Help Build My Tank!

[Dastank]

Okay here it goes...

With my new setup, I should be processing around 130 gal of water. At this point in time I'm thinking about an in sump skimmer, but could be talked out of it.

Please give me your opinions about skimmers and what you think I should go with...

[vest0830]

Ok, so the tank is 48" long, 24" wide and 18" deep

Lights and fans are bought.

Skimmer. I like my Euroreef, Bret talks poop about it. I also have the first gen skimmer, and have the orignal pump but it works and does the job just perfectly, I have a pretty heavy fish load IMO.

You had mentioned getting another Seachem pump if I remeber right...right?

Also how about those super sweet oceansmotions revolutions.

Im working on drawing a stand...

dang, im probably as excited as you are Mike.
:lol:

[hot4teacher]

I don't know enough about all the versions and mods to skimmers to offer any advice.

I like my Aqua C Urchin Pro, but I'm certain there are better products out there if you research it and shop around. Space was a big issue for me and in-sump was a deciding factor.

I think before you decide on skimmer, you need to know what sump will it be going in.

Dana

[Dastank]

Well, that's a different story. According to the calculations table, with the flow I'm looking at, my sump needs to be a minimum of 29 gallons. I know that I can build one, but it will probably cost me over 250 for the acrylic to build one the size I want. I could buy a tank or use the glass 55 that I have, but them I'm stuck with those dimensions.

Glass or acrylic I thing I could modify it to accommodate most any skimmer.

[hot4teacher]

Let me throw this in there:

Depending on the height of your stand (internally as well), that will also play a part in what skimmer you can get.

D

[jasalmanza]

If you can accomidate the space I would go with an external skimmer. I have an internal and thought about drilling my sump when I moved the tank, just dont have the heigth inside like dana was saying. you have alot more control of water hieght within the sump (thus raising or lowering your total system volume) with an external. If it's internal you still have the same ability, but the water will be displaced by the skimmer and possibly by whatever you use to raise the skimmer. in my case, if i could relocate my skimmer I would add about 3 gallons to my total system volume. i hope this makes sense...

[vest0830]

Question on the stand Mike.
Do you want a tall stand like mine, or shorter.

And for your sump, I say we build one. It will be EXACTLY what you want and no corners cut. Get some acrylic and we can build you a sump.

[Dastank]

The external skimmer makes perfect sense. Any suggestions on brand?

I'm thinking tall stand, maybe between your and the one I have now.

I'm leaning towards just building a sump. If you’re going to do it, why not do it right!

[vest0830]

Exactly! Lets build a sump!

[vest0830]

Whats the buget on the skimmer? the price difference of external and internal skimmers is quite a bit...

[Dastank]

Well, that's a good question! I would prefer to spend around $300 ish, but I want something that's going to be awesome, so I might have to spend a little more. i.e. I don't know!

[jeffb3t]

The skimmer was the downfall of the stand I have now so the new one is 32 inches tall on the inside so I can get pretty much any skimmer needed for my new system.

[jeffb3t]

If you get your tank up before mine, (which you probably will) I am going to be really upset. But then again, I can learn from your mistakes or vise versa. Have you thought about the closed loop for it yet?

[Dastank]

I don't want to get off the skimmer topic just yet, but I am debating the whole "Oceans Motions," how much flow is enough, one pump or two, Japanese house with small breaker, low heat transfer/no chiller stuff right now.

It's quite the internal battle at this moment!

If you had something like an Oceans Motions how much flow would you need in a 90 gal tank?

[hot4teacher]

Whatever model you decide with X amount of output, buy the next model up. :D

Everytime the wife asks how many fishing poles do you need? You say, "Just one more!" (this works for EVERYTHING!)

[jeffb3t]

I would probably go for a 1500 gph centrifugal pump. Your tank is 48" so 4 to 8 outputs would do you just fine. Plus you will still have your return to the tank as well.

[bllfish]

Hope you do not mind me jumping on your club forum.
Check out this web site. It shows how you can install adjustable baffles if you make your sump so you can change them later if you decide to go with a different skimmer. I am just starting my 30 gallon conversion now.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_3/cav3i1/Baffles/baffles.htm

[Dastank]

Thank for the link billfish!

Try this out for size, sounds a little crazy, but hear me out...

The goal is return pump with no power heads coupled with low energy consumption!

