speed cycle but this may not be feasible. Also, this means that if somebody has a problem with the tank / crash / etc... they are automatically kicked out. I think that the judges will be able to spot "instant communities" easily, so I have to nix this one. :( (anyways, we will be posting our progress, so anybody who tries this will be equivalent of pulling their pants down in public.)

Does rule 8a. include marine salt, supplements, food you know the stuff that probably everyone entering the competition has for the use of their non-nano tank they already have?
Well, if we go with 8a and 8g, 8A would not count any supplies we have laying around, 8G, you will need to count that as worth. Really this is a non issue because for a 10 gallon (max size tank) you will go thru a maximum of a 25 gallon mix, and the reef crystals 25 can be found as low as $10. if you count it up, a 25 mix will give you your initial 10 gallons (assuming no rocks, or sand) and you can still perform 12.5% water changes weekly which would easily give you your alk, calc, mag, iodine, etc... So either way, your only looking at $10-15 for all supplements. NOW if you tank is really kick butt, you can do 20% changes or use other supplements.

One item that has NOT come up yet is water test kits. My feeling on this is that they do NOT count towards cost. The reason is because you can get free water checks at any good LFS.

Alex

[israelnajar]

You do bring up very good points.

4a No receipts will be dated before the date of the first post of this thread. Although I still believe that receipts should be dated no earlier than the official start date to give EVERYONE a level playing field, since not everyone knew about this competition since it was first conceived.

4b All livestock receipts shall be dated no later than 2 months before the judging date, unless the entrant has a tank crash within x amount of time from the final judging and restocking falls within the 2 month period . Regarding someones tank crashing, well that is the nature of the hobby. But an exception should be given this event so long the entrant has documented the entire process in his/her thread

Regarding stuff laying around after your argument I completely agree.

Testkits I also completely agree with.

[xchrisjb]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9245896#post9245896 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by asfullax
... so anybody who tries this will be equivalent of pulling their pants down in public ...

Thank you so very much for that lovely mental image ... :hmm5:

[leena]

Why don't we count the cost of electricity while we are at it?!?:rolleyes:

[israelnajar]

Sure why not.

http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/tank_elec_calc.php

[AlleninNM]

I don't have a problem not counting the costs of consumable items. (Salt, water, food, chemicals) It would be difficult to calculate costs anyway, as I am not planning on buying a separate bag of salt for this tank. I will just use what I have and am not sure I could easily figure out how much salt I use for the nano. Ok, I guess I could figure it out, but I'm lazy.

[conner]

well i actually doubt i could set up a nano tank for less than $300, but we'll see...considering this i have a bonus rule 1) conner can spend $500

[israelnajar]

Bonus rule 1a. As long as it is evenly dispursed amongst the other entrants nanos. :)