Some of the guys with 90s on the OceansMotions forum are setting their tank up similar to this:

A Reeflo Dart pump, the pumps low rpm, high flow, 2800gph at 4' head w/bypass valve for fuge/etc... in to a Super Squirt that rotates through 4 - 1" lines. Seems like a ton of flow, but you can always run more through the bypass right?

The nice thing is the pump is only 1.4amps/160W

[Dastank]

Also did the calculations and found out I would need a 35 gal or larger sump... I think I can fit that under my tank!

[bllfish]

Sounds a lot like what I am planning. I will run a mag 9.5 from my sump, a 20 gallon tank converted to sump which fits under my stand, to my chiller to an oceans motions squirt. I am converting the 30 gallon to a fuge and since you need a low flow (around 100 gal/ hr) for the fuge I will probably run a smaller mag pump (not sure which and run that to my return. Both pumps will be run external. I will probably have the fuge sitting behind my stand so it will be a shorter run to the OM Squirt. I will be eliminating 3 mj1200s a wavemaker pro and the Aquafuge HOB and its supply pump. My goal is basically the same as yours, plenty of flow, low power consumption, little heat added to the tank and no powerheads in the tank (72 bow).
Make sure your overflow can handle Reeflo Dart pump, 2800gph. I only have 1" lines which I believe at best can provide 900gal/hr flow for the pumps.
Good luck, I will be tagging along.

[vest0830]

So what did you order Mike :D

[Dastank]

Haven't yet, still testing the waters!!!

[jasalmanza]

I liked the dart so much I went with the barracuda.....

[Dastank]

I've heard nothing but good things about the Dart, I'm pretty much sold on it!

[jeffb3t]

So, when are you pulling out that credit card??? Nothing like eye candy at work when it arrives!

[hot4teacher]

Wish I had ALL day at work to research stuff like this! Mike tells me to call back later because he thinks he found a good deal on a pump. :mad:

[vest0830]

lol, mike kept emailing me and sayin "are you there" and I responded instantly...and then he wouldnt respond. You know he was planted into the screen of the computer. :lol:

[jeffb3t]

No kidding. He even has time to draw his tank and stand with sketch up!!!

[jeffb3t]

Oh yeah, Mike, My friend is on the look out for you on 2X4's. I talked with him today. He asked how many and I told him just keep bringing them. I see a stand building work shop at my house in my future....

[Dastank]

The part you guys are missing is the fact that I haven't gotten home till 6:00 each night because I took some time to play durring the day.

[jeffb3t]

Excuses excuses!!!! Be honest... You were playing until 6 every night.

[Dastank]

Here's the design for my stand...

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e304/pine99/StandHood.jpg

Both doors are going to open and I'm not going to have a center post in the front so there should be great access. It means I'll have to do more structurally at the corners and at the top joints, but it can be done.

[jasalmanza]

looks great, if there's anything i can do to help please let me know!

[Dastank]

The same goes for you! When it comes time to start filling that 130 w/rock and stuff I'm available!

[Donstuprich]

That plan looks awesome. When is does the stocking begin?

[hot4teacher]

Dana LIKEY very much!

I think this design works well with the theme we talked about (aged corner brackets, deep color, etc)

This should be done around Sunday? Right?

[vest0830]

dam you. I tried to design the tank in sketch-up.

im still tryin to figure out how to change colors, let alone a wood grain.

[jeffb3t]

See I told you!!! All his time at work is spent designing his stand or researching equipment for it.

[vest0830]

hey, im doing the same thing all day long. your just in the wrong business Jeff...thats all.

[Dastank]

Ok, here's the basics of the stand:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e304/pine99/TankFrame.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e304/pine99/TankFrame2.jpg

With some quality 1/2" plywood on the top and bottom, it should hold a ton...

[hot4teacher]

I like it. If I am correct, are those 4x4's on the 4 corners?

I like the design, however, if it were ME, I would use the same principle with this minor change.

Modification 1:
This might be a pain in the A to notch out the 4x4 to hold the 2 support beams.
http://www.backyardbullet.com/TankFrame2.jpg

Modification 2:
This is what I did and was easy: Just rest the 2 support beams on top of the 4x4 and put a couples screws angled in.
http://www.backyardbullet.com/TankFrame3.jpg

Looking at the length-wise supports that would brace the tank in your design, it seemed that only screws and or brackets would be holding them (and the tank) in place. I really like how you have the short width pieces "notched" into the 4x4", but I would put my money on the long ones to be notched...or look at mod 2 and just have them both resting on top of the 4x4".

Again looking at mod 2, imagine the top platform resting on the four 4x4's. It would take a hell of a lot of something to unmount them and slide the platform off them if that was a concern. Figure 1,000lbs resting on those 4x4's.

Dana

[hot4teacher]

I would pick up one of these. (maybe someone already has one, but it looks like a hell-uv-a tool and does a pro job!)

Put a couple screws going up from the 4x4 into the 2x4 on MY design and you're golden!

http://www.kregtool.com/products/pht/product.php?PRODUCT_ID=30

http://www.kregtool.com/products/pht/product.php?PRODUCT_ID=83

http://216.119.73.43/products/images/prd_83.jpg

Dana

[vest0830]

Im 99% sure they have that at the hobby shop on Kadena. I saw someone else had screws drilled in at 45degree angles, so im sure they have a jig there for that.

and DANGIT. that makes 2 of you that know sketch-up.
im gonna have to sneak my laptop to 'work' and play around wiht this more....

[jeffb3t]

Don't feel bad. I have it on my computer at work and haven't even used it yet. I just use autocad instead. It's harder to use if you want to do 3d but for measurements, it's great. One of these days I will figure out how to use sketchup.

[hot4teacher]

I wonder if I could do a sprint car chassis with that program? :D

[TPS-Dive]

IMO I would want the shorter brace to be notched into the posts or run the full length of the 4x4 posts. The long boards in the center are transfering their load to the shorter brace. I vote for Mod 2 or the original. I agree with Dana, all your force is straight down. The brackets and screws are there to secure the boards together and transfer the load. You should have little torque or side force acting on the stand unless you are trying to slide it around.

[Dastank]

Thanks, that's why I post these here is to help pound out all the details! Now all I need to do is decide how tall I'm going to make the stand...

Might try to pick up some wood today!

[vest0830]

get wood, the metal hobby shop cant be utilized by the average joe which is real retarded.

as for height, from the floor to the bottom of my tank is 41".

[jeffb3t]

IMO, you can go with a lot less wood and still have a stand that will support a car. In actuality, 1x4s have the strength to do the job but added insurance of 2x4s is always nice for piece of mind. Instead of the two 2x4s in the bottom center of the stand, I went with nothing but a plywood sheet. Not much load will be transferred to them anyway. (It is also fiberglass resined to hold water if the sump leaks.) The load is still concentrated on the main 4x4s. For the top, I went with 2x6 laying flat with a 10mm plywood board to ensure the tank is on a flat surface and completely supported. Under the 2x6s I have a 2x4 laying flat and screwed tot he main supports to assist in transferring load and to keep everything level. The design you have will hold a house and over here, wood is big$$$. On a side note, two 2x4s screwed/bolted together is stronger than one 4x4 due to the different grains of the two different boards working together to provide support vice one 4x4 which has the grain together and may have weak spots.

[vest0830]

layin flat as in the 4" part is up...or the 2" part is up?
Ive built many homes in my short 24 years life with my dad and grandfather growning up and never did we lay boards flat unless we were doing decking or anything like that. And that wasnt to carry any load, the joices of the floor were for the load, just like how mike has the stand built. the 2" part is up, and not flat 4" part like I think you might have yours.

I have put my fat butt on a flat 2x4 between 2 saw-hoarses and it bowed to the point where I didnt sit on it too many more times.

Jeff...post pics of your stand, im sorta curious now.

[jeffb3t]

Page 2 of my thread has pics. Granted I do have supports in the center. For mikes particular application, since he won't run center supports, running the 2x4s with the 2" part up will provide the support needed under the 2X6s. The 2x4 center boards he has on the top part of the stand are held by screws only and can support minimal weight in the center. Thus the reason I said to go with 2X6s Or even 2X8s laying flat (6" side up or 8") around the entire edge to increase surface area for a top piece of 1/2" plywood. This will provide a flat surface to support every part of the tank and still help transfer the load to the supports without bowing in the center. I'd draw it in sketch up but CAD is so much easier for me. and I don't have that here.

[jeffb3t]

Ok, wow, I just read what I wrote and even now I am confused. Basically look at my stand frame and remove the two center posts. Same idea I was going for or trying to say